MAG Back Hip Circle Help - 5 year old

[SuperDad7]

Hello Gymnastics coaches,

I'm a new coach and a retired rec gymnast . I have been coaching a 4-5 year old boys kinder class, and there is one particular kid who is pretty advanced. No fear, and pretty much goes for any skill I teach. Also pretty good strength. Thinking of having him get checked for pre-team at the end of the season.

About a month ago, he got his back hip circle on bars. At first they were alright. Never finished in front support, but made it around. But lately, I've been noticing that after the cast, when bringing the hips back to the bar, he kinda bends his arms and goes on his stomach and then circles, instead of resting on his hips, which kind off kills his speed. Can kinda look like a pull over from a stomach high chin up. When he doesn't bend his arms, he doesn't make it around, and instead, just drops straight down.

We tried a few drills, assuming all he needs is to keep his arms straight, however, with limited time on bars for a kinder class thats once a week, it's hard for him to maintain anything really. His older sister is competitive at another gym and dad mentioned they have a Tumbl Track bar at home so not sure if its because of that.

Has anybody seen kids do back hip circles with their stomaches or similar and have been able to fix it?

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

First thing I would do is isolate the BHC from the cast. Ie, he just holds a tight position and you spin him around the bar, and all he has to do is stay tight and keep arms straight.

I'd also look at how he transitions from his cast to his BHC. The power doesn't come from the legs and feet coming down and forward; it comes from the chest dropping back. He may be waiting too long to drop the chest and shoulders back.

 

[raenndrops]

Another possibility is that based on anatomy, he could have been practicing at home and banged something against the bars after the cast that didn't feel the greatest and is now a little gunshy.

 

[SuperDad7]

First thing I would do is isolate the BHC from the cast. Ie, he just holds a tight position and you spin him around the bar, and all he has to do is stay tight and keep arms straight.

I'd also look at how he transitions from his cast to his BHC. The power doesn't come from the legs and feet coming down and forward; it comes from the chest dropping back. He may be waiting too long to drop the chest and shoulders back.

That’s it. When he transitions from the cast to hip circle, that’s when he bends arms and drops to his stomach instead of his hips while falling back. It goes pretty fast tho which is why I didnt really notice until I really payed attention.

Im wondering if it might be because he only does one cast before circling around? Other boys i coach do 3 to 4 before completing the circle so I’m wondering if that could help keep focus on hips?

Do you have any tips on teaching the concept of staying *tight* to little ones? They can do hollow holds on floor and can apply it to like push ups or even handstand flatbacks but some events like bars, I find I dont get through to them.

 

[HopefulGymnast]

I'm not a coach but it sounds like he's not dropping his shoulders back, but instead bending his arms as a way of coming down. This is probably also less scary for some kids, so I can get how that'd happen.
The way I explain staying tight when I help friends in adult gym is "if I try and pry them apart or move them they shouldn't move". I usually do it by actually trying. Like "Can I push against your arm? See, now it moved. Try to keep it so it'll stay in place when I push. See, that's staying tight"
For the concept of a tight core, I've taken somebody to bars and done short hollow and arch hangs ()

I think spotting him through the movement slowly may help him understand the shape and movement better. Perhaps the "cast - drop back to mat" drill that's also done for clear hips could also help him?
But I guess I'll leave the further answering to the coaches as they actually know what they're talking about .

 

[Dahlialover]

Just a heads up, a BHC is a bonus skill in level 3 boys. Now would be the appropriate time for him to be evaluated for team. Good luck!

 

[SuperDad7]

Just a heads up, a BHC is a bonus skill in level 3 boys. Now would be the appropriate time for him to be evaluated for team. Good luck!

Really? Men’s head Coach at our gym (Canada, Ontario) is unsure as he doesn’t have a long hang pull over. He can still jump up to chin up and pull over tho which i think is pretty good for 5. I dont want to bring this up to parents before being sure he’d be a serious candidate.

