WAG Connecting Round Off to BHS

[dogluver5645]

So I have had my standing back handspring for a while now and it's pretty good but I can't seem to connect my round off or anything to it. I have a good round off with a high rebound too, but whenever I try to go for my robhs, I always have to pause for 1+ seconds after my round off to go into my back handspring. This happens on both floor and tumbl trak. Does anyone have any tips or drills? It's so frustrating!!

 

[Aussie_coach]

Some gymnasts find it helps them a lot to work two connected back handsprings first. This can be a little easier because the back handspring goes straight so you don't have to deal with the change of direction. Try working the two on the tumble trak.

Also if you have a high rebound you might be struggling because you are going upwards rather than back wards. Your need to snap your round off under short so it travels backwards. The ultimate goal is short snap down in your round off and then long back handspring.

If you post a video of your round off there may be an issue that is impeding you.

 

[Gymishome]

Also if you have a high rebound you might be struggling because you are going upwards rather than back wards. Your need to snap your round off under short so it travels backwards. The ultimate goal is short snap down in your round off and then long back handspring.

What I was thinking. You may not be scooping your RO, which will mess up the BHS. A big scoop makes the back handspring long.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Two things I would suggest:

First, two backhandsprings from a stand. With a spot or on tumbletrak is fine.

The second thing I'd recommend is to do a slower roundoff (ie from a fall-step), stick it with no rebound, and then do a standing backhandspring. But -- and this is crucial -- you cannot move your feet or swing your arms between the roundoff and the backhandspring.
Over time, you can make this connection faster and faster.

 

[iwannacoach]

You need to learn how to connect two skills, and it can be hard to do at full speed or from a skill/position you're not comfortable with. There are more than a few lead up exercises that can help with this. Here's a partial list to get you started.

Backward roll and slowly rise into the squat/sit position you use as a starting point for a single bhs, and follow through into the bhs. So instead of a straight stand...dip to a sit...jump, you'd do a back roll...rise to a sit...jump.

Handstand on a fold up mat (six inches of height) and step down one foot after the other.....push as your hands leave the mat stack (make sure it won't slide as you do this) and rock back into the sit position as your second foot joins your first foot, and follow though into your bhs.

Cartwheel bhs..... using the same principles as the first two exercises.

Fall step round off into the bhs....like Geoffrey says.

The best thing to do is try each with a spot if there's any doubt about your ability to make it through the skill. Pick the exercise that's easiest for you, and build up your speed over a few sessions until you are getting bored with them. Pick a new one and do the same thing.

You'll get to the point of thinking a round off bhs can work for you..... and really the best way of transitioning is to stand with your arms up, your front leg raised to hip height, and then fall forward until you just gotta put the front foot down and kick the back leg up into a round off. If that doesn't give you just enough power to move through the sit position and jump to bhs, you can add one layer of fold up mat at a time until you find the best height for you to fall from into the round off..... do not go higher than 4 inches until you really can do the robhs with confidence and consistency.

 

[CoachTodd]

I'm with the coaches above that say slow it down. I also like to tell the kids to let the round off do the back handspring or let the first back handspring do the second. The snap from the first skill rebounds you into the next.
A lot of practice with a spot until you have the feel for it. Make sure you scoop through your hips and don't pike down so you have a good angle for a nice long back handspring.

 

[iwannacoach]

Choice of words that the kids *we* coach may understand, that doglover can't understand, is important to consider.......

Would it be fair to say we don't ask kids with her level of preparation to rebound into this skill?

 

[CoachTodd]

I teach the rebound into the next skill from the beginning. It kind of drives me crazy hearing someone tell a kid to "jump harder" between skills. At the beginning level, it will just be a slower, well-spotted rebound but I prefer them to think of it as a bounce and not a jump. This usually eliminates the pause between the skills. If the kids can't rebound out of the round off, they don't need to be connecting a back handspring to it.

 

[iwannacoach]

I teach the rebound into the next skill from the beginning. It kind of drives me crazy hearing someone tell a kid to "jump harder" between skills. At the beginning level, it will just be a slower, well-spotted rebound but I prefer them to think of it as a bounce and not a jump. This usually eliminates the pause between the skills. If the kids can't rebound out of the round off, they don't need to be connecting a back handspring to it.

I like the technique and approach you use but wonder if the OP has somebody to help her learn that style, and having read about her rebound being nice and high..... well, you know.

 

[AmandaLynn]

I teach the rebound into the next skill from the beginning. It kind of drives me crazy hearing someone tell a kid to "jump harder" between skills. At the beginning level, it will just be a slower, well-spotted rebound but I prefer them to think of it as a bounce and not a jump. This usually eliminates the pause between the skills. If the kids can't rebound out of the round off, they don't need to be connecting a back handspring to it.

