For Parents Planning for college, academically

gym_dad32608

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This is helpful info too. Just chiming in to say that my daughter is graduating 8th grade this year. We really wanted to send her to the high school her older sister attends, but there was just no way with our commute (about an hour each way) and the training schedule. My daughter is an honor roll student, but I would agree that attempting AP classes and the type of academic schedule my oldest daughter has maintained (non-gymnast) plus 20+ hours of gym and the commute would be near impossible for most kids. It was a hard decision, but we are sending her to a smaller high school that will allow her to take her foreign language online and everything else will be "in person." You are so right. There really is no "ideal" answer.
This has all been very helpful and I am appreciative of all the discussion. We are in a similar situation. Our DD has a 3 hour round trip commute and trains about 25 hours a week. So while I really wish she had the opportunity to attend brick and mortar I just don't really see it. But given that we do have some luxury of time since she is only in 7th I thought we might be able to map out a potential path. Of course as we all know, plans change, its life lol. For us I think we are going to look at one of the sports academies in Florida or see if she attends our local high school for one or two periods before driving to practice and then the rest virtual.
 

LJL07

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One other thing. Get all committments from the brick and mortar school confirmed in writing. When I enrolled my DD in our local high school, I met with the counselor to discuss her schedule and need to do some virtual classes. The counselor talked to the administration and got verbal approval for my DD to take more than the allowed number of virtual classes, two a semester rather than 4 over the 4 year period. That way she carried a full time schedule but had more flexibility timing wise. At the start of her sophomore year, we were informed that she wasn't allowed to take any more virtual classes, having met the number allowed. The counselor was upset but hadn't gotten the agreement in writing so we didn't have anything to work with. I had a very long meeting with the administration laying out the situation, providing evidence of my DD's grades, offering to have her coaches speak with the administrators but they wouldn't bend. So, she ended up carrying a full load at the brick and mortar school which made it really hard.
Geez. Thank you for mentioning this. It just occurred to me the foreign language is really only required for two years, so we could find ourselves in a similar bind. The other thing is that only two foreign languages are available online, so she would have to choose from those two. Ironically it has been relatively easy to negotiate an early dismissal in elementary and middle school, but I feel like level 6/7 can be done with less hours, and the earlier dismissal is more helpful for upper levels when the school schedule is more complicated.
@gym_dad32608 if you are in Florida, I think you’ve got some great options. I know of a few kids who have done some kind of hybrid school for athletes (soccer players) and had a great experience.
 

B&M's mom

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That was true. The middle school was super easy to work with. The high school was not and they had experience with high level athletes as a student a couple of years older than my DD was an Olympic speedskater who routinely left to train in a nearby state. Ironically he and my DD had the same counselor so we both thought that this would be easy to work out. She was super frustrated by the reversal after it had been initially approved.
 

skschlag

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This has all been very helpful and I am appreciative of all the discussion. We are in a similar situation. Our DD has a 3 hour round trip commute and trains about 25 hours a week. So while I really wish she had the opportunity to attend brick and mortar I just don't really see it. But given that we do have some luxury of time since she is only in 7th I thought we might be able to map out a potential path. Of course as we all know, plans change, its life lol. For us I think we are going to look at one of the sports academies in Florida or see if she attends our local high school for one or two periods before driving to practice and then the rest virtual.


This is exactly what my son does. He attends for 2 classes a day, takes 1 online, and leaves early. He has had to take summer online classes each summer to keep up with graduation credits, but that isn't too bad. It is definitely doable. :) Good luck!
 

mommyof1

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My kid is a long way away from any college scholarships but she’s academically gifted - I would personally rather she duel enroll and have an AA (or close to) by graduation without needing to pay for it instead of spending time on AP classes. If by some miracle she ends up with an athletic scholarship, being having most of the AA credits done would limit her NCAA eligibility years?

I would be cautious about community college dual enrollment in place of AP or IB courses for a student who intends to pursue a four-year degree. In my experience, community college courses are a fine substitute for standard high school courses, can help homeschoolers demonstrate that they can succeed in a classroom environment, and are a great way to expand access to college for students who could not otherwise attend, but they do not really substitute for AP/IB or four-year college courses. Some four-year colleges allow high school students to take courses for credit during the summer term or through dual enrollment during the senior year, and I'd encourage this over community college.

