Parents Can you tell when a kid is trying?

[Ilovebagels]

Weird question, I realize. My daughter’s coaches have told me she’s not trying hard enough at practice and it’s why she’s not progressing fast enough. It’s driving me (and her) crazy because I don’t see it what they are seeing. She’s not goofing off and looks like she’s doing everything they are asking her to do. (I watch and would be the first one to call her out for goofing off). when I asked one of her coaches mentioned that it’s because she’s not making the corrections and they know she can. Has anyone else ever dealt with this? Is it possible that she is trying but doesn’t get it or body can’t do it? Any suggestions on what she can do to show them she’s trying as hard as she is? Or should we just not stress about this and encourage her to keep trying hard regardless. If it helps for context, we are at a very competitive gym and they take scores and winning very seriously.

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

I do believe coaches can usually tell. When a kid is making an effort to make a correction you can see SOME kind of difference. I have seen girls get a correction and proceed to fall on their butts in the next repitition and the coaches applaud them because it means they made an attempt to do something different.

I could have written your post. My kid is a generally hard worker. She comes to every practice, she does every station, every repitition, she doesn't cheat, she doesn't chat. But there have been MANY skills where she was not making a real attempt at making the corrections. Currently one big one would be vertical handstand on beam.

She insisted up and down until she was blue in the face that she is attempting vertical handstands, that she *feels* like she's vertical, that she can't tell the difference between vertical and almost vertical. But the second she was told that she probably wouldn't get to work on her beam back handsprings (which she desperately wants) when her handstand wasn't even getting credit? She had vertical handstands at the very next practice.

Occasionally they don't understand HOW to make a correction and need to ask. But usually they have to find something that motivates them enough to change what they're doing. Usually it's either scoring/placing better, wanting the *next* skill (no back tucks until your handsprings are perfect), or being fussed at by your coach until you finally make the change.

If she's at a gym with a heavy emphasis on scores and winning, there could be all kinds of pressure and stress impacting this stuff though too.

You can't make one bit of difference about this. Just sit back for the ride and let her work out for herself exactly how motivated she is.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I’m weird. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

I don’t know you, your gymmie or the coaches. But my thought is if you are giving the same corrections in the same way repeatedly and it’s not working...

Try a different approach.

And I’ve had this experience on many levels. Even personally. I’m old enough to say I’m just not getting it, can you explain it differently or can I talk to someone else..... hard for kids to advocate that way..... JMO I‘d bring it up.

 

[gymgal]

How old is she and what skills? For the longest time, dd's coaches were providing corrections on straightening her legs and keeping tight. I can't remember the skill but dd swore she was trying her best. It wasn't until a different coach actually showed her what it felt like to be straight and tight vs what she was doing that she understood and could make those correcting. Body awareness develops at different paces for different athletes. She may just need to be told /shown a different way.

 

[Dahlia]

How old is she and what skills? For the longest time, dd's coaches were providing corrections on straightening her legs and keeping tight. I can't remember the skill but dd swore she was trying her best. It wasn't until a different coach actually showed her what it felt like to be straight and tight vs what she was doing that she understood and could make those correcting. Body awareness develops at different paces for different athletes. She may just need to be told /shown a different way.

Exactly this. My dd was constantly told she wasn't trying hard enough. Took her to another gym and the different coaching style there made all the difference.

 

[mommyof1]

Occasionally they don't understand HOW to make a correction and need to ask. But usually they have to find something that motivates them enough to change what they're doing. Usually it's either scoring/placing better, wanting the *next* skill (no back tucks until your handsprings are perfect), or being fussed at by your coach until you finally make the change.

You can't make one bit of difference about this. Just sit back for the ride and let her work out for herself exactly how motivated she is.

I don't agree that it always comes down to motivation. If the coach's teaching style doesn't match the child's learning style, and the coach refuses to adapt, it's entirely possible that the child could be making her best effort to make the correction without truly understanding what the coach is asking her to do. It's also possible for fear or lack of self-confidence to get in the way of making corrections. Of course there are some kids who truly don't care or don't try, but once you get to a certain level in gymnastics those are few and far between.

