Changes to TOPS state level testing

gasrgoose · Feb 27, 2012

Any thoughts on the changes to TOPS testing? I'm interested particularly in thoughts on the skill and skill combination testing. And if your child is in a "TOPS program" are you aware of the changes.

Clover · Feb 27, 2012

Personally, I think that because these skills and combinations will now be part of the State testing many gyms will stop going to testing.
JMHO

Clover · Feb 28, 2012

Wow. I can't believe there hasn't been more discussion of this on the board. I was also wondering what folks think will be the weighting of the state skills vs the state physical abilities. Will the skills just basically replace the the 2 physical abilities that are going away? Or, will it be more of a 50/50 thing? What are coaches doing to prepare?

bookworm · Feb 28, 2012

I think with the skills requirements from the get-go, it will weed the pool of girls testing...and maybe that's what USAG wants.

Mom2twingymnasts · Feb 28, 2012

The is the first I'm learning of these changes. I went to USAG site to review the changes. I do think it makes sense to do some skills testing at the state level. State testings will be long and tiring.

gasrgoose · Feb 28, 2012

I agree the testing will take much longer for each individual but I also think there will be a smaller # testing. I like the changes. I'm sure there are some girls/coaches who have been focusing on the physical abilities testing that will have to make a big push to insure they have the skills. But the skill requirements don't seem very difficult, particularly if the child is on the "elite track".

It's pretty clear what they are looking for "For most coaches and athletes these program changes represent a greater time and effort commitment than previous TOPS participation. We understand we are raising the bar, we are hoping all of you will take this opportunity and rise to the challenge."

gymyahoo · Feb 28, 2012

gasrgoose said:
Any thoughts on the changes to TOPS testing? I'm interested particularly in thoughts on the skill and skill combination testing. And if your child is in a "TOPS program" are you aware of the changes.

Our coach came back from TOPS camp and heard the discussions on the changes. The thought was that if girls were testing skills when they came down to the ranch then why not incorporate it into the State testing. I guess many girls were going down and doing great on physical abilities but skills were so-so.

My DD was invited to developmental camp from TOPS. TOPS just gives a small preview to the reality of the rigoruos training that goes on when girls are invited to the ranch. Gary Warren was not joking when he said they were tough.

Clover · Feb 28, 2012

gymyahoo said:
Our coach came back from TOPS camp and heard the discussions on the changes. The thought was that if girls were testing skills when they came down to the ranch then why not incorporate it into the State testing. I guess many girls were going down and doing great on physical abilities but skills were so-so.

My DD was invited to developmental camp from TOPS. TOPS just gives a small preview to the reality of the rigoruos training that goes on when girls are invited to the ranch. Gary Warren was not joking when he said they were tough.

It does make sense. I just wish we'd known about it sooner. Our coaches just told us about it a couple of weeks ago or so.

Muddlethru · Feb 28, 2012

I agree with bookworm and I actually personally believe it is a great idea. My daughter qualified for national testing as a 9 and 10 year old. Unfortunately, our gym is not big on planning ahead. So, it was only when they found out she qualified for national testing did they start training the skills part. Three weeks is hardly enough time to be proficient at the skills, particularly when you are going against gymnasts who already compete the skills. She did surprisingly well considering the amount of time she tried. But it still was not nearly as strong as the ones who made the team. Suffice it to say, she did not make the team. The skills part is an important and necessary element in the TOPS program. For our gym, it might have made them train my daughter sooner, allowing her more time to be proficient. On the other hand, to those who are very strong in the physical part and struggle with the skills part, they will lose the opportunity to even experience going to the ranch. Then again, it will save the parents money on airfare and hotel. So, when push comes to shove, in my own personal opinion, incorporating the skills test into the state testing is a good idea.

LittleMinaGymnast · Feb 28, 2012

I'm just reading about the changes for the first time... seems a lot of the skills are the same as what is tested at National Testing (not the Appendix part)... am I reading it right???

gasrgoose · Feb 28, 2012

4theloveofsports said:
I agree with bookworm and I actually personally believe it is a great idea. My daughter qualified for national testing as a 9 and 10 year old. Unfortunately, our gym is not big on planning ahead. So, it was only when they found out she qualified for national testing did they start training the skills part. Three weeks is hardly enough time to be proficient at the skills, particularly when you are going against gymnasts who already compete the skills. She did surprisingly well considering the amount of time she tried. But it still was not nearly as strong as the ones who made the team. Suffice it to say, she did not make the team. The skills part is an important and necessary element in the TOPS program. For our gym, it might have made them train my daughter sooner, allowing her more time to be proficient. On the other hand, to those who are very strong in the physical part and struggle with the skills part, they will lose the opportunity to even experience going to the ranch. Then again, it will save the parents money on airfare and hotel. So, when push comes to shove, in my own personal opinion, incorporating the skills test into the state testing is a good idea.