Even if a student does not receive full college credit for her AP and IB courses, these courses will help with college admissions. Colleges are looking for students to take the most rigorous high school courses available.

If you are looking to save on two years of college tuition with an AA at high school graduation, will your child graduate college at 19 or 20 and then move on to grad school or a job? I have seen very, very bad things happen when 19-year-olds attend grad school. It's also unlikely that the AA will fulfill the prerequisites for the major, so realistically you're still looking at 3 or 4 years at the 4-year school.
 

MILgymFAM

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I would be cautious about community college dual enrollment in place of AP or IB courses for a student who intends to pursue a four-year degree. In my experience, community college courses are a fine substitute for standard high school courses, can help homeschoolers demonstrate that they can succeed in a classroom environment, and are a great way to expand access to college for students who could not otherwise attend, but they do not really substitute for AP/IB or four-year college courses. Some four-year colleges allow high school students to take courses for credit during the summer term or through dual enrollment during the senior year, and I'd encourage this over community college.

Even if a student does not receive full college credit for her AP and IB courses, these courses will help with college admissions. Colleges are looking for students to take the most rigorous high school courses available.

If you are looking to save on two years of college tuition with an AA at high school graduation, will your child graduate college at 19 or 20 and then move on to grad school or a job? I have seen very, very bad things happen when 19-year-olds attend grad school. It's also unlikely that the AA will fulfill the prerequisites for the major, so realistically you're still looking at 3 or 4 years at the 4-year school.
There are enough generalizations here to make my head spin. Suffice to say that the only universal answer is to research based on your child’s specific situation. My daughter’s elite LAC had their choice of which credits to accept or not, or to accept none, and yet after their provost did his research, it was majority CC DE classes they brought over. The max amount they accept in any form (including AP) and with no hesitation. They not only helped my daughter get in, they made it possible for her to double major with an additional concentration, and be able to study things for fun when she goes abroad. She’s not found her courses to be easier/harder across the board at any of her CCs, 4 year national, or her LAC that she’s attended. Can her experience be writ large to everyone, of course not- no ones can.
 

LJL07

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This is exactly what my son does. He attends for 2 classes a day, takes 1 online, and leaves early. He has had to take summer online classes each summer to keep up with graduation credits, but that isn't too bad. It is definitely doable. :) Good luck!
Do you mind me asking if it is a public or private school? I so wish we had this option!!
 

mommyof1

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There are enough generalizations here to make my head spin. Suffice to say that the only universal answer is to research based on your child’s specific situation. My daughter’s elite LAC had their choice of which credits to accept or not, or to accept none, and yet after their provost did his research, it was majority CC DE classes they brought over. The max amount they accept in any form (including AP) and with no hesitation. They not only helped my daughter get in, they made it possible for her to double major with an additional concentration, and be able to study things for fun when she goes abroad. She’s not found her courses to be easier/harder across the board at any of her CCs, 4 year national, or her LAC that she’s attended. Can her experience be writ large to everyone, of course not- no ones can.

I caveated with "in my experience." I took a number of community college and AP courses in high school and have attended a large elite public university, an elite liberal arts college, and a small selective public university. In my experience, the community college courses were substantially less rigorous than any of the others. The AP courses had the most busy work but covered more content in more depth than the community college courses. The four-year college courses were far superior to the AP and community college courses. Yes, entering college with a lot of credits does open up options, but it's not likely to cut much time off of your enrollment at the four-year school unless the community college and four-year school have an articulation agreement and you have selected your courses carefully.

The AP and IB programs are not just about getting college credits. They are the primary, or only, means of tracking in most high schools, which means that if an academically gifted student wants to interact with other gifted students she needs to be in AP or IB. Our school system does have a dual-enrollment program that leads to an AA at high school graduation, but gifted students are steered towards AP and IB. AP and IB are also a signaling mechanism on college applications. Not that community college courses don't also serve a signaling function, but if it's a choice between community college and AP/IB I'd invest the time in AP/IB with like-minded peers, and teachers and guidance counselors who can help with college admissions.

IIRC, your daughter had access to academic advising far beyond what is available to most public school or home-schooled kids, so I would hesitate to apply her experience to the typical high school student.
 