 

[CLgym]

It's also possible for fear or lack of self-confidence to get in the way of making corrections

^^ I was going to bring this up too. In my experience, when my DD is struggling in the gym, there is often a mental component (fear, frustration, embarrassment, etc.) that is impacting her progress.

 

[mommyof1]

But usually they have to find something that motivates them enough to change what they're doing. Usually it's either scoring/placing better, wanting the *next* skill (no back tucks until your handsprings are perfect), or being fussed at by your coach until you finally make the change.

For my kid, withholding uptraining is actually demotivating and counterproductive.

 

[Sk8ermaiden]

The biggest issue is the coaches knowing what motivates the kid. For my kid it is the *the* single most motivating thing you can do. Not so much witholding uptraining, as *offering* uptraining if the correction is made.


Ours aren't going to let you train the next skill before the foundation is good though. That's a recipe for injury.

 

[Ilovebagels]

She is 9 and was training level 5 but I think they want her to repeat so uptraining less and less. I really think it is that she doesn’t get the corrections or maybe just isn’t capable of doing them. Probably more the second one. Moving isn’t really an option since there’s really no other gym around. Could totally be fear or mental I just don’t know what is going on, if she’s not really trying her hardest, and what to do either way.

 

[OrchidZ]

Is she happy in the gym?

My girl swore up and down that she was trying her hardest. When everything imploded and we ended up switching gyms (for a large number of very valid and different reasons), she admitted that sometimes she didn't give her best - in rebellion against the coaching style. She just didn't want to admit it at the time because she was afraid of consequences. We also discovered later that extreme tightness in her hip flexors and tendons going down her leg (part of which was need for serious sports recovery and part of which was growth related) were making it hard for her to straighten her legs (and affected her ability to "work hard" in that way). But yes, part of it was just her ("just a few times" she said). Part was fear-based. It was complicated.

There are a lot of possible explanations. Good luck finding the right one(s) so that you can all work as a team to help her. If it's mental/fear-based, please please look into mental coaching as soon as possible. Several businesses offer weekly group classes. I know it adds to what we spend, but if it's mental, delaying getting help will make it worse and harder to fight.

 

[CoachJessica8704]

I don't agree that it always comes down to motivation. If the coach's teaching style doesn't match the child's learning style, and the coach refuses to adapt, it's entirely possible that the child could be making her best effort to make the correction without truly understanding what the coach is asking her to do. It's also possible for fear or lack of self-confidence to get in the way of making corrections. Of course there are some kids who truly don't care or don't try, but once you get to a certain level in gymnastics those are few and far between.

100% agree with this. My daughter does better at practice with more hands on coaching and she understands what corrections need to be made after being spotted and taught through progressions. Right now, due to circumstances out of my control she’s on a large team with only 2 coaches helping multiple levels (for Excel), and because she’s a higher level and more experienced she’s expected to basically be learning new skills on her own without a lot of help so she’s really struggling and one of the coaches just doesn’t think she’s making an effort. The two coaches are both very good, but the team is large and they aren’t able to work with the kids individually, especially since most of the girls are learning a wide variety of different skills at the same time. We’re planning on her going back to JO at the end of the season (she’ll get more of the hands-on coaching, plus there are a lot fewer girls and she will learn more in her style). She’s really struggling this year because she’s having to do skills she’s basically taught herself during competition, so there’s a lot of deductions and she’s not sure how to correct a lot of the issues. Even though I’m a coach, she’s at a higher level than I’m comfortable working with so outside of basics (like working on her casts which have gotten extremely sloppy without a lot of coaching supervision) Im not able to help her either (if she would actually listen to me ).

 

[Ilovebagels]

100% agree with this. My daughter does better at practice with more hands on coaching and she understands what corrections need to be made after being spotted and taught through progressions. Right now, due to circumstances out of my control she’s on a large team with only 2 coaches helping multiple levels (for Excel), and because she’s a higher level and more experienced she’s expected to basically be learning new skills on her own without a lot of help so she’s really struggling and one of the coaches just doesn’t think she’s making an effort. The two coaches are both very good, but the team is large and they aren’t able to work with the kids individually, especially since most of the girls are learning a wide variety of different skills at the same time.

