Parents Did You Know When They Were Little?

[Shelovesthebars]

My daughter is in a preschool preteam class at the gym. For the past 2 years I with other preschool moms have watched our elites working out. We have 2 on the national team and a few young elites that are too young to be but are crazy good. The moms seem to ask the same question over and over again. Did the parents and coaches know these kids were different when the elites/9 and 10's were preschool age? I know it may sound like a silly question but I guess it would be interesting to hear the asnwers from parents and coaches because I hear the question a lot. Coaches and Parents feel free to chime in please. It will be fun to talk about at my dd's next preschool class.

 

[cathiann]

Yes and no--yes, some of our high level girls were picked out when they were very young. But no--not all of them were! I would say over half the Optional team didn't start until 8 yrs or older.

 

[Billy]

Interesting topic! I can't wait to read more responses.

Boo is 8 years old and competing L7 and I still don't know if she's "special" in gymnastics terms. I do know that at 4 years old she was actively seeking and applying corrections from her preschool gymnastics teacher. She not only wanted to learn new skills but she wanted to know how to do them correctly. She wanted to be "like the big girls" (on team). Her preschool teacher said she'd never seen anything like it.

 

[mariposa]

I think that some kids show talent very early and some don't and there are kids from both groups that make it to optionals/elite. I think there are elite/optionals that have tons of natural talent for gymnastics and others that don't and have worked super hard to overcome that. I think that natural talent/ability is just a small part of the whole equation of gymnastics.

My DD has a friend she has known since she had just turned 4, friend had just turned 3. It was obvious at that age who had the natural ability for gymnastics, and it wasn't my kid!

Her friend had amazing flexibilty, great form, was ahead skill wise, etc. In fact, we changed gyms because her friend was picked out early to preteam and it broke my daughter's heart. I felt like she needed to be somewhere where she wasn't comparing herself to her friend all the time and didn't feel like she was always in her shadow. She just didn't understand why her friend (4 by then and she was 5) could do things she couldn't and she was younger, etc, it made her sad because she loved gym, but wasn't really "good" at it.

Fast forward to now. My DD is 7 1/2, her friend is 6 1/2. We are back at our old gym, she ended up on team at the gym we had changed to, repeated level 4 at her current gym because she really needed to polish up skills and form. Skill wise, they are pretty even. Her friend has her on tumbling, Abby's has her on bars. Friend still has amazing form and flexibility and just natural ability to get stuff (except for bars, which she struggles with a bit), it just comes easily for her. Mine struggles with skills (except bars she tends to be strong on) takes a long time for them to look "good". Of course, mine has a year on her friend and when her friend is 7 1/2 she will be way ahead of what mine was doing at the same age, it will just always be that way and luckily, Abby is okay with that now and enjoys being on team with her friend. She appreciates their differences and is proud of her friend when she gets stuff, comments on how pretty she does things, etc.

My kid didn't show any talent at a very young age, but she holds her own now. She never has and I doubt ever will be the stand out, but she works really hard and eventually it all comes together. She won't be the fast tracked kid and her friend will probably pass by her in the levels quickly, but she LOVES gym, works hard and is happy. That is all I can ask for!

 

[gymch34]

I have been coaching a long time and I have seen it all. I have seen kids who excell at a very young age and burn out bc they lost the fun too early and have very pushy parents. I have seen kids struggle at compulsories and excell at optionals. I have seen extremely gifted young gymnasts quit bc they just didnt like the competitive side of gymnastics. And I have seen the kids that just love the sport persevere and just work their little butts off and get to the top.

There is no true indicator. If you take any preteam and could magically fast forward 8-10 years later only a small percentage will still be involved in competitive gymnastics. And there are as many reasons kids stay in gymnastics/excell as there are different kids. At age 4/5 the class should be about FUN and learning to love gymnastics with excellent basics w/ perfect body positions(handstand, rolls, cartwheels) and conditioning and flex work. Those kids who are in a program like I described (not focused on chucking kips, backhandsprings, etc) at age 4 or 5 have the highest chance of success in the FUTURE.

 

[hunde2]

I think gymch 34 just said it all.There were kids on my daughter's Level 7 team that scorred and looked much better than her at the time but barely got their Level 8 skills and soon quit after.Some did not even make it to optionals and went to gym 4 more years than my daughter.
Even now there is no way of telling whether she sticks with it or even makes it to Level 10.
Injuries also play a big role.