Thanks for your input. It's nice to hear from someone who has been there and recognizes there are benefits to the changes. It will greatly reduce the # of girls at our gym who have a chance to qualify. But it might help one or two of the others. it should be interesting to watch.

Who will be more likely to qualify? The physical ability expert that has mastered these tests and can somewhat perform the required skills; Or the better performing skill gymnast who lacks a little of the physical excellence; Or will it be the gymnast that balances these two? I guess it will depend on how they "tests" are scored and what percentage of the total score each part counts. I haven't seen how the scoring will be calculated.

bookworm · Feb 28, 2012

Many moons ago when my daughter did TOPS , physical abilities was more heavily weighed the younger you were, with skills having a greater percentage of your score when older ...i.e. 9 yo 90% physical abilities and 10% skills; 10 yo 80% PA; 20% skills and so on...you get the drift. I would imagine some type of weighting of the skills versus the PA if they're going to bother having them done at state testing because in the past, girls made it to National Testing on physical abilities alone.

millymomof4 · Apr 10, 2012

My coach is nervous that with different skills testers in each state, different standards will rule state to state. For example, the tester in our state has an extremely strict interpretation of requirements. For example a couple of girls from our gym didn't make it to national testing because he didn't count some casts that he felt were too arched- our coach was very disapointed to see that these types of errors (and even sloppy legs) were present at nationals-- clearly some state testers gave their girls the benefit of the doubt.

Please, Gary Warren/national team staff if you are reading this: make standards clear, and state testers BE FAIR!!

Muddlethru · Jun 11, 2012

millymomof4 said:
My coach is nervous that with different skills testers in each state, different standards will rule state to state. For example, the tester in our state has an extremely strict interpretation of requirements. For example a couple of girls from our gym didn't make it to national testing because he didn't count some casts that he felt were too arched- our coach was very disapointed to see that these types of errors (and even sloppy legs) were present at nationals-- clearly some state testers gave their girls the benefit of the doubt.

Please, Gary Warren/national team staff if you are reading this: make standards clear, and state testers BE FAIR!!

This may be a two-sided sword. Would you rather have a linient tester, pay around $1,500 to go to the ranch with a very slim to no chance of either making the team or having a good showing (be thought of as one of the sloppier gymnasts)? Or would you rather have a strict tester so that you can be spared the time and expense? Either way, once at the ranch, everyone is at an even playing field.

gotgym · Jun 11, 2012

Gary is no longer incharge of TOPS. KIM RILEY is the person in charge at this time.. She sent an email out stating videos of the new skills and testing sheets with value points should be online by JUNE 1st. (so far its not) I did call and leave a message today as I have kids testing this weekend. IMO I believe this will weed out kids and test numbers will be smaller.. I find the bars even for state testing to be incredibly difficult

busymomof4 · Jun 12, 2012

My dd has had one test already. It is my understanding on the skills part such as beam that if they fall off they get a 0 for the entire routine. (even though there are several skills). They are also being strict on stuck landings. That is going to make it difficult for these girls that are only going to 2 testings. Hopefully my DD will be going to 4 testings in 2 states to try and get the highest score to qualify. This will be her last year for TOPS and hoping she can make it 3 for 3

Good Luck to all the other girls testing!!!

gotgym · Jun 13, 2012

Each routine is broken into 4parts, 6points each with routine totaling 24 points. If you fall you get a 0 for that particular part.

ann1245 · Jun 13, 2012

busymomof4 said:
My dd has had one test already. It is my understanding on the skills part such as beam that if they fall off they get a 0 for the entire routine. (even though there are several skills). They are also being strict on stuck landings. That is going to make it difficult for these girls that are only going to 2 testings. Hopefully my DD will be going to 4 testings in 2 states to try and get the highest score to qualify. This will be her last year for TOPS and hoping she can make it 3 for 3 Good Luck to all the other girls testing!!!

I didn't realize you can go out of state for extra testing? They cut our state testing days in 1/2 and I notice some states have more then others. Is there a certain number of testing a gymnast can do?

gotgym · Jun 13, 2012

I know I answered this and it disappeared ,so I apologize if it shows up twice. Yes you can go out of State and test as many times as you want. Some states have quite a few tests and even get together for mini clinic to make sure all are on the same page.. Unfortunately our state does not and our state director is not forthcoming with getting info out,answering calls or emails.. For this reason I go out of state for at least one test and open my gym to anyone that wants to practice together in preparing for TOPS,and sharing our knowledge.

gotgym · Jun 13, 2012

TOPS State Testing

Scoring Guidelines

Each of the three events will have 4 areas of judgment. Some skills will be grouped, such as “two casts abovehorizontal”. Total areas of judgments for all three events will be 12 sectionalscores for a maximum of 72 points.

Four possible score areas per section are as follows:

[TABLE="class: MsoNormalTable"]
[TR]
[TD]

Incomplete