Parents Balancing fun with advancement

[wgymmom]

Adding in my voice. We have homeschooled from the beginning, but not because of gymnastics. However, if DD had to go to PS, she would almost certainly have to quit competitive gymnastics because of practice hours and where we live vs. the gym.

Benefits are:
No homework after getting home from practice
More sleep in the mornings (getting up at 7:30 instead of 6am)
Time to play and mess around between finishing school work and going to practice (she would have to get off the bus and go straight to practice)

And all the other awesome pros to homeschooling.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

You can do NCAA without homeschooling.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

It is entirely possible to get to NCAA and not homeschool.

Hmmm about 100,000,000 gymnasts register USGA. About 30 end up on National team. About 60 or so Division 1 schools, so you figure about 200 scholarships per year.
And factor in if a school needs strength in say vault and your kid is not strong in vault, oh well. And that is not even considering injuries. 5 young ladies make the Olympic gymnastic team every 4 years, and again the coaches have the option to decide who goes. I am not a fan of those odds.

JMO I can't see my girl doing those hours at the gym, she would be miserable.

She is 3rd grade, she needs balance and options. And she is a good gymnast. And we need to be realistic. She can get to Level 10 and get into a Div 3 School for gymnastics on an academic ride. She could even get to NCAA Div 1 from a Level 10. We are good.

 

[wallflower]

I am wondering what some of the rest of you parents think about "fun" in a gymnastics context. I have a soon to be 8 year old L3 DD. Although she practices hard for 12 hours a week in addition to being in 2nd grade at a public school, I believe she is still having fun. I also believe that she is not on an elite path by virtue of the choices we (myself and DD) are making together. She has never had a private and isn't in a gym/homeschool program. Often on this board we talk about letting the girls have "fun" at this stage of their gymnastics. Are the same girls my DD's age who are homeschooled, training 20+ hours a week, doing TOPs, and having every waking minute be about higher level gymnastics having fun? How does the parent of such a child know this would be fun for them before embarking on these efforts? I am currently considering making some life changes that would enable my DD to train more hours and become a better gymnast. Our goal would still be fun and possibly NCAA down the road, not elite. But how do I know that becoming more serious won't take the "fun" out of it for her??

I can only speak from our experience and my child, but you ask how a parent could know it's going to be fun for them before they embark on it. Well, you don't, but keep in mind we didn't wake up one day and go from zero to 60. It's definitely a gradual process and you just gauge how they seem to be doing and feeling. And let the child lead.

I think the point I knew my DD was serious about gymnastics was when she finished old 4 as a 6 year old.

 

[wallflower]

Hit reply too soon.

After old level 4 she wanted to skip 5 and do old 6. Then before she even began competing 6 she decided she wanted to move to level 7 mid season. The goal excited her. She had a few teammates that trying to do the mid season move led to breakdowns and eventually quitting. I never would have expected that. So you just never know what to expect and every kid is different. What was fun for my kid was like being tortured for her friend. So "fun" is a hard word to define.

 

[Judybird]

All great points.

I said NCAA to indicate that we understand that she'll never be an Olympian. My expectation is that she'll receive a full academic scholarship like I did. I once got fussed a bit by one of our coaches when I said that. I giggled inwardly.

Academics will always be the highest priority behind church. Gymnastics is third in the ranking.

I guess things vary greatly depending on your state. Frankly, being homeschooled would give my DD a chance for more one-on-one attention with the same curriculum, standards, and accountability. It has only been in the last 6 months that I was in a position that I could consider homeschooling. There wouldn't be a huge increase in hours if we started daytime gym. We just wouldn't be up there until 9 at night. Plus, the growing trend in our area is that gyms are having daytime programs that provide the type of quality training we've received at night thus far and their nighttime programs are not as serious. I hope our gym continues to provide a good program for nighttime and doesn't begin to mimic other area gyms that way.

So, who knows what I'll decide to do. I am taking my time and carefully considering different options.

 

[wgymmom]

You can do NCAA without homeschooling.

It's probably easier to do NCAA from a public/private school or online public school than straight homeschooling. I am nervous about hitting NCAA requirements, but maybe it will make more sense the closer we get.

 

[iwannacoach]

....if it doesn't burn her out first.

Your point is well taken but I'd like to add a few thoughts......