I agree with this. I teach it as a rebound, then reach back into the BHS. I feel like when I used to tell kids to sit into a BHS from a round off, I would end up getting squatty/undercut back handsprings and kids with sore wrists. It seems like my beginners struggle with straightening and pushing through their legs completely if they are instructed to bend them between quickly connected skills like a RO BHS.

However, as iwc mentioned, "nice and high" is not the kind of rebound I would be looking for in order to connect a BHS.​

 

[CoachTodd]

I did mention that they need to scoop the round off under with out really going into detail. I do drills where I get the kids to round off to their backs from a raised surface to get the feel. I don't have them go quite that aggressive when connecting the skills at first. I make sure they know they should be rebounding up and back, not straight up. Sorry I didn't clarify. It still goes back to making sure the round off itself is done correctly. I think it's the most overlooked skill ,next to the handstand, in tumbling. The high rebound is also why I don't teach round off tucks.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I used to teach the transition between a roundoff and a backhandspring as being closer to a punch than a jump, but I've backed off of that lately, and now teach a deliberate bend in the knees on landing between the two skills. Here's why:

In order to get a long, low, fast backhandspring, the gymnast's center of mass needs to be significantly behind the feet when she initiates the BHS. By bending the knees, she allows a slight delay between landing the roundoff and initiating the BHS, and during that delay the CoM can fall further behind the feet, allowing for greater horizontal acceleration. I've also found this method extremely effective to avoid the forward knee buckle you often see in low-level backhandsprings; rather than emphasizing a fast RO-BHS, I emphasize a long one, and often tell kids I want them to make this transition slower (which, counter-intuitively, results in a faster BHS).

Whether you want to call it a jump or a bounce or what is as much a semantic question as anything else. The gymnast bends the hips and knees, then pushes off the floor with the glutes and quads. To me it's more like a jump than a rebound.


EDIT: To clarify, the amount of bend and the speed of the transition will vary depending on the tumbling surface. Gerald George has an excellent breakdown of this is Championship Gymnastics (I feel like I'm recommending that book in almost every coaching discussion these days). THe slower the response from the tumbling surface, the less the knees should bend in the transition. For example, a gymnast tumbling on a competition floor will need to bend her knees more than a power tumbler doing the same sequence on a rod floor. On a tumbletrak, there should be almost no bend at all.

 

[LIGYMMOM]

I just want to say that I love how you coaches are so willing to jump in and help someone that you don't even know. I love this forum! You must really love what you do.
At my dd's old gym they would start off teaching a BHS without the arm swing so that it's an easier transition when they got to the ROBHS. Every other gymnast I knew was learning them with that initial arm swing. When dd learned her ROBHS she never felt the need to stop in between so maybe there is something to that? Good luck dogluver!

 

[iwannacoach]

It still goes back to making sure the round off itself is done correctly. I think it's the most overlooked skill ,next to the handstand, in tumbling.

Indeed. I cringe while watching some pretty good gymnasts, and wonder what they might truly be capable of with a good round off.

 

[CoachTodd]

GT. you went back and edited what I was going to say in your post
I do have to remind the kids that the better they do the round off, the more they need to wait for the back handspring to come. Most of the tumblers I inherit from cheer jamb their back handspring the first time they do a good round off.

 

[gggymnast]

I'm an gymnast, and when I was learning them, my coach had us do the round-offs onto a raised surface, and I got them within 2 or 3 weeks.

 

[Kiwi]

You can practice round-offs on tumble-track to get the rebound going backwards, not just up (as other coaches have mentioned already), by snapping down into a question mark shape. I like to think of the snap-down as a snap up and in of the chest. Then try moving the RO to floor.

To get the connection to BHS, if you have done jump-back drills onto a thick mat for BHS, try doing round-off then immediate jump-back onto the mat (i.e. the first part of the BHS). Then you can try RO on trumble-track into BHS onto the mat (you can put a slightly firmer mat on top). (Note I am not an experienced coach, so experienced coaches please correct if necessary).

 

[dogluver5645]

Thank you all so much for the tips!! I really appreciate it!

 

[Kiwi]

I've just realised I invented a new word: trumble-track

 

[mado4]

If my gymnasts have trouble connecting RO BHS, I usually let them do this:

Handstand on a little "box" with a negative hollow position (does anyone know what I mean ??hahah…english is not my first language sorry)then do a snap down and jump backwards on a big mat…if this works I do the same but instead of a jump I add the BHS…