WAG 8th grade Verbal recruit

[Deleted member D3987]

Change only happens when people are incented to change or they are penalized in a meaningful way if they don't change. Club coaches have no incentive to change this in the short term. In fact their short term incentives are the opposite.

Trying to do their best for a given athlete and family, prestige and therefore money for their business, power, relationships with college coaches, these are pressures not to fix the problem. the only ones who can fix it are the NCAA, with stricter rules and painful sanctions to Div 1 programs who cheat. Club owners are not in the position to fix it, though yes they are up their elbows in the process.

They could as a group give some feedback to the NCAA but as you can see from Dunno's reaction (assuming he is representative) that's not likely to happen. They don't have any short term incentives to change it.

just how presumptious can one be? most of us disagree with early recruitment. go back and read my previous posts as to how many are actually involved. geesh.

 

[bookworm]

I think a lot of this current discussion is now just semantics....college says "we don't verbal middle schoolers" and the gymnast plans to "graduate early' so technically not a middle schooler, but a rising 9th grader....I think there's just a lot more behind the scenes than people know....

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I'm glad that you could get all those "you are wrongs" out if your system before you reluctantly admitted I was right on the last two points. I agree you help other parents in here. But anyone who dares to give any criticism of USAG or anything we see happening in the "system" and you come out with guns blazing saying we are dumb parents who don't know anything.

I'm not wrong on any of the points I made. I also don't disagree with your comments about a lot if the great work that is done. Organizations that can only respond to criticism by trying to squash the discussion or tell anyone who dares to speak up that they are too dumb or too ignorant to have a valuable opinion, well peruse the history books...

There is a problem with early recruiting in this sport. It is not good for any of these K through 6th graders.

It is not kids coming home from camp with stories.

you've been here long enough to understand what i write. i don't reluctantly admit anything. i tell it like it is. black and white. and yes i come out with guns blazing. and no, i don't say "dumb parents". where are you getting this crap from?

you are WRONG on all but 2. and unfortunately, i can't go in to details because i would have to name names and colleges. i'm not going to do that.

suffice, the problem is not as BIG as everyone is making it out to be. it's less that 2% of our industry. the majority are against early recruiting. a movement is underway as all this is being discussed. there are many clubs now not letting these coaches in their gyms. and they won't return their phone calls or emails or texts. i know of what i speak and you don't cause you're not in the "clubbie".

yes, i know about the Hunter thing. no, i will not elaborate. it's not my place. it will work itself out.

and USA Gymnastics can't do a thing about it. they don't like early recruiting either. and they could make all the recommendations that they want...and the 2% still won't listen. and there is a lot of other stuff they don't like either. but they work diligently to improve the state of our affairs. every day and sometimes 7 days a week. again, you wouldn't know this cause you're not a "clubbie".

and there ARE kids coming home from camp with stories. you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I think a lot of this current discussion is now just semantics....college says "we don't verbal middle schoolers" and the gymnast plans to "graduate early' so technically not a middle schooler, but a rising 9th grader....I think there's just a lot more behind the scenes than people know....

that's right!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

OK, I am also very confused now, too. I know of many girls who announced verbal commitments this past summer and they had just finished their freshman years.(will graduate in 2017) Of course the colleges don't promote this, as it is my understanding these are verbal, non-binding commitments between the athletes and coaches, not the university. But it has been my understanding that these commitments are almost always honored by the coaches, as it would harm their reputation with future recruits to rescind them. Are we/they all confused?!

you only hear about the few that actually make it from the time they verbal until they sign on the dotted line. none of this speaks to the couple hundred every year that don't make it for one reason or another. and some of them have already harmed their own reputations...and frankly, my dear, they don't give a damn. but there are a couple that lost their jobs because of it. and no, i won't name names. that would be improper for me to do so.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

hey folks, i made a mistake. Steve has triplets at Deveaus. i knew that but mistyped. sorry Steve. and thank you to you know who you are that corrected me.

 

[Midwestmommy]

I do know what I am talking about. Try to discredit me all you want, I am used to that tactic and just don't let myself get bullied by it. I stopped caring when you tried to do that once when you blasted me for knowing nothing about healthcare or the insurance system in the U.S and criticizing me for being a liberal. You were totally wrong on all three counts. And yes you blast people who dare to disagree with you (and I don't mean blasting their ideas which is fair game). yea sure I can probably get a presumptuous as times but don't think I will ever be as presumptuous as you are about other people when they dare to disagree with you or criticize something they see happening.

 

[GymMomXcel]

Oy.

 

[wandrewsjr]

you only hear about the few that actually make it from the time they verbal until they sign on the dotted line. none of this speaks to the couple hundred every year that don't make it for one reason or another. and some of them have already harmed their own reputations...and frankly, my dear, they don't give a damn. but there are a couple that lost their jobs because of it. and no, i won't name names. that would be improper for me to do so.