I cringe at the idea of 4-6 year old's participating in programs that throw every strand of spaghetti on the wall to see which one sticks. The idea is the best chance to create champions is to have 30 post toddler kids and train/treat them as future elite gymnasts. Hopefully, in 4 years time, four to six of the original 30 are still going strong and doing as well as their adolescent body evolutions will allow. What happens to the other kids ranges anywhere from losing interest to hating the work because they only wanted to be flippy and have fun.

Burnout is to broad a word to use in a discussion of this sort because burnout can be defined or perceived in very different and opposite ways. Personally, I'd rather see my kid burn out by following their dream and realizing it just wasn't what they really wanted or were capable of, than to see them put in 80% of the required work (and sacrifice) that makes a gymnast what a gymnast is, and all the while hoping it would lead to big time gymnastics and podium visits..... now that's really dreaming.....

By the way.....

They aren't sacrifices when the choices are made to support what you hope to become. Fun can be had by working your tail off and watching yourself be as good, or better than, you'd hoped.

It happens.

 

[iwannacoach]

This quote is spot on with why I started this post originally. I never mentioned homeschooling in my first post because that is not what I am nervous about. My real concern is that I have a girl who loves gym and is performing well in her meets and wants more. Therefore,I'm am willing to do what it takes to get her the additional training she is requesting. But I don't want her to get sooooo loaded up with training hours that it becomes drudgery. At the end of the day, we won't really know until we try. If we go the daytime gym route next year instead of the current nighttime gym and it doesn't work out, we can always revert back.

I love hearing everybody's feedback. It really helps to hear so many different perspectives.

I liked it because...... I like it.

 

[B.Gold]

Your point is well taken but I'd like to add a few thoughts......

I cringe at the idea of 4-6 year old's participating in programs that throw every strand of spaghetti on the wall to see which one sticks. The idea is the best chance to create champions is to have 30 post toddler kids and train/treat them as future elite gymnasts. Hopefully, in 4 years time, four to six of the original 30 are still going strong and doing as well as their adolescent body evolutions will allow. What happens to the other kids ranges anywhere from losing interest to hating the work because they only wanted to be flippy and have fun.

Burnout is to broad a word to use in a discussion of this sort because burnout can be defined or perceived in very different and opposite ways. Personally, I'd rather see my kid burn out by following their dream and realizing it just wasn't what they really wanted or were capable of, than to see them put in 80% of the required work (and sacrifice) that makes a gymnast what a gymnast is, and all the while hoping it would lead to big time gymnastics and podium visits..... now that's really dreaming.....

By the way.....

They aren't sacrifices when the choices are made to support what you hope to become. Fun can be had by working your tail off and watching yourself be as good, or better than, you'd hoped.

It happens.

You are absolutely 100% right. Frankly, burn out tends to carry a bad connotation doesn't it? It really shouldn't, it just means that child is ready to move on.

But Judybird was reflecting that if the 30-40 hour home school route doesn't work for her kid they can easily jump back to the old routine. I was pointing out it's not always that simple. And that it is a risk.

I've been witness to a child trying to transition back to public school and a normal gym schedule from a homeschooling group after she decided it wasnt her dream after all. The parents have no regrets that they allowed their child to follow her dream for several years, and while she appears to be done, and no doubt she is burnt out, she is having a very hard time letting go of gymnastics. And she was one who loooooooved loved loved the sport at one time.

This kid has so much going for her outside the gym that her quitting would be anything but a negative thing.

 

[kimute]

Back to the original question, this is one I think about a lot. My DD (8yo) trains 19 hours/week including TOPs. She attends public school so most of her "free" time is at gym. She doesn't beg for more gym time or want less. She says her current schedule is appropriate for her for now. I don't have a clue as to whether she would want the intensity required for elite/NCAA, but no doors are closed.

She moved up recently from a group that included her BFF from school and several other girls around her age that she had a lot of "fun" with. She seems more motivated and happier now that she is training harder and working more challenging skills. On the flip side, there is less traditional "fun"/goofing off going on and few kids her age to engage with. On the other hand, she used to get kind of annoyed if there was too much goofing off in her group.

As several others have mentioned, perhaps the definition of "fun" depends on the kid and I guess mine is having her kind of fun, an intense, challenging kind of fun.

 

[cbifoja]

I honestly don't understand the hold this sport has on these girls, and to some extent, some parents. My friends and I joke, kind of, about it being a cult!

