WAG Texas Dreams vs WOGA and Metroplex

[builtas1]

The gyms you mention have very different tracks within the same gym so it depends on what track you are invited to join.

If you are invited to one of the Dream Team groups, then you will be mostly (or all) coached by Kim and will be headed for successful elite. 85% of gymnasts are not coached on this track at Texas Dreams. Most of the gymnasts that place very well in national competitions are on the Dream Team. In the past four years, I think three or so gymnasts in the JO-track program were moved to the Dream Team program. Usually you join DT when you join the gym. There is a Dream Team 10 group, but most of those gymnasts (but not all) trained elite on Dream Team in the past.

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Wouldn't it be easy if I know the future? I wish I could answer the question about which track we would follow, but I can't, especially when I have multiple children in this sport. As much as I can describe each child's progress/talent/ability currently, situation can change as techniques intensify.

Where did these DT national gymnasts end up at? Are they still competing or are they in college? Did any of them get a full ride? I wonder how many girls had dropped out the DT Elite to be a ordinary Level 10 in TD.
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Up until recently, there wasn't truly an "elite" group at Woga. Valeri had his groups and Laurent had his groups. Now, the elites train together with Laurent and I think there are four gymnasts in that group. Valeri works with USAG.

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Has there any differences in the gymnasts' performance between the 2 groups? Is one group better than the other? Are the girls happy under Valeri's Russian coaching culture?
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I believe all of the 10s and elites at Metroplex are coached by Marnie and Gina, but not the lower levels. There is a small 2-a-day group (by invitation only) where most of the hopes/elites train. Metroplex has a very deep and successful Level 10 program and Marnie and Gina have been successful at Level 10 for maybe ten years (going back to when they were the JO head coaches at Dreams).

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A couple of coaches just left recently, how will this impact Metroplex?

Thanks for all the helpful info. If you know more, please let me know either on-or off-line.

 

[refugee]

The gyms you mention have very different tracks within the same gym so it depends on what track you are invited to join.

If you are invited to one of the Dream Team groups, then you will be mostly (or all) coached by Kim and will be headed for successful elite. 85% of gymnasts are not coached on this track at Texas Dreams. Most of the gymnasts that place very well in national competitions are on the Dream Team. In the past four years, I think three or so gymnasts in the JO-track program were moved to the Dream Team program. Usually you join DT when you join the gym. There is a Dream Team 10 group, but most of those gymnasts (but not all) trained elite on Dream Team in the past.

Good that you ID'd Kim as the coach for the elites. I'll leave for your interpretation the coaching of the JO athletes on the DT. In recent years, quite a few of of the DT Elites have come from outside TD. Years ago, they "promoted" girls from the 2-a-day JO L9/10 group to the DT. More recently, like colleges recruiting down to 9th grade, they have been tagging younger (L7/8) girls for this, to the dismay and frustration of the older girls in the gym. A couple older girls moved up this year, so to speak, but more because their original practice group essentially dissolved.

Up until recently, there wasn't truly an "elite" group at Woga. Valeri had his groups and Laurent had his groups. Now, the elites train together with Laurent and I think there are four gymnasts in that group. Valeri works with USAG.

Therein lies the rub with WOGA (and other gyms following the Russian coaching approach)...your success there depends heavily on which coaches you get, and while girls do change coaches within, it is rare. I know of one girl who had (still has?) a mix of coaches between groups due to temporary coaching changes, but this may have changed, and there was also a recent coach departure here too.

Their belief, is that all coaches are capable of coaching at all levels up to and including elite. While I think there is more stability at WOGA amongst their gymnasts than at many other gyms, I have also heard grumblings from parents when it comes to injury management.

I believe all of the 10s and elites at Metroplex are coached by Marnie and Gina, but not the lower levels. There is a small 2-a-day group (by invitation only) where most of the hopes/elites train. Metroplex has a very deep and successful Level 10 program and Marnie and Gina have been successful at Level 10 for maybe ten years (going back to when they were the JO head coaches at Dreams).

They do have a lot of 10s!!! I believe there are multiple L10 groups (2-a-day program as well as 1-a-day)

The good news is that all of these teams allow you to go to "real" school. Texas public schools are very flexible and all the gyms have kids at every level attending great public schools.

This is dependent on your school district and even your school, as well as what grade you're in. Some schools/districts will not allow for off-campus PE if your sport is offered as a varsity sport (even though club is far more intense). Some off-campus programs excuse you for only one period while others excuse you for more--this depends heavily on the district's understanding of the sport and training rigors. In any case, students need to account for the missed classes with online and/or summer classes. Most schools limit the number of PE credits toward graduation.

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Wouldn't it be easy if I know the future? I wish I could answer the question about which track we would follow, but I can't, especially when I have multiple children in this sport. As much as I can describe each child's progress/talent/ability currently, situation can change as techniques intensify.

Where did these DT national gymnasts end up at? Are they still competing or are they in college? Did any of them get a full ride? I wonder how many girls had dropped out the DT Elite to be a ordinary Level 10 in TD.