 

[gymnut1]

At age 4/5 the class should be about FUN and learning to love gymnastics with excellent basics w/ perfect body positions(handstand, rolls, cartwheels) and conditioning and flex work. Those kids who are in a program like I described (not focused on chucking kips, backhandsprings, etc) at age 4 or 5 have the highest chance of success in the FUTURE.

tee hee thats me I even insist my kids in PE at school do everything toes pointed and correct body shape. When I fill in at rec classes I still insist. Beautiful basics should rule at any age or level. I hate to see little kids chucking bhs with terrible form. If they continue through the levels it has to be corrected at some point. Very difficult to do later. Much better to do early. One of my obsessions sorry. Beautiful can still be fun. Really it can.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

These replies are very interesting to read. So what I am getting is that yes, sometimes you can tell but that doesn't apply at all if they start later. Also, that very few early recognized talents that are still in the sport later on due to various reasons. It sounds like talent, opportunity and perserverance are all needed. Gymch34- There aren't even alot of 4/5 year old that could even attemp to chuck an ugly back handspring at my gym. And I do agree that gym should be Fun so that the kids stay interested. My dd's coach is strict about form to the point of obsessed. A skill performed with bad form does not count and my dd has to do it over.

 

[MdGymMom01]

My dd is one of the ones that started gymnastics later. She didn't start gymnastics until she was 9 years old (last year). There are some kids dd's age on her current team who have been on pre-team for 2 or 3 years before dd even started gymnastics. I guess you could say that dd "caught up" to her teammates very quickly in skill level. I do think that her athletic training in all star cheer and her natural flexibility has a LOT to do with how quickly she picked up the gymnastics skills. Take bars for instance--bars seem to be the hardest event for beginning gymnasts to learn but that ended up to be my dd's favorite and best event last year. Even this year, her bar skills are improving and that kip is looking better and better. I guess her athletic background helped her get the hang of bars.

Who knows where dd would be in gymnastics today if we would have started gymnastics at age 6 instead of cheerleading.

 

[bogwoppit]

I knew my oldest had "potential" when she was tiny. I would find the fearless two year old sitting on top of the fridge if I turned my back on her. She would climb up the walls and hide over our heads, creepy!

She could turn beautiful linked cartwheels at three and was strong and flexible. She trundled along great at gym, always with the older girls, but never training more than 5 hours a week. All the skills she has now she had when she was 7/8, ahe's about a level 6/7. That's when the first injury happened, then the second and so on......

She still loves gym and sticks with it, but other girls have passed her by as she has stepped out of the gym so often to heal or rehab. Out of the all girls she first began gym with none remain. Some were very talented, some very hard workers, but they all quit, only one of them for injury.

One of our coaches who is just 17 began gym at 10 (at another club) she was competiting at the Elite level by the time she was 13. By the time she was 14 she had quite, too much pressure and no fun. She had/has so much talent, but competing wasn't for her.

What it takes to stay in the marathon?? I guess a combination of a lot more things than talent and parental encouragement.

 

[Megley]

I'm not a coach but I expect that coaches are able to tell relatively early which kids have natural strength, flexibility and some talent for gymnastics. The unknown quantities, though, are all the rest: do they have the temperament, perserverance, inner drive, mental toughness, ability to deal with setbacks and frustration (including to overcome the numerous nagging injuries every gymnast who competes at a higher optional level winds up with), the ability to withstand the years of training and pounding without getting seriously injured or just burned out, and the ability to deal with the inevitable fear issue. This is the stuff you just cannot tell at age 4 or even at age 8 or 10 for that matter. Who knows what the future holds.

I really have to agree with hunde2 - one of the biggest determinants will be injuries. My dd has been on team for 2 1/2 yrs now and I've seen a lot of gymnasts leave the sport due to injury, followed second by fear (often sparked by difficulty dealing with a growth spurt.)

Meg

 

[gymnut1]

I see many naturally talented gymnast stop through fear issues when 9-13. When they are 13 plus it tends to be injury that gets them. Spotting the natural talent when little is easy. I am interested to know if anyone has thought about spotting fear indicators early. The children I have seen drop out through fear have tended to cry before class when little, cry when being stretched or doing splits when little. Also crying alot when falling off things, tummy aches after a fall etc. I tend to notice these things now with 6-7 year olds. Has anyone else noticed any other early indicators of fear.