I mean, they spend HOURS every single week busting their butts. They deny themselves other activities. They bruise, bleed, sometimes break bones. They fall a thousand times a month but still don't stop. They don't even care that they fall because they just hop up and try again. And they LIKE it. I mean seriously.....it's like an addiction! LOL

And some parents act as if their child quitting gym is the worse thing that could possibly happen. Some coaches do too. Also don't get that. When my child quits, then she quits. She won't be "less than" and she won't have "failed" or fallen short. It will just be over. And she will move on to something else and I'll be just as proud of her then.

So I don't get how this sport is fun but I cannot deny that it is. My daughter still, even after 5 years, bursts into her gym with love and energy. The look on her face when she is bouncing on the tramp is beautiful. She looks so free and happy. It overshadows everything hard about the sport.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I am wondering what some of the rest of you parents think about "fun" in a gymnastics context.

I think fun is relative and child dependent. Again, some kids love being in the gym All.The.Time. Some don't. And the other stuff is family/parent driven. And what the priorities are. Here its school and religion, then Chinese school and gymnastics.

My girl would be miserable at 5-6 days a week. Right now she has her days where she doesn't want to go. Don't we all have those days? But once at the gym, she is off and running and happy about it. The days when that stops happening on a regular basis, she is done. If she is getting injury prone, school work suffering, personality changes she is done.

We usually have this conversation about once a year. Usually in spring when the windows are open and she hears her neighborhood friends outside playing (and they all have activities and sports stuff too, but the timing is not always the same). And she whines, why do I have to go to gymnastics. And I reply, well you have been using the back of my couch as a balance beam since you were 18 months old, you watch TV standing on the back of the couch, your mode of transportation around the house is a cartwheel but you can quit anytime. And she goes I can? Sure what will you be doing in place of that because TV and video games wont cut it. So will it be violin, piano, karate, dance, soccer, lacrosse, baseball? Gymnastics it is.

She likes gymnastics. She is good at gymnastics. She works hard. But she is not a gymnastics all the time girl. Other kids I am sure are different.

 

[balancedmom]

this conversation is fascinating to me, and I don't want to start a debate, but I cannot even imagine at lower level gymnastics making any decision based on where a child could potentially be in college (or even two years from now). Almost no kids end up making it to college gymnastics (excluding rec), let alone the Olympics, so to me, dropping everything for the sport just does not make sense. I get there are some superstars who might attain the top, but for the other 99.9% of kids in the sport, it seems like parents put a lot in ne basket. I already feel like with 3 or 4 days in the gym after school, my DD has time for little else.

and maybe this is wrong, but our coach says he doesn't know until L8 whether a girl will be able to 'make it' in the sport.

anyway, I don't judge any decisions since i know they are being made in the best interest of your kids, just adding my 2 cents.

 

[cbifoja]

You're right balancedmom....because as someone else mentioned, most of the girls at the gym want to go to the Olympics but we know that they won't. However, I'm not going to kill a kid's dream. My DD still thinks she is working toward the Olympics. She isn't. For a number of reasons but it's still hope and hope is inspirational.

Now, my DD not just wants to do college gym but at a specific college. While that may be a more realistic dream, I have come to learn that she still has so many obstacles she will have to prove herself able to overcome before she has any right to talk about really being recruited. She's 10. She still has to get through puberty, social desires, possible injuries, and BOYS. She has NO idea what she will want at 15.

Again, I'm not going to stomp on her dreams and it gives her direction and goals. And it is still fun. When it isn't fun, or when it is more pain/sacrifice than fun, then I hope she is at peace with walking away.

My DD would love to be homeschooled so she could do advanced day practice. But I'm raising a person, not just a gymnast. I don't think homeschool is in her best interest and it would be detrimental to our relationship. She's not a little phenom. She might develop into a great gymnast but that remains to be seen. Not willing to make even MORE sacrifices at this point.

 

[balancedmom]

You're right balancedmom....because as someone else mentioned, most of the girls at the gym want to go to the Olympics but we know that they won't. However, I'm not going to kill a kid's dream. My DD still thinks she is working toward the Olympics. She isn't. For a number of reasons but it's still hope and hope is inspirational.

Now, my DD not just wants to do college gym but at a specific college. While that may be a more realistic dream, I have come to learn that she still has so many obstacles she will have to prove herself able to overcome before she has any right to talk about really being recruited. She's 10. She still has to get through puberty, social desires, possible injuries, and BOYS. She has NO idea what she will want at 15.

Again, I'm not going to stomp on her dreams and it gives her direction and goals. And it is still fun. When it isn't fun, or when it is more pain/sacrifice than fun, then I hope she is at peace with walking away.

