Parents 2 years Achievement gymnastics?

[Dundjinnx]

Hi, I am new to the forums and am not a gymnastic guru by any means. My daughter has been in gymnastics for about 5 years starting with tumbling and working her way up to level 4 gymnastics. Last year was our first year of her going to competitions and I was caught off guard by her whole team doing achievement, while all the other teams at the events did placement. The HC's told us he just wanted everyone to have time to adjust to competitions before putting them on the spot to actually compete. That and the fact that our team dwarfed any other team at the meets. We had I believe 31 girls in our level 4 group, where most teams showed up with maybe 10 total.

Well now it is the second year of competition and the level 5 skills moved down, so most of the girls, my DD included, stayed at level 4. A little frustrating for everyone, but it happens. We again have 30+ girls in our level 4 team. Some of our old ones quit, some went to other gyms, a few moved down from 5, then a handful joined from other gyms. This year the HC decided to split them into 4A and 4P though. The only girls who were put on 4P are the old 5's and the girls that came over from other gyms after last season. The HC said they were already doing placement at their old gyms and are used to it. All the girls from our existing 4A team have to wait until the season starts to score a 9.5 on a single event or a 35 all around in order to be moved to the 4P group. The HC said he doesn't want the girls to be in P unless they have a chance of placing, so as to not upset them.

I am really frustrated with the setup at this point. My daughter really likes gymnastics and I could care less were she places in meets as long as she is having fun, trying her best, and learn some life lessons. But putting her in a 2nd year of achievement is not acceptable. A life lesson isn't you get credit for just showing up or we will take it easy on you if we don't think you can handle real work. With the achievements last year she walked out of every meet with a nice set of ribbons and a medal like the other 30 girls on her team. To me, she didn't know what she did better, worse, or the same as others. She didn't know how she would rank against anyone else, nor have a drive to work harder to overcome something.

So I finally get to my question. Am I just not seeing things the right way and achievement is a good thing? Or is the gym's HC leading us down the wrong path?

 

[Seeker]

Hmmmm....I've never even heard of 'achievement' as an option. I've been to a lot of meets and I have never seen a team participate in that way. I would be frustrated as well and my DD would not really thrive in the "A" track.

I guess I don't see the point or the goal of going that way, at especially considering 1) they have the experience from doing it last year and 2) your DD wants/needs to compete. Seems like it's could be a moneymaking plan for the gym (team fees, meet fees, etc). I would not like it either.

 

[htimcj]

Where are you or what program are you involved in? All of the meets I have been to you don't get a choice on placement or achievement. Once you start compete to old level 4 it is all placement with the exception of the Judge's Cup. Now level old level 3 ONLY did placement around here.

 

[Fliptwisttumble]

While I see your point, I'm not sure achievement in and of itself is a bad thing. Where we are, ages 7 and 8 can compete invitationally, but do not get scores, regardless of their level. They get a sticker, gold, silver, bronze or merit, depending on what range of scores they achieved, but do not find out their score.

So DD was the only 8 year old competing L7 at a meet, got two golds, and bronze and a silver. At her other two meets she competed against one other girl. I suspect in both instances she would have come in second AA, but she doesn't know that, nor does she need to. The intention is to get used to competition, the nerves,adrenaline, etc. without the added pressure of the scores. We have liked it. Now at 9 she is entering her first year of full on competition, and I think she's ready.

But I agree that competitive gymnastics is just that - competitive. For some that bronze, 7th place, gold or whatever will motivate them. And while I'm not used to the US scoring system, it would seem that a 9.5 is a pret high bar to reach to make the move. Does it change if/when she is ready for L5..... Ie there is no achievement there?

 

[GymMom67]

My DD competed old Level 3 achievement last year (that is the only option at that level in our state). There were a couple of invitational meets we went to that did placement and they were so much more fun. This year, she is competing new Level 3. We had our first meet yesterday and we are all so glad she is competing for placement now. There were a few gyms at the meet that had some of their Level 3's as achievement, and I was looking at the scores for the Level 4's this afternoon to check on a friend's daughter, and there were a few gyms who had their 4's as achievement as well. I'm so glad our gym doesn't do that. I don't blame you for feeling frustrated.

 

[happychaos]

I would prefer competing for placement also. It is, after all, a COMPETITION. There are things to be learned by both winning and not winning (my DD has been in both situations). My DD is motivated to make small corrections and pay attention to details at practice because she likes to be on the podium! IMO, the point of USAG JO is to be competitive! If parents don't want that for their kids, there are other options.

 

[Jenny]

how will she know her scores? How will she know if she is close to getting her 9.5/ 35 aa. Do the coaches get the scores?

