WAG Entering Div 1 NCAA as a Freshman...with College Credits

[Seeker]

I am aware of some programs available for high school students that allow them to take College courses as a high school student. Sometimes this is called "dual enrollment" (dually enrolled in high school and college). Some of the programs I have seen allow the student to just take classes of their choice and other programs lead to an Associates Degree.

So, here's the question....

If a recruitable athlete is in a program that leads to an Associates Degree (presumably to be granted at the end of their Sr year in HS), would that student have to go through the NCAA Clearinghouse? Or would they be deemed a transfer student?

Would/could it depend on the college they were applying to (dependent upon whether the degree they have is an acceptable transfer to a 4-yr program)?

In the other case, where the student just takes some classes at the community college, but not leading to a degree, I presume those classes would be counted as HS courses on their transcript?

Anyone have any experience or background here? TIA!

 

[MILgymFAM]

It is confusing! It seems like if you get the associates you would be a transfer student. This is difficult because on the ncaa website it says that transfer students have to take 24 units over the final two semesters. In dual enrollment and early college the classes are pretty spread out. If you take college classes without a degree, you can use them to satisfy requirements if you also get high school credit for them.. I think. It's so confusing! I'm so glad college sports aren't in our future!

My ODD is starting her first college class in January, so I'm glad I don't have to worry about all this.

 

[MeetDirector]

The NCAA Eligibility center does not seem to address your situation specifically. It does say that the college courses have to appear on the HS transcript.

 

[MeetDirector]

I forgot to add that this is probably handled very similarly to AP credits earned in HS. The incoming freshman will start her college career with some amount of college credit on the books.

 

[MILgymFAM]

I forgot to add that this is probably handled very similarly to AP credits earned in HS. The incoming freshman will start her college career with some amount of college credit on the books.

Yes, but if a program leads to an associates degree then student cannot be a freshman- more like a junior, no? I'm not even sure how they could be a freshman with 30-40 credits. It seems that the NCAA isn't equipped to handle students who are ahead of the curve in terms of academics. They haven't caught up to some of the trends in education. Obviously a kid who's been taking college classes successfully for years should sail through their clearinghouse, but it's just more hoops to jump through.

 

[wallinbl]

I forgot to add that this is probably handled very similarly to AP credits earned in HS. The incoming freshman will start her college career with some amount of college credit on the books.

Around here, you can graduate high school with an AA (two year college degree) by taking community college courses in place of your high school courses (it's actually a high school run by the community college). They count for high school credit, but you also get college credit because they were offered by the community college.

I don't have any specifics, but I can't imagine that it harms your athletic eligibility. I know that locally, they must compete in their zoned high school sports rather than for the college.

 

[profmom]

Caveat: I know nothing about NCAA, so this post doesn't speak to equivalency issues. Transfer courses and credits, however, are definitely in my wheelhouse!

Please be advised that courses taken at community colleges may not transfer as direct equivalents of courses with the same names at every four-year university. If you're looking at a state CC, it most likely has a good relationship with the state's four-year universities and transfer credits are set up to be direct equivalents in many cases, but once you're trying to transfer community college or university in the high school program credits from one system to another, the process may not be as smooth.

My advice: the best courses to take with the intention of transferring credits are basic foundational courses in objective areas like foreign language and math, and courses that will cover required general education areas. If the aim is a four-year degree with a possibility of graduate education afterward, your child is best off taking most of her/his courses in the major at that university rather than transferring a bunch of the credits in. To give just one example, let's say your child is interested in history. A smart and hardworking child may well get a high enough score on the AP US history exam to get out of a college-level into survey on US history; however, that survey history course may be taught by one of the best researchers in the field at a level beyond what is possible even in the best high school courses. Furthermore, the more courses someone takes on site in her/his major, the better s/he gets to know the faculty, and the better, on average, her or his experience will be in the major. It's also helpful for figuring out which faculty members are the best fit for students and for students' building relationships with faculty members over successive courses so that the students can get more substantive letters of recommendation at the end of the road.

 

[sevenatenine2]

Yes, but if a program leads to an associates degree then student cannot be a freshman- more like a junior, no? I'm not even sure how they could be a freshman with 30-40 credits. It seems that the NCAA isn't equipped to handle students who are ahead of the curve in terms of academics. They haven't caught up to some of the trends in education. Obviously a kid who's been taking college classes successfully for years should sail through their clearinghouse, but it's just more hoops to jump through.

My daughter had almost two years of college completed before starting her "freshman" year. She was accepted into the college as a freshman versus a transfer and was able to live in freshman housing because less than a certain amount of hours (15, maybe?) had been acquired after graduating from high school. Once she was in the housing and accepted, she was classified as as sophomore.

By the way, one of the best things we ever did for her was insisting she take those classes. She applied to nursing school from high school and graduated with a BSN (a 4 year degree) two and a half years after entering college. Her college also ran about 30k a year, so saved us (and her) about 60k!

 

[Seeker]

Around here, you can graduate high school with an AA (two year college degree) by taking community college courses in place of your high school courses (it's actually a high school run by the community college). They count for high school credit, but you also get college credit because they were offered by the community college.

I don't have any specifics, but I can't imagine that it harms your athletic eligibility. I know that locally, they must compete in their zoned high school sports rather than for the college.

The program that I was speaking of is similar to this....just made me wonder how that would be evaluated by both the NCAA and the prospective college.