My DD would love to be homeschooled so she could do advanced day practice. But I'm raising a person, not just a gymnast. I don't think homeschool is in her best interest and it would be detrimental to our relationship. She's not a little phenom. She might develop into a great gymnast but that remains to be seen. Not willing to make even MORE sacrifices at this point.

agree that we should not kill our kids' dreams-- I completely understand that and it is a balance. I just think there are ways to bolster their dreams and balance that with the reality. My DD is also 10 and L6, and I just think while she loves the sport now, you are right-- she will go through so much in the next few years that I want her to have room to grow in whatever direction she chooses, be that in the gym or not.

 

[Judybird]

this conversation is fascinating to me, and I don't want to start a debate, but I cannot even imagine at lower level gymnastics making any decision based on where a child could potentially be in college (or even two years from now). Almost no kids end up making it to college gymnastics (excluding rec), let alone the Olympics, so to me, dropping everything for the sport just does not make.

I am also fascinated by this thread. It is a perfect example of how differently people interpret or "read into" statements made by others. This began as me musing about how to make sure I don't take the fun out of gymnastics for my DD by allowing her to take a small step toward more serious training. I would think a similar thought might go through a parent's mind if they were contemplating a move from rec to team or XCEL to USAG. Balancedmom's quote above contains "dropping everything". Whoa Nelly!!!

Sadly I have seen parents push a girl not much older than my DD to TOPs training, numerous privates, and rapid level progression that have had the result of her converting from a smiling, exuberant gymmie to a sad, crestfallen one. My intention is to avoid that scenario but still support my daughter's participation in the sport in accordance with her desires. Make sense?

 

[balancedmom]

I am also fascinated by this thread. It is a perfect example of how differently people interpret or "read into" statements made by others. This began as me musing about how to make sure I don't take the fun out of gymnastics for my DD by allowing her to take a small step toward more serious training. I would think a similar thought might go through a parent's mind if they were contemplating a move from rec to team or XCEL to USAG. Balancedmom's quote above contains "dropping everything". Whoa Nelly!!!

Sadly I have seen parents push a girl not much older than my DD to TOPs training, numerous privates, and rapid level progression that have had the result of her converting from a smiling, exuberant gymmie to a sad, crestfallen one. My intention is to avoid that scenario but still support my daughter's participation in the sport in accordance with her desires. Make sense?

Judybird-- yes, my reply was in response to whole thread not anyone in particular. Think it makes sense for you to ask about and think about balancing everything-- it gets hard-- even at our gym which is more laid back. Our kids and parents are seeing now at competitions that the more hardcore gyms produce better gymnasts, so it is circular-- the more you practice and more you focus on gymnastics, the more likely you are in general to succeeed I think.....

 

[rbearclaw]

I wanted to chime in on this topic with a similar question. My 7 year old is started to train more seriously and she is definitely wanting the intense training. Personally I am not ready to homeschool her at this age for a lot of the reasons stated above, and I am just fine with her current amount of gym hours.

The question I have is directed towards the Ranch training camps. She is training TOPS (for 8 year olds) and desperately wants to get to Texas, and of course nobody can speculate if she will make it or not (I know it's early to even think about this), but IF she did....I just know her school would not tolerate her being out 2, 3,4 days in a row, poss several times in the school year, to attend. Any advice on how parents have dealt with that?

 

[cbifoja]

Honestly, in elementary school, I wouldn't sweat it and I'm a teacher. My DD's elementary school is VERY nonsupportive of her gymnastics. They wouldn't tolerate leaving early and she takes an unexcused absence every single time we have to travel for a meet.

I prepared a huge report one year showing how her trip met and exceeded the educational standards when she was in the 3rd grade. Her principal said no but that I could appeal. The board office omsbudsman said she always sides with the principal (that's NOT an omsbudsman!), and I eventually took it up to the superintendent.

Because that person is technically my boss, I stopped after an after hours phone call from her. She basically told me that the unexcused versus excused just isn't really an issue and that as long as she was a strong student who made up missed work, it just wasn't worth the battle I was waging.

I guess my opinion is based on that conversation. As long as your daughter is given the work and can stay caught up, this early in her educational career, the excused versus unexcused just doesn't matter. I get my "habitual truant" letter every year (our kids can have a total of 5 absences/tardies for the year) but I never get a court referral or even a call from the board office. So for us, there really doesn't seem to be a true consequence as long as I can let go that I don't think it's fair that she has to take the unexcused.