ReluctantGymMom

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I would be cautious about community college dual enrollment in place of AP or IB courses for a student who intends to pursue a four-year degree. In my experience, community college courses are a fine substitute for standard high school courses, can help homeschoolers demonstrate that they can succeed in a classroom environment, and are a great way to expand access to college for students who could not otherwise attend, but they do not really substitute for AP/IB or four-year college courses. Some four-year colleges allow high school students to take courses for credit during the summer term or through dual enrollment during the senior year, and I'd encourage this over community college.

Even if a student does not receive full college credit for her AP and IB courses, these courses will help with college admissions. Colleges are looking for students to take the most rigorous high school courses available.

If you are looking to save on two years of college tuition with an AA at high school graduation, will your child graduate college at 19 or 20 and then move on to grad school or a job? I have seen very, very bad things happen when 19-year-olds attend grad school. It's also unlikely that the AA will fulfill the prerequisites for the major, so realistically you're still looking at 3 or 4 years at the 4-year school.
We’re in Florida - a lot of the community colleges have a direct transfer to 4 year universities once you complete the AA direct into the junior year with all pre-recs complete (I just did this because I went back to school and wanted to save money).

I’ve watched my friends high schooler be pushed into a full load of AP classes when she doesn’t test well, causing massive anxiety and panic attacks - and in the end she doesn’t even get credit for them, because she bombs on the exams. My kid already has severe anxiety but is likely going to a gifted school next year through to end of middle school - I’m not interested in pushing her in ways I think may cause more harm than good (for my own kid, based on her issues). If she wants to apply to more academically prestigious schools in the future, we’d have to reconsider our plans :) I personally don’t see anything wrong with grad school at 20, and even less wrong with being ready to work at 20.
 

gymgal

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This is not really for the OP since it sounds like they are leaning toward a hybrid option but for others reading or future parents in this situation:
Regarding AP/IB/DE courses, There are many pros and cons in regard to IB/AP/DE and they will largely be dependent on how each is offered in your area. In my state where the CCs and 4yr publics have agreements for transferring of all core courses, DE is by far a better option, especially for non-traditional students who do not have access to in person AP courses and for brick-mortar students who cannot afford 4 years of university tuition. Much of what Mommyof1 talked about is in regards to their own experience, presumably from many years ago and is not indicative of what is currently happening with the AP program in many parts of the country today. Bottom line is that each family needs to evaluate their various local options to determine what will fit best for their own situation.
 

Makenzie530

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umm so i’m in all star cheer and i get nervous because i started going to prep stunts and that scares me it makes my stomach hurt cause i get nervous i might finish this year and then move to gymnastics what is your advice like should i stay in cheer if it scares me or should i just switch to what i want to do???
 

mommyof1

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This is not really for the OP since it sounds like they are leaning toward a hybrid option but for others reading or future parents in this situation:
Regarding AP/IB/DE courses, There are many pros and cons in regard to IB/AP/DE and they will largely be dependent on how each is offered in your area. In my state where the CCs and 4yr publics have agreements for transferring of all core courses, DE is by far a better option, especially for non-traditional students who do not have access to in person AP courses and for brick-mortar students who cannot afford 4 years of university tuition. Much of what Mommyof1 talked about is in regards to their own experience, presumably from many years ago and is not indicative of what is currently happening with the AP program in many parts of the country today. Bottom line is that each family needs to evaluate their various local options to determine what will fit best for their own situation.
Yes, you do need to look at the particulars of the student’s situation. I was responding to a poster with a gifted child, who in our school district and state at the present time would be ill served by dual enrollment unless she wanted to stop at an AA. I was pointing out that the poster’s assumption that AP is a waste of time might be erroneous. Her subsequent statements regarding her child’s preferences make it clear that AP is not for her and that dual enrollment is a viable option given her desire to attend a state school and the existence of articulation agreements. For many students, including my child and her peer group, AP and IB are not a waste of time, but an essential and non-negotiable step towards college acceptance. Our top two state universities will not accept high school graduates who have not taken the most advanced high school courses available. There is a community college program that leads to matriculation at one of the top state universities, but it is not a dual enrollment program.
 