 

[Panda-girl's Mom]

I think it is really hard to predict. My daughter was picked out ofher preschool class and put on preteam at 6 and team at 7. Most of these orginal girls left or switched gyms. My daughter has always struggled and had to work hard to get skills where other girls pick them up quicker. She does well at the meets but has never placed 1st her last 3 meets she placed 2,3 4 AA. My daughter is very focused and motivated and loves gymnastics. I have seen so many of the girls in her gym with poor motivation or they just quit around level 8. I have seen others who are forced to quit due to injuries. I think you just have to take it one day at a time, it is probally a combination of talent, persistence,remaining injury free and having the parental support and financing to back them up. Unfortuantely I think there are no guarentees in this sport and only a small few make it to the olympic levels or obtain college scholarships.

 

[Aussie_coach]

As you know in Australia we pick our elites when they are 4 or 5. So I would say, yes we do know which kids have the potential to be elites from this young age. But that doesn't mean they will be.

Most kids selected for elite never make it to senior international. Lots of other things can occur. Injuries, fear developing, body just grows too much and in the wrong way, financial issue's, the kid doesn't end up being driven enough or self motivated enough.

So yes we can see potential but there are no guarantees.
.

 

[Billy]

There's definitely a lot more to it than raw talent. Athletes have to be strong enough physically (not only to do the skills but to avoid injury and to deal with adjustments to accommodate growth) and strong enough mentally (to overcome fear and doubt). But also, in the end, perseverance will win out. The most talented kid can't make it to level 10 (or elite or college) if they give up and quit. The kid who sticks with it is the one who can make it. What is that quote by Albert Einstein? I think I saw it here recently. Something about not being the smartest, just sticking with the problem longer.

 

[emorymom]

I believe it is mostly a self-fulfilling prophecy to the extent early precociousness is prophetic.

(1) Precocious athletes, particularly short ones, are put in gymnastics programs to begin with because people start saying "your child should be in gym" or the parent is eager to have a safe outlet for all the tumbling. As with all kids, this gives them a chance to fall in love with gymnastics. It's less likely that a kid will have a passion for gymnastics if she never enrolls.

(2) Precocious athletes have easier entry to the pre-team and team programs. At some gyms, average kids will be shut of of decent training altogether or all but shut out. How many parents are going to be able / willing to work the system to get their somewhat above average kid out of rec classes at certain gyms? How many are simply going to be discouraged? You know what some gyms do. How many kids live in markets with only one practical gym option?

This is not on point, but USA Swimming says something like only 10% of top 100 kids at age 10 (12? not sure) are in the top 100 at age 18. They have an article about it on the USA Swimming site.

.

 

[socko]

My daughter was tapped early on for progression through the levels and was Level 10 by age 10 and has done quite well...that said, could we see it? To some extent , yes, she was the gymnast with the most talent but my concern was , will she last? Her original coaches trained her well and were able to keep her injury free until her third year of Level 10.

I agree with a lot of posters who say that what you see at 8 years old is very different from what you see even 2-3 years later...in the original group that went to Nationals with her , only half of them still are even in the sport! And those were girls with a lot of talent...but as others have said, they get to be 13-14 years old, have injuries, develop fears and it becomes a crap shoot as to whether they remain in the sport.

Fortunately for my daughter, she has stuck with it and she still loves it ten years later!!

 

[gymjourneymom]

Another novel by GJM

I'm sure a lot of you know by now how my dd's gym dream as changed from when she 1st started gymnastics. Yes, she was always tiny, solid muscle(flexibilty can still be an issue for her due to her muscular build) & strong, very strong. She never had to work hard in the lower levels, skills came relatively easy to her. Had a nice solid kip on preteam! Everyone who saw her pegged her as a "star"; coaches, other parents, upper level gymnasts(that's a lot of pressure for a little one! And part of her problem I now know). L4 went very well(that was still pre-team at our gym). She cleaned up, enjoyed herself & had an amazing year. Then L5 was the 1st time we saw any sign of fear issues. She would sporadically seem "stressed" & balk at going over the vault table, even at meets. But she went on to be L5 state AA champ, even vault state champ. She worked through her balking issue, we thought. But that was only the beginning. Gymnut, just to let you know, my DD never showed any signs of fear issues prior to this. No crying or fussing about gym ever. She just would appear "stressed" during vault practice at times. Quiet & kept to herself during those moments of stress. The opposite of her normally bouncy, out going, happy self. But she would bounce back for the next event.