Could have written this. Really appreciate the responses, they are super helpful. Only problem is I’m still not sure what to do other than wait and hope she starts to get it.

 

[Ilovebagels]

Is she happy in the gym?

Great question. She loves gymnastics, her coaches and her team, but this has been very hard. To me she seems demotivated and frustrated and from the outside it looks like she wants to please her coaches but doesn’t know how. Since they’ve stopped uptraining her it actually seems like she enjoys it more - the pressure is off. So short answer, I don’t know.

 

[CoachJessica8704]

Also, just FYI, sometimes repeating a level isn’t a bad thing AT ALL. My daughter’s two best friends are both repeating level 5 this year and it’s been the best thing for them self confidence wise as well as skill wise. Sometimes, there’s just some component in a skill that’s keeping a child from doing it the way it needs to be done to build upon it (because in all honesty SO MANY of the compulsory skills build upon each other so the gymnast needs to do them with the proper form and mechanics to truly get the skill it leads up to... example: for kips there are stride circles in level 2 and 3 help with wrist movements, glide swings in level 3 to build upon the forward momentum, front hip circles in level 3 also help with wrist movements as well as helping with the movements of the torso... if a gymnast is struggling with these things, getting their kip can be much much harder... levers are super important and they learn those on the beam starting in level 1 and then level 2... it all leads into handstands... I could go on and on...). If a coach is noticing a gymnast is truly struggling with a skill that’s needed to build upon, then it may be necessary to repeat the level until that skill is mastered. The good thing is that with gymnastics, it can be day to day- what they’re struggling with on Monday, suddenly they have on Friday.
My other advice (and this may sound extreme to some people, but sometimes it’s necessary depending on their learning style...) is maybe talk to the coach about doing privates. Sometimes a little extra one on one time with the coach is all that’s needed...

 

[Ilovebagels]

Also, just FYI, sometimes repeating a level isn’t a bad thing AT ALL. My daughter’s two best friends are both repeating level 5 this year and it’s been the best thing for them self confidence wise as well as skill wise. Sometimes, there’s just some component in a skill that’s keeping a child from doing it the way it needs to be done to build upon it (because in all honesty SO MANY of the compulsory skills build upon each other so the gymnast needs to do them with the proper form and mechanics to truly get the skill it leads up to... example: for kips there are stride circles in level 2 and 3 help with wrist movements, glide swings in level 3 to build upon the forward momentum, front hip circles in level 3 also help with wrist movements as well as helping with the movements of the torso... if a gymnast is struggling with these things, getting their kip can be much much harder... levers are super important and they learn those on the beam starting in level 1 and then level 2... it all leads into handstands... I could go on and on...). If a coach is noticing a gymnast is truly struggling with a skill that’s needed to build upon, then it may be necessary to repeat the level until that skill is mastered. The good thing is that with gymnastics, it can be day to day- what they’re struggling with on Monday, suddenly they have on Friday.
My other advice (and this may sound extreme to some people, but sometimes it’s necessary depending on their learning style...) is maybe talk to the coach about doing privates. Sometimes a little extra one on one time with the coach is all that’s needed...

I really love this comment, thank you!! I think part of the issue is the stigma of the whole thing, but I see a certain benefit to even that. I think ultimately that’s what is going on - she needs to perfect those foundational skills so that future uptraining will be easier vs a major struggle. I guess now my question is - she moved up through rec and preteam really fast and now we are kindof wondering if maybe she’s not as cut out for gymnastics as we thought. Do kids sometimes repeat levels and then catch back up with their peers? Or should we prepare ourselves for multiple years at each level and her just getting further and further behind her peeps?