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All the DT gymnasts who made Sr National Team over the years also competed in college (or are going to). And several of their athletes who made Jr National Team but not Sr also went on to compete in college. Bailie Key, past Jr NT member (and probable Sr Team member) has already committed to Florida.

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Has there any differences in the gymnasts' performance between the 2 groups? Is one group better than the other? Are the girls happy under Valeri's Russian coaching culture?

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See my note above--that's a recent commentary. More damning is they've had some notable injuries to big names over the years. That said, there seems to be less departure from WOGA for other gyms than elsewhere (no stats...just a feeling)

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A couple of coaches just left recently, how will this impact Metroplex?

Several athletes did follow one coach, including a couple TOPS Team members.

 

[LemonLime]

Where did these DT national gymnasts end up at? Are they still competing or are they in college? Did any of them get a full ride? I wonder how many girls had dropped out the DT Elite to be a ordinary Level 10 in TD.

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Dreams is still a rather young program without a ton of graduates simply because it hasn't had a lot of gymnasts for a lot of years. The older group just graduated from college (Chelsea Davis and Liz Green, plus Tiffany Tolnay and spent her last high school years at Dreams and went on to UGA). The gymnasts who have competed elite and then move to Level 10 are much more common than those that do not - this is true at most every elite gym. At Dreams, the elites move to the DT10 team.

So ... for the elites ... Claire Boyce at UF (elite to 10), Kiana Winston Alabama (national team to 10), Kennedy Baker UF (national team to 10) and new freshmen Peyton Ernst UF (national team), Macy Toronjo UCLA (elite to 10), and Ari Guerra Bama (national team to 10). Madison Cindric also trained elite as a child and is at AZ. Gina Pitts, Ashton Kim, and Katelyn Haworth were elites, but did not compete in NCAA due to injuries. I think Randy Morris will be the first non DT10 gymnast to compete NCAA on a full ride. She just verballed to Bowling Green.

When Marnie and Gina were JO head coaches and before there was a DT10, Dreams sent Llomincia Hall (LSU), Rachel Spicer (UF), Jordan Moore (Bama) and Liz Green (UF) to the NCAA. Liz and Jordan were former elites.

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Up until recently, there wasn't truly an "elite" group at Woga. Valeri had his groups and Laurent had his groups. Now, the elites train together with Laurent and I think there are four gymnasts in that group. Valeri works with USAG.

Has there any differences in the gymnasts' performance between the 2 groups? Is one group better than the other? Are the girls happy under Valeri's Russian coaching culture?

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No. They all do well. Among MANY elites ... Carly and Hollie were Evgeny's. Valeri coached Nastia and Katelyn. Laurent coaches Alyssa and Madison. All were equally assisted by Natalia, Natasha, Cecile, and Megan. The groups do about the same at JO - regardless of coach.

 

[Jenny]

So anyone wanting to go elite at TD needs to get taken into the DT straight off - not much moving up later on. Even if on daytime training . I remember some one going a few years ago hoping for elite and it didn't happen, and I fact they had to repeat a level there because the standard was so high they wouldn't move her up until she had really solid skills for the next level.

 

[bogwoppit]

So anyone wanting to go elite at TD needs to get taken into the DT straight off - not much moving up later on. Even if on daytime training . I remember some one going a few years ago hoping for elite and it didn't happen, and I fact they had to repeat a level there because the standard was so high they wouldn't move her up until she had really solid skills for the next level.

and then she quit.

 

[duyetanh]

That is sad.

 

[DefiniteMaybe]

All three of these gyms have a variety of coaches and coaching styles and ever-changing programs, so you really never know how things will go regardless of your choice. All three have a good percentage of successful gymnasts as well as many grumbling parents. My understanding is that Metroplex has very much modeled their program after Texas Dreams in the last year or two, if that matters. I hear that Woga takes a very "Russian" approach, though I'm not sure exactly what that means.
Having multiple kids in the sport complicates things as well, since what is best for one may not be best for another.
Good luck! Hope you are able to find out everything you need to know.

 

[munchkin3]

Russian approach means that everyone stays on the same track....unless there is a student that clearly is waaaay above the rest, and that student will get special development.......

 

[bogwoppit]

Russian approach means that everyone stays on the same track....unless there is a student that clearly is waaaay above the rest, and that student will get special development.......

Sounds like a Settlers of Catan game.

 

[builtas1]

Good that you ID'd Kim as the coach for the elites.

Several athletes did follow one coach, including a couple TOPS Team members.

What gym did they end up with? Can anyone tell what the reason is for the departure or is it too emotional to even discuss?

 

[builtas1]

All three of these gyms have a variety of coaches and coaching styles and ever-changing programs, so you really never know how things will go regardless of your choice. All three have a good percentage of successful gymnasts as well as many grumbling parents. My understanding is that Metroplex has very much modeled their program after Texas Dreams in the last year or two, if that matters. I hear that Woga takes a very "Russian" approach, though I'm not sure exactly what that means.
Having multiple kids in the sport complicates things as well, since what is best for one may not be best for another.
Good luck! Hope you are able to find out everything you need to know.