And his back hip circles have been getting better! The more he focuses on shifting wrists and getting up to front support, the more I notice a hollow body when he circles! Still bent arms tho but with 20 minutes on bars once a week, still pretty good.

 

[SuperDad7]

I'm not a coach but it sounds like he's not dropping his shoulders back, but instead bending his arms as a way of coming down. This is probably also less scary for some kids, so I can get how that'd happen.
The way I explain staying tight when I help friends in adult gym is "if I try and pry them apart or move them they shouldn't move". I usually do it by actually trying. Like "Can I push against your arm? See, now it moved. Try to keep it so it'll stay in place when I push. See, that's staying tight"
For the concept of a tight core, I've taken somebody to bars and done short hollow and arch hangs ()

I think spotting him through the movement slowly may help him understand the shape and movement better. Perhaps the "cast - drop back to mat" drill that's also done for clear hips could also help him?
But I guess I'll leave the further answering to the coaches as they actually know what they're talking about .

Thank you so much! This has helped! In a once a week class time is crucial and we were able to do some heavy spotting practices and some on his own. there’s a difference for sure! Staying tight is starting to become comfortable for the kids!

 

[Dahlialover]

Really? Men’s head Coach at our gym (Canada, Ontario) is unsure as he doesn’t have a long hang pull over. He can still jump up to chin up and pull over tho which i think is pretty good for 5. I dont want to bring this up to parents before being sure he’d be a serious candidate.

And his back hip circles have been getting better! The more he focuses on shifting wrists and getting up to front support, the more I notice a hollow body when he circles! Still bent arms tho but with 20 minutes on bars once a week, still pretty good.

I’m in the US. Our competition season doesn’t start until January, so a kid who can do a BHC in July should be good to go by January, no problem. But our introductory boys competition level is very easy, so any reasonably fit kid with the ability to follow directions can do it in 6 months if they are practicing 2x/week.

 

[SuperDad7]

I’d like to thank you all for replying!

2 of my kids have now their back hip circles with (semi straight) arms and a nice hollow body that finishes in front support (or over rotation lol)

The one I mentioned in particular has been moved to Pre-Team

Thanks for all the feedback!

 

[HopefulGymnast]

Thank you so much! This has helped! I

I'm very curious which information or which drills really helped. Glad to hear it was helpful though.

 

[SuperDad7]

I'm very curious which information or which drills really helped. Glad to hear it was helpful though.

Spotting and freezing, while performing the skill in slow motion, correcting every single form issue while in movement.

Cast to fall on back on mat. A lot of hollow body holds and a lot of kid-friendly abreviations for staying tight.

Also practicing front support and levering.

 

[SuperDad7]

I'm very curious which information or which drills really helped. Glad to hear it was helpful though.

+
What also helped was like you mentioned, trying to pull apart the feet to explain the notion of staying tight, and pushing on the hands.

That mixed with me just slowly spinning around the bar many times made their little brains comfortable with the the feeling of falling back.

 

[HopefulGymnast]

That mixed with me just slowly spinning around the bar many times made their little brains comfortable with the the feeling of falling back.

I wish I could do that with the adults that i train with and help out, haha. Sadly they're all at least as big as me so that's not gonna work.
glad it helped though

 

[SuperDad7]

I wish I could do that with the adults that i train with and help out, haha. Sadly they're all at least as big as me so that's not gonna work.
glad it helped though

Ugh i cant even imagine your frustration haha! I think, once u can fall back after the cast, it's all about care strength and keeping ur hips, to upper thighs on the bar. If one can fall back, but have their hips dropping, it might be lack of momentum from the cast, or lack of hollow body, which both require core strength.

I'm a teenage kindergym coach ex-level 3 gymnast lol. take my advice lightly and feel free to add if i missed something.