Now looking back I realize this was when things starting going off path for my DD's dream of doing gymnastics in college or any higher level gymnastics. This was when fear & pressure took it's hold of her mentally. She felt like she 'had' to be perfect at skills, just getting them wasn't enough for her. So many ppl counted on her to win...to be 'perfect'. Mostly her HC & he put a lot of pressure on her. Held her to higher standards than the rest of the team. She was singled out & she felt the stress & pressure. It manifested itself as mental blocks & fear issues.

Since then fear & her 'need for perfection' has held her up at every level, stalling her progress in the sport. She has still been state champ every year. But each level is such a stressful process for her mentally. Losing skills, working so hard to get them back & going onto win with them. That seems to be her pattern the past 3 yrs. There is no doubt that my DD has everything she needs talent & determination wise to get those higher levels. But her own fear & perfectionism are holding her up. She has seen a sports psychologist & follows Doc Ali's teachings. They help her, but fear is still a constant battle for her.

Even though my DD showed no signs of fear until L5. I really wish that coaches would place emphasis on the mental aspects of this sport from the very beginning or at least when they move to team. This is a very mental sport & I think the earlier that it's addressed the better. Start teaching visualization, relaxation techniques as soon as they start competeing. I love Doc Ali's program & I wish all coaches would use at least some of her techiniques. And teach them that going for bigger skills and progressing is the ulimate goal, not just getting a title of "L5 state champ". Titles are fun...but they are no guarantee of future success. And to set the goal of going to the olympics on the preteamer??? Well, it is fun to joke about it with them. Hey, isn't every gymnast asked, "Am I going to see you in the Olympics?" by someone at some point ???. But please, don't squash them by putting that much pressure on their little(but strong )shoulders.

No one at our gym would have ever thought my DD would be repeating L7 after being state champ last year. But for her, the push to get new skills overwhelms her (she expects herself to do new skills perfectly) & she ends up losing skills she already beautifully had. For her it's a 1 step forward 2 or 3 steps back situation. I know her situation is unique. She is a severe case of fear issues & mental blocks. I think most girls in her situation would have just quit the sport by now. But she still loves it! So off she goes to the gym everyday. I support her & I'm proud of her determination no matter what level she is.

I know when some preteam parents(especially ones with very talented gymmies) are sitting watching every class, many expect to see a new skill every week or so. They expect that that is the way this sport will progress for their DD all the way up to elite. And that is unfortunately not the reality, at all. No where even close. The skills become much bigger & more difficult. Most preteamers, even the most talented ones won't stick with the sport thru compulsories, let alone optionals for one reason or another(as others have said). That is the reality of this sport.

So I guess my hope for you newer gym parents is that you take this sport for what it is. Something your DD's are enjoying at this moment. Please don't pin any future elite or olympic dreams on them at this point, even if they are the "star" of their class. Pressure is a mental killer to some gymnasts. If they are enjoying themselves, learning & progressing, that is ALL that really matters in early levels(actually, I guess that's true for ALL levels). Gymnastics is such a long path with many bumps & twists & turns. There are no "sure things" in this sport. No one knows(not even coaches) what the future holds...so just enjoy today! And tell your little gymmie how proud you are of her!

 

[MdGymMom01]

GJM--what an excellent post!! So insightful, heartfelt and REAL. Gymnastics has to be one of the most unpredictable sports and there are certainly no guarantees. My dd also struggles with fear issues and I can totally relate. I have found that the best way to get through this sport is take it one day at a time. LITERALLY.

 

[emorymom]

What I have read about "burnout" and early bloomers is that it is not necessarily burnout from overtraining or being pushed like people think. It's that the early bloomers can get the idea that winning is the status quo. At some point the late bloomers catch up and the early bloomers are working for less reward. It's the change in perception of effort to benefit that creates "burnout."

So the concern for the early blooming athlete is over reward at the lower levels. When that stops happening, does she

(1) keep at it with good consistent effort, even though she's not getting the constant reinforcement of her former superstar situation; say to herself "oh well, I still love gymnastics even though I am now average at my level" and wait to rise towards the top again;

(2) go like crazy trying to get back to / stay on top; may get hurt, tired, GENUINE burnout (perhaps caused by coaches trying to keep her on top); or

(3) say, Gee if I can't win anymore the way I've been going, I'm through with it. (False burnout)