No, I haven't. So, is there a bottom line difference between TD and Metroplex, if not, why would one parent choose one and not the other? (This thread seems to focus more on these 2 gyms and less on WOGA besides mentioning the fact that WOGA uses the "Russian" approach).

 

[munchkin3]

Just remember that what is good for one kid, may not be good for another......different styles appeal to different personalities in kids.

 

[CMA25]

What gym did they end up with? Can anyone tell what the reason is for the departure or is it too emotional to even discuss?

They moved to United Elite in Rockwall.

 

[GYM0M]

What gym did they end up with? Can anyone tell what the reason is for the departure or is it too emotional to even discuss?

United Elite in Rockwall. The girls followed the coach. The coach left, from what I've heard, essentially for better opportunitie$. for the same reasons any of us would change positions!! Lol

 

[DefiniteMaybe]

No, I haven't. So, is there a bottom line difference between TD and Metroplex, if not, why would one parent choose one and not the other? (This thread seems to focus more on these 2 gyms and less on WOGA besides mentioning the fact that WOGA uses the "Russian" approach).

I really think both TD and Metroplex have basically the same model, but I'm sure there are lots of differences within that model. One of them may be better for one kid, while the other might be better for another kid. Unfortunately, you can't really know how either will work out for your kids until you are there. And since it seems everyone is scared of becoming a "gym hopper," you're in the unfortunate position of making a BIG decision based on very limited information. Some families move to Texas for one of these gyms but end up moving to another.
I would suggest you talk to the gyms you're interested in, and get as much information as possible before you make the decision. Maybe have your girls try all three. Talk to the coaches. Ask lots of questions. But even then, you just never know. There are so many factors that will play into how your kids are trained, what "group" they're in, who coaches them, etc.

 

[builtas1]

I really think both TD and Metroplex have basically the same model, but I'm sure there are lots of differences within that model. One of them may be better for one kid, while the other might be better for another kid. Unfortunately, you can't really know how either will work out for your kids until you are there. And since it seems everyone is scared of becoming a "gym hopper," you're in the unfortunate position of making a BIG decision based on very limited information. Some families move to Texas for one of these gyms but end up moving to another.
I would suggest you talk to the gyms you're interested in, and get as much information as possible before you make the decision. Maybe have your girls try all three. Talk to the coaches. Ask lots of questions. But even then, you just never know. There are so many factors that will play into how your kids are trained, what "group" they're in, who coaches them, etc.

That's pretty much what I figure. Here is a good question that's on my mind: Of the upper level (or elite) gymnasts you personally know, can you tell how happy they are with the coaches and/or gym and what gym they belong to? If anyone can help me to compile gymnast experiences of from some of these gyms, that would be very valuable.

 

[CMA25]

How old are your daughters and what level? Unless your daughters are very young and high scoring, they will not be picked for the elite training squads.

As many people have mentioned, training varies widely depending on which training squad you are placed. You can not pick a gym based on how other people feel about the gym. All gyms have people who are happy, otherwise they wouldn't be in business.

 

[builtas1]

How old are your daughters and what level? Unless your daughters are very young and high scoring, they will not be picked for the elite training squads.

As many people have mentioned, training varies widely depending on which training squad you are placed. You can not pick a gym based on how other people feel about the gym. All gyms have people who are happy, otherwise they wouldn't be in business.

Unfortunately for us, quite a few upper level girls have left because of how unhappy they were with the coaches who often berated them. Several more have contemplated about leaving, again, because of the coaching style. Departure happens everywhere, but I feel like it occurs much more frequent in our gym. It is why I want to find out the general dynamic of the upper level coaches, whether they provide the positive atmosphere or not. Any thoughts or comments?

 

[LemonLime]

I don't think TD and Metroplex are similar at all? They are both great programs and both encourage real school, but the organization is different.

Metroplex is an afternoon program with a small number of gymnasts in 2-a-days. There are JO gymnasts and elite gymnasts in both tracks, but generally the 2-a-day program is for elites. Marnie and Gina coach all Level 10 and up.

Dream Team 10, younger Dream Team, and Dream Team is a 2-a-day program which is coached by Kim Zmeskal. The am and pm groups of optionals (not 2-a-day) through Level 10 are coached by different coaches.

Metroplex goes to developmental camp. Texas Dreams does not. Metroplex does hopes and tops. Texas Dreams does not.

Metroplex had its first 3 elites this year (in recent memory, they have had many others in the past), while Texas Dreams has had one of the largest qualified-elite programs in the country. The 3 from Metroplex also did JO Level 10 very successfully this year, while the Dreams elites did not participate in Level 10 this year.

 

[LemonLime]

I just noticed that Metroplex did not do tops this year.