 

[CoachJessica8704]

I really love this comment, thank you!! I think part of the issue is the stigma of the whole thing, but I see a certain benefit to even that. I think ultimately that’s what is going on - she needs to perfect those foundational skills so that future uptraining will be easier vs a major struggle. I guess now my question is - she moved up through rec and preteam really fast and now we are kindof wondering if maybe she’s not as cut out for gymnastics as we thought. Do kids sometimes repeat levels and then catch back up with their peers? Or should we prepare ourselves for multiple years at each level and her just getting further and further behind her peeps?

So I’m not 100% sure how they do things in optionals. In our gym, once a gymnast gets to optionals they’re basically all together, and they work on their skills. But no, I don’t think they just because they repeat one year they will be forever just falling behind. Like I said, for a lot of kids it really is a good thing. There’s just such a stigma behind repeating a level- like there’s a race to get to level 10 as fast as humanly possible and having to repeat means the end of a gymnasts career. But seriously it can help make them so much better in the long run. I also know there’s a lot of gyms around us who completely skip level 5 (they have test out meets before January then move on to optionals), but that’s not always what’s best for the girls either. Each gymnast is going to go at her own pace. She might jump from classes to level 4, or take 2 years in level 2 then fly through the rest... my DD has done two years in excel (one silver and one gold), and will be competing level 4 next year (I think) despite having almost all her level 5 skills because I don’t think she’s ready to compete 5. She took a year off due to injury and she’ll be two years behind her two best friends, but who knows what will end up happening in the future. That’s again the great thing with gymnastics. It’s all about their skill, which is part strength, part mental, part hard work... it’s fluid and theirs no way to predict it.

 

[Tmacs]

I really love this comment, thank you!! I think part of the issue is the stigma of the whole thing, but I see a certain benefit to even that. I think ultimately that’s what is going on - she needs to perfect those foundational skills so that future uptraining will be easier vs a major struggle. I guess now my question is - she moved up through rec and preteam really fast and now we are kindof wondering if maybe she’s not as cut out for gymnastics as we thought. Do kids sometimes repeat levels and then catch back up with their peers? Or should we prepare ourselves for multiple years at each level and her just getting further and further behind her peeps?

Our gym really loves to repeat girls so there isn’t that stigma. One gymnast who repeated 3 even though she had all her level 4 skills gained so much confidence that repeat year that now she is winning AA in level 4 at every meet and scoring 9.6 and 9.7 on bars! I wouldn’t be surprised if she skipped 5 and went to optionals. Repeating to gain the best fundamentals you can is far better than rushing and risking injury or burnout. I think kids can more than catch up after repeating!

 

[GymDadWA]

It’s driving me (and her) crazy because I don’t see it what they are seeing. She’s not goofing off and looks like she’s doing everything they are asking her to do. (I watch and would be the first one to call her out for goofing off). when I asked one of her coaches mentioned that it’s because she’s not making the corrections and they know she can. Has anyone else ever dealt with this? Is it possible that she is trying but doesn’t get it or body can’t do it? Any suggestions on what she can do to show them she’s trying as hard as she is?

Yeah my DD has a similar issue, and it isn't physical effort but more so mental effort. For instance if she is asked to do 20 reps of something, she'll do 5 perfect reps, and then 15 reps as fast as she can throwing form out the window so that she can be one of the first to finish. To her that is showing great effort, but really the coaches rather have seen 10 perfect reps than finishing first with bad form.

For my DD we just have to remind her of this and she has to basically think to herself "what am I supposed to get out of this drill?" Sometimes we'll video her if thinks she is doing something correct and obviously is not. The occasional private also helps, in addition to one on one time she also gets to slow down without anyone else to race.

 

[JessSyd]

I really think it is that she doesn’t get the corrections or maybe just isn’t capable of doing them. Probably more the second one.

A few years ago my Daughter’s coach was a little frustrated about how she seemed to be working hard but just wasn’t following through on corrections. After a chat with my daughter I realised that the issue was she was getting too many corrections at once. She was just getting stressed and overwhelmed. Not that the coach was going crazy with corrections, just that my kid does best when information is provided in small chunks.

I discussed it with her coach who decided to try a ‘one correction at a time’ approach and it was so successful that she started doing it with a couple of other girls too.