I notice that some Achievement scores do show up on mymeetscores
http://www.mymeetscores.com/meet.pl?meetid=16066551&pb=N&ts=&level=4A

Is it possible for you to get the scores and share them with her after each meet so she can see where she is. Sounds like she is doing well to move to new level 4. I think at that level she would want to know how she is doing. I would ask the coaches how close they think she is to moving to placement. And enjoy!

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

Here in Ontario, girls only have the option of achievement until they turn 9 years old. At that point it is only placement. My dd really hated the achievement certificates.

 

[Dundjinnx]

Thanks for everyone's feedback. We are located in central Texas in the US. My daughter is 11. She does get her scores in achievement, but she doesn't see anyone else's. Nor does she know how she ranks in comparison to others.

 

[Fliptwisttumble]

At 11, I think they should be able to handle placement, regardless of their level.

 

[GYM0M]

Some of her meets may be listed on mymeetscores.com. That might give you an idea in how she is ranking in comparison.

 

[Quadqueen]

I've never heard of "achievement," but I agree that this has to be frustrating for your DD, especially at 11 years old. In my daughter's several years of competing, we went to one meet where they only handed out envelopes with ribbons based on their scores (blue for a 9, red for 8.5+, etc.) but did not announce placements. It seemed like such a letdown to her after the competition.

 

[lhmom]

I have not heard of achievement v. placement before now. It was not presented as an option when my DD started. At 11, I would think your daughter was more than capable of handling competing for placement.

 

[juststartingout]

I would want my daughter to compete too. I think competing gives the gymnast more accountability. Last season my daughter was new to competition. At her first meet she placed third. After that I saw a fire light in her and she started working so much harder and performing so much cleaner because she wanted to be on the top of that pyramid. She didn't really get it till then. Your daughter is older so maybe she already gets it but even at her age she will know what little things she really needs to work on.

 

[emorymom]

I don't see how she is not competing. She should be movitivated to go out there and earn 9.5 or 35AA, right? I don't see why this is an issue. Once she is competitive she will be entered in a way that allows her to place. It occurred to me that this might be partly about money. And indeed a quick google showed that at least some meets charge less for girls entering as Achievement. So from coach's point of view, not only does he potentially avoid negative association with competition in his girls, but he doesn't have to pay for awards his kids are not going to get.

 

[ac7179]

I understand the coach's position (and yours, as well).

In placement, they only award the top half. In Texas, you have some very competitive competitions. If your daughter is not scoring 9.5 or 35 plus all-around, she may go home with nothing. As a matter of fact, she may go home with nothing even with those scores. My daughter had a 9.65 at one competition, and she was one place away for not even getting a ribbon for that. I've been at a meet where there have been 10s given out, multiple times. If a kid isn't scoring 9.5 or 35.00, it would be disheartening to compete with the 38.5 AA kid at meets.

Achievement is still competing. They are working to improve their scores and hopefully get all blue ribbons. I know some very succesful gyms compete their lower levels achievement. Texas Dreams is one that I saw last year, and they have the jr. national champion this year, so it's not an indicator of future success, I don't think.

 

[Natasha]

I would encourage you to encourage your daughter to compete against herself, which is really who she should be primarily competing against. As long as she knows what scores she receives, she is still competing. Her goal can be to improve each time (not just the score but the skills, etc). My dd is an optional level gymnast and at every meet she is first and foremost competing against herself. We live in an area where there are not a lot of optional level gymnasts, so at small meets, there may not be much competition to compete against. At those meets, getting on the podium is not much of a reward, but getting a personal high score is. OTOH, when we go to out of state meets, she is in a very tough age group against power-house gyms and girls who have been training many more hours for more years and she competes against herself for an entirely different reason, because the likelihood of her placing well is slim. So, at those meets, if she hits a personal best, she still comes away feeling like she met her goal.

 

[LizzieLac]

In our state, we have two kinds of meets. "Local meets" or "invitationals." Local meets are acheivement meets. Same judges, you get judged the same way and scored the same way. But when the meet is over you get ribbons. Blue for 9.0 and above, red for 8.0 and above and so on. There are no placements and no medals. These meets are very often used as an opportunity to get in front of a judge and do your routine before states, or if you just moved up to a new level. It is still very valuable in the course of developing as a gymnast. Being in front of a judge is being in front of a judge and the nerves and adrenaline are the same (I believe).

Invitationals are exactly what everyone has described, placement, medals, and so on. These meets are "cooler" because of the bling and all, but I guess I look at it like this. At level 4 a gymnast is really at the beginning of her career and there will be LOTS of the invitational meets down the road, so it may not be as important to have medals and placement. I believe the HC is trying to instill in the girls that they focus on their development and being competent in front of the judges and not on their placement or how they compare to others. Particularly becuase they have a long road ahead in this sport.