Very disheartening to hear, dunno. What would you consider to be the current "generally accepted age as ok" to verbally commit an athlete? Summer between freshman and sophomore year?

 

[bookworm]

you only hear about the few that actually make it from the time they verbal until they sign on the dotted line. none of this speaks to the couple hundred every year that don't make it for one reason or another..

Uh, the "few" and the "couple hundred"? I'm hoping the first statement is woefully under and the second is woefully over the actual numbers....I'm thinking we would have heard more about this is if "a couple hundred" Level 10s who verballed before their senior year weren't getting their scholarships...especially if it was happening on an annual basis....I will grant you that there are girls that aren't signing the NLIs they they they would, but I'm skeptical that the figure is hundreds every year.

I just don't want this type of info to discourage the families with girls still hoping to compete in college....

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i understand. just a little hyperbole. but there are a lot.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Very disheartening to hear, dunno. What would you consider to be the current "generally accepted age as ok" to verbally commit an athlete? Summer between freshman and sophomore year?

between sophomore and junior year. my experience with my own, as well as other athletes, has been they pretty much know what they want at that time. and i can't tell you how many verballed and changed their mind right at signing day. it's crazy i tell you.

and then there are the college coaches that 'string' the kids along. we joke about 'twofers'...or when the coach can get 2 athletes for the price of one cause they strung them along all the way to signing day leaving no other choices for them to go somewhere else. it can be a dirty game.

but then you have club coaches that don't tell the college coaches that their kid is lazy, nothing but problems, doesn't come to practice OR is seriously injured. the college gets them and they never compete. this is happening more frequently also.

the whole process is out of whack. there is much more to this than early recruiting. trust me.

 

[profmom]

Just keep in mind that you will not hear about all the kids who have an verbal agreement in one place and end up on scholarship somewhere else, or end up having left gymnastics by the time they start college. I would guess that most girls who get verbal offers because they are solid L10s by 9th grade end up somewhere that works out for them if they stay in the sport, get good grades, and stay healthy.

While I agree that the practice of offering verbal agreements should be regulated better by NCAA, this is by far not the worst thing that NCAA is doing or not doing right now. A lot of young people, many of whom are young men of color, are getting screwed by the system and no one seems to give a damn about them. If you really want to hate on college sports, I recommend Sports Illustrated's expose on Oklahoma's football program published in 2013. Trust me when I say that Oklahoma is not the only program they could have put under the microscope and gotten this kind of story.

 

[NYG]

While I agree, college football recruiting is at a totally different level, with runners etc, this particular event at Oklahoma State Univeristy (OSU) has for the most part fallen apart. As the two "whistle blowers" have been discreditied with quite a bit of their provided information. The University of North Carolina should be in hot water, but since they are a proven commedity to the NCAA revenue stream they probably get a slap on the wrist. The NCAA should be removed or have a total overhaul. Their restriction are silly in a lot of areas and they can be very selective as to which Universities receive actualy punishments vs those that get a slap on the wrist.


http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11214389/oklahoma-state-football-investigation

 

[Fijiwater]

Well then I guess there's no need to start sending my 3rd grader to college gym camps. lol Would these early verbals get bumped out or forgotten if someone like Simone or Kyla wanted to attend that college and they were already "committed" to a bunch of early recruits?

 

[Midwestmommy]

I think M. Nichols publicly announced about a year ago her verbal commit to Oklahoma about a year ago (early in her soph year)... How much earlier, if any, the verbal offer was made and was verbally accepted, who knows... Well some people probably do, but it's not public.

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

Well then I guess there's no need to start sending my 3rd grader to college gym camps. lol Would these early verbals get bumped out or forgotten if someone like Simone or Kyla wanted to attend that college and they were already "committed" to a bunch of early recruits?

Oh that's a good question. I have been following this thread because it is interesting to me. It's also something I know very little about being from the great white north and all.

 

[gymgal]

Well then I guess there's no need to start sending my 3rd grader to college gym camps. lol Would these early verbals get bumped out or forgotten if someone like Simone or Kyla wanted to attend that college and they were already "committed" to a bunch of early recruits?

I am sure this does happen. But there are other avenues to giving the bumped gymnasts funds to attend the school - academic, grants, etc. The money is there if the school wants you bad enough. She just wouldn't be on athletic scholarship. And sometimes that's not a bad thing as it is less likely to be pulled from you, as long as you keep your grades high.

 

[bookworm]

Well they're at it again....Auburn just verballed a kid who has barely set foot in a high school class (2018 grad)...a kid from Hills who didn't compete all last year but is "trying for elite"...and we shouldn't be surprised at Auburn as their coach used to be an assistant at Utah , where they supposedly abhor the early recruiting as well

 

[motigymnasticsmom]

Didn't Auburn's long time coaches retire? Now, I can mark Auburn off my DD's college list? (sigh)lol