ReluctantGymMom

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This is not really for the OP since it sounds like they are leaning toward a hybrid option but for others reading or future parents in this situation:
Regarding AP/IB/DE courses, There are many pros and cons in regard to IB/AP/DE and they will largely be dependent on how each is offered in your area. In my state where the CCs and 4yr publics have agreements for transferring of all core courses, DE is by far a better option, especially for non-traditional students who do not have access to in person AP courses and for brick-mortar students who cannot afford 4 years of university tuition. Much of what Mommyof1 talked about is in regards to their own experience, presumably from many years ago and is not indicative of what is currently happening with the AP program in many parts of the country today. Bottom line is that each family needs to evaluate their various local options to determine what will fit best for their own situation.
Yep, in our state CCs and 4 year colleges have agreements to transfer all core credits - so you don’t lose anything. If we moved to another state where that wasn’t the case or she had her heart set on a private university, we’d probably push for AP classes, but I see them being pushed blindly into every kid, whether it makes sense for them or not
 
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mommyof1

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Also, keep in mind that it’s not just about receiving transfer credit for all of the community college courses. Does the community college even offer the lower-division courses required for for the student’s major? For both of my college majors, and for the majors my daughter is currently considering, the answer would be no. Again, you have to look at the individual circumstances and not assume that community college is superior just because it’s “real” college.
 

ReluctantGymMom

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Also, keep in mind that it’s not just about receiving transfer credit for all of the community college courses. Does the community college even offer the lower-division courses required for for the student’s major? For both of my college majors, and for the majors my daughter is currently considering, the answer would be no. Again, you have to look at the individual circumstances and not assume that community college is superior just because it’s “real” college.
The ones we’ve looked at satisfy all gen ed requirements, I just did this personally for a degree in psychology - I don’t think CC is superior because it’s real college, I think it depends on the kid - you have more room for error in college classes. Doing badly on an exam but acing everything else can still net you an A, if you’re one of those people who tests badly. My kid likes rigorous classes, but does terribly with timed tests because she panics immediately. If you do well when tested, I’m sure AP classes are a great choice ‍♀️ It’s partially the state we live in, and partially her personality. I was just curious if it would affect number of years of NCAA eligibility
 

gymgal

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Also, keep in mind that it’s not just about receiving transfer credit for all of the community college courses. Does the community college even offer the lower-division courses required for for the student’s major? For both of my college majors, and for the majors my daughter is currently considering, the answer would be no. Again, you have to look at the individual circumstances and not assume that community college is superior just because it’s “real” college.
Not sure this is any different than the AP courses. AP focuses on the same category of courses that most CCs also offer. Sure there will be some majors where a student may not take courses through DE but chances are there is not an AP course for that either. The most popular majors are well represented in most CCs courses. But even so, a student can still utilize DE by getting through all the traditional core courses like freshman comp, 100 level science/math/history, etc.
 
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gym_dad32608

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I certainly dont mind the discussion moving in this manner, because it is part of the broader subject of what to do with my child's (or others on this board) education when they are devoting a large part of their time in pursuit of this sport. I am also in Florida and have been looking at AP versus dual enrollment. From my understanding, since AP exams are standardized and DE is not, the probability of the course being accepted as college credit is better with AP courses (assuming adequate score achieved). But, if you are clearly set on a particular university, then DE might be the better route if they accept those credits. For example I'm in Gainesville, UF accepts most Santa Fe College (our local CC) courses. As many people have stated, it is not a clear cut answer AP versus DE we all have to figure based upon our situation, our child and their goals. Right now, my child has not expressed much interest in UF and seems to be leaning out of state (of course this is pretty early so who knows) so we are targeting her to take AP course when available/appropriate.
 

mommyof1

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Not sure this is any different than the AP courses. AP focuses on the same category of courses that most CCs also offer. Sure there will be some majors where a student may not take courses through DE but chances are there is not an AP course for that either. The most popular majors are well represented in most CCs courses. But even so, a student can still utilize DE by getting through all the traditional core courses like freshman comp, 100 level science/math/history, etc.

This is true, but AP is not usually marketed as a way to avoid years' worth of college tuition the way dual enrollment is.
 

gymyogimom

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Have you considered half time enrollment for high school? There are a lot of academic and non academic benefits to in person school. Is it possible to enroll in a school near her gym?