 

[HopefulGymnast]

Ugh i cant even imagine your frustration haha! I think, once u can fall back after the cast, it's all about care strength and keeping ur hips, to upper thighs on the bar. If one can fall back, but have their hips dropping, it might be lack of momentum from the cast, or lack of hollow body, which both require core strength.

I'm a teenage kindergym coach ex-level 3 gymnast lol. take my advice lightly and feel free to add if i missed something.

I think the main issue they're having is fear. Stopping after the cast, not dropping the shoulders back, etc because of fear. Unfortunately all I can do is encourage them to keep trying at this point. The technical corrections are there by now, now they just need to get used to it. Honestly though, a lot of people at their age won't try gymnastics at all so it's already impressive they're doing this. (I started at 24, I'm now 27. But they are all parents and a bit older than me so that's imo really impressive.)

PS. I am working on clear hip myself, that's where I got the cast drop drill from. I also do cast to multiple hip circles to work on my speed, my record is at least 4 hip circles from a single cast.

 

[SuperDad7]

I think the main issue they're having is fear. Stopping after the cast, not dropping the shoulders back, etc because of fear. Unfortunately all I can do is encourage them to keep trying at this point. The technical corrections are there by now, now they just need to get used to it. Honestly though, a lot of people at their age won't try gymnastics at all so it's already impressive they're doing this. (I started at 24, I'm now 27. But they are all parents and a bit older than me so that's imo really impressive.)

PS. I am working on clear hip myself, that's where I got the cast drop drill from. I also do cast to multiple hip circles to work on my speed, my record is at least 4 hip circles from a single cast.

4 is insane! I did 2 by accident once that’s it lol! Your incredible! And so is everyone in your class!

Do you have any tips on teaching the cast? Some if my little ones can barely get their hips off the bar. And sometimes when they do, its to bend their arms into their chest. I think teaching a cast to an adult my transition to a 5 year old?

 

[HopefulGymnast]

Do you have any tips on teaching the cast? Some if my little ones can barely get their hips off the bar. And sometimes when they do, its to bend their arms into their chest. I think teaching a cast to an adult my transition to a 5 year old?

I have a few things. For one it's just doing it a lot. Another thing is: not too many instructions at once. There's a lot to be said and worked on in a cast, but you can't focus on it all at once. Some things you can try.
- "Push on the bar": for some it helps to tell them they really need to push down the bar when they cast. (Though I've read that some kids can interpret push as bending and unbending the arms, so be careful with that)
- "Get your hips as high as you can, not your feet!" This is something that can help against arching. Part of the reason people arch is because it feels like you get higher that way, but it's just your feet getting higher.

- "lean forward, lean back": explain to lean shoulders forwards during the cast, then shoulders back for the hip circle. This may be more advanced!

- maybe more advanced? For me, I can cast about 45 above horizontal at best, and what really helped me take an extra step was simply "try swinging harder" at the start. I just didn't realise I wasn't giving it the full swing at the start, haha. I think that's a less common issue though.

Some drills:
Practise the shoulders over bar position on a floor bar and explain this is how they should be in a cast. I think sometimes beginners can't cast high because they don't lean their shoulders forwards over the bar enough. You need to cast above the bar, not behind it. Though be careful with this one too, if you start working on the shoulder over bar position, the drop back into the hip circle may become harder for them. Because they'll need to learn to lean forward, but ALSO drop their shoulders back again into the hip circle. So I think this is one to gradually introduce?
Make sure to correct their form, and show them just how far forwards their shoulders should be. Ask them to feel how different that feels, like "Can you tell how much further forwards you are now?"

more advanced perhaps: cast to heightened surface. I like to place two blocks next to myself to land my feet on straddled, with a gap in the middle for my cast swing.

There's tons of other drills to find on youtube, so feel free to look around there. just search for "cast drills bars".

 

[HopefulGymnast]

4 is insane! I did 2 by accident once that’s it lol! Your incredible! And so is everyone in your class!

what's typical is I really have trouble transferring that to a clear hip. I can barely get it to horizontal after working on it for a year.