 

[wallinbl]

The program that I was speaking of is similar to this....just made me wonder how that would be evaluated by both the NCAA and the prospective college.

If it's similar to what we have, state universities will accept most, if not all, of the credits. Private schools and out of state schools will have a course equivalency mapping that will vary widely by school and course. Of course, I had the mapping problem transferring from one state's major university to another state's major university, so there are no guarantees no matter how you go about this.

 

[Seeker]

My daughter had almost two years of college completed before starting her "freshman" year. She was accepted into the college as a freshman versus a transfer and was able to live in freshman housing because less than a certain amount of hours (15, maybe?) had been acquired after graduating from high school. Once she was in the housing and accepted, she was classified as as sophomore.

By the way, one of the best things we ever did for her was insisting she take those classes. She applied to nursing school from high school and graduated with a BSN (a 4 year degree) two and a half years after entering college. Her college also ran about 30k a year, so saved us (and her) about 60k!

Did she do an NCAA sport?

 

[sevenatenine2]

No, she did not.

My understanding is that as long as they are taking less than twelve hours a semester, then they are not a full time student and their 5 year clock does not start. If the program you are speaking of is over 12 hours a semester, then that may start her clock of eligibility.

 

[gymmutti]

We have a 5-year high school program at the local 4-yr university where kids end with 2 years of fully transferable credit (not community college, but 4 year public university). I really, really wanted my DD to try and get in. However, since the high school is 5 years and not 4, there are a lot of questions as to whether she could compete NCAA (her dream, definitely not mine) since high school classes would not be complete in 4 years. Because she couldn't get answers - she has nixed it off her high school options. I am sad as I think it would have been perfect for her (focus on math and engineering - her strengths).

 

[Muddlethru]

Yes, but if a program leads to an associates degree then student cannot be a freshman- more like a junior, no? I'm not even sure how they could be a freshman with 30-40 credits. It seems that the NCAA isn't equipped to handle students who are ahead of the curve in terms of academics. They haven't caught up to some of the trends in education. Obviously a kid who's been taking college classes successfully for years should sail through their clearinghouse, but it's just more hoops to jump through.

1) You can be a freshman even with 100 credits. It is not the number of credits that determines your grade, but the credits that are transferrable to the individual college.

2) and they do. The NCAA clearinghouse requirements are pretty low.

 

[MILgymFAM]

1) You can be a freshman even with 100 credits. It is not the number of credits that determines your grade, but the credits that are transferrable to the individual college.

2) and they do. The NCAA clearinghouse requirements are pretty low.

For all the talk of credits not transferring, I've never personally seen that problem. When I said with 30-40 credits, I thought it was understood I meant credits which do transfer into the college in question. The clearinghouse might be simple, but if it is then it is designed to look confusing. My DD, for example, won't be eligible. We 'homeschool' according to the state of CA, but not according to the NCAA. They don't recognize her online program and don't consider her a homeschooler either. In her case only the college classes she takes can meet her core requirements, and none of her HS courses will. As I've stated, there is 0% chance this is an issue for us, but we can't be the only family with an alternative education plan that's harder to fit into boxes.

 

[gymgal]

For all the talk of credits not transferring, I've never personally seen that problem. When I said with 30-40 credits, I thought it was understood I meant credits which do transfer into the college in question. The clearinghouse might be simple, but if it is then it is designed to look confusing. My DD, for example, won't be eligible. We 'homeschool' according to the state of CA, but not according to the NCAA. They don't recognize her online program and don't consider her a homeschooler either. In her case only the college classes she takes can meet her core requirements, and none of her HS courses will. As I've stated, there is 0% chance this is an issue for us, but we can't be the only family with an alternative education plan that's harder to fit into boxes.

If you don't mind me asking, what program are you using that NCAA won't recognize it? They recognize online classes as long as the teacher is actively involved. It can't just be all video/power point led.

 

[MILgymFAM]

If you don't mind me asking, what program are you using that NCAA won't recognize it? They recognize online classes as long as the teacher is actively involved. It can't just be all video/power point led.

We use Oak Meadow. There are no power points or videos. It is text based with teachers for each subject. From my understanding at this time, more distance Ed is not accepted than accepted.

ETA: this is our first year out of public school and I can say unequivocally that my girls courses are harder than they have ever been and the amount of time more than they have spent.

 

[ZJsMom]

If you don't mind me asking, what program are you using that NCAA won't recognize it? They recognize online classes as long as the teacher is actively involved. It can't just be all video/power point led.

The NCAA now requires that there be a limited time period for the class with a defined start and end date. A lot of people around here use BYU online classes--both my kids have taken them--and they do not meet NCAA criteria.

 

[MILgymFAM]

The NCAA now requires that there be a limited time period for the class with a defined start and end date. A lot of people around here use BYU online classes--both my kids have taken them--and they do not meet NCAA criteria.

It's even more than that, no? Our courses have a definitive timeline, with midterms (and midterm grades) and finals with final grades. It isn't self paced and the school year is exactly 36 weeks long. I wonder what are all the things a school must do? I know that Oak Meadow used to have NCAA approval and lost it.

 

[thefellowsmom]

Here is the ncaa clearinghouse non traditional coursework requirement page. Thought it might be helpful.

http://www.ncaa.org/student-athletes/future/nontraditional-courses