Women Fear or something else?

[luv2gym]

I need some guidance! I apologize for the length of this post in advance!! My DD is a 9 year old Level 6. Actually, they just had their State Meet, so she should be training for Level 7 now. Best meet she’s ever had…scored a 38.5 all around (sorry, proud mama moment!!) When she was 7, she was doing her robhsbt pretty consistently; however, one random day at practice it looked like she totally forgot what she was doing and froze mid-air in the middle of her back tuck and landed straight on her back. She was ok and went about the rest of practice. A couple of weeks later, same thing happened again, only this time it led to her becoming more and more afraid of the skill. Her coach’s (one coach in particular) way of getting her past her fear was every single wrong tactic possible.

One day I came to practice and the coach had her on the trampoline for how knows how long before I got there, but my DD was standing there in tears, frozen with fear and unable to move while her coach told her she couldn’t go home until she did 10 in a row. Coaches would tell her they would spot her and then move at the last moment and not actually spot her. This one coach had some of the older girls tell my DD that she would never win any meets if she didn’t start doing this one skill. Told her they would move her to the baby group, etc, etc, etc. Fast forward weeks of bullying, demeaning and degrading by this one particular coach, actions and things said that I won’t even mention or repeat because I get so angry, she completely stopped all backwards tumbling. My once, never could get enough of the gym child, was now scared of gym. I had no idea just how bad it was until the anxiety and fear and tears started coming out and showing themselves while we were at home.

Needless to say, we moved gyms; however, so much damage had already been done. When we moved gyms, they moved her down a level to take the pressure off. We moved in the middle of competition season and elected not to let her compete-we just wanted her to go to practice, get to know the girls, the coaches, and just start having fun again. Her new coaches were awesome and by the time the next compulsory season started (last August), she was tumbling backwards again, even doing her robhsbt. Now, when she did her robhsbt it was SOOOOO slow. I’m assuming it was her way of having control since so much control was taken away from her at her old gym.

She competed Level 5 in August and then Level 6 in January. She did fairly well at both, just not quite back to her old, confident self. Then, she hit her toes on the pit bar in practice while doing flyaways and she started having fear about the flyaway. At one of her recent meets, they had her scratch bars because she balked a few times in warm up, which seemed to be the perfect response. So if you are still with me after reading all of that….here’s my question. Should we pursue counseling with a sports psychologist? I know some parents are pretty adamant they would never do that just because their child was facing fear and while I may even agree with that, I don’t think this is your average, every day fear. So much trust and control was taken from her, I’m wondering if counseling is the right move. The very last thing we want to do is make things worse, say or do the wrong thing and have the fear spread like it did before. It was such a hard, painful year for her to come back, I do not want her to go back to the mental, frozen place she was! Her coaches are being awesome and have made many concessions for her, but there will come a point over the summer where if she isn’t doing what she needs to for level 7, flyaway and layout, she’ll have to move down to a different group, which I’m worried will only further decrease her confidence. She doesn’t want to quit gymnastics, she so badly wants to be able to move away from the fear, she just doesn’t know how. I would love some coaches’ points of view and some experienced parent’s point of view!! Any suggestions?

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Well,,, Nothing you can do about the past. That being said, Flyaway fears are pretty common and the last thing I would worry about is what group or level she goes next year. In fact you should tell her that you are TOTALLY fine with her going 6 again (even though she probably won't, because the jump from 6 to 7 is pretty basic). Doc Ali is a great resource to use and she may like taking her online classes. I have had several of my gymnasts take her course with great success. But obviously at the same time you don't want to "make an issue" of the baulking or it could trigger more. So walk lightly and just sign her up for the course because it deals with recognizing / managing stress etc... In the mean time have lots of patience, and I would avoid privates for baulking. good luck.

 

[luv2gym]

Thank you! We have not even talked about what level she may or may not be next year, but I will definitely make sure she knows whatever happens is totally fine with us!! I'm definitely not worried about the level so much as that old fear re-surfacing. Or should I say that old way she dealt with the fear before-the tailspin. I want her to have the proper tools to deal with it, no matter what skill it happens to be-she's only ever had that extremely negative situation to draw from so I'd like to replace some of that negative with positive. I know she has different coaches and it's a different environment, but man, that was a rough year for everyone and I certainly don't wanna be back in that position ever again Sounds like the Doc Ali program may be a good fit! Thanks again, I really appreciate the voice of experience!!

 

[Gym proud]

Do a search on Doc Ali,I'm think you will find some great stuff!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

I need some guidance! I apologize for the length of this post in advance!! My DD is a 9 year old Level 6. Actually, they just had their State Meet, so she should be training for Level 7 now. Best meet she’s ever had…scored a 38.5 all around (sorry, proud mama moment!!) When she was 7, she was doing her robhsbt pretty consistently; however, one random day at practice it looked like she totally forgot what she was doing and froze mid-air in the middle of her back tuck and landed straight on her back. She was ok and went about the rest of practice. A couple of weeks later, same thing happened again, only this time it led to her becoming more and more afraid of the skill. Her coach’s (one coach in particular) way of getting her past her fear was every single wrong tactic possible.

One day I came to practice and the coach had her on the trampoline for how knows how long before I got there, but my DD was standing there in tears, frozen with fear and unable to move while her coach told her she couldn’t go home until she did 10 in a row. Coaches would tell her they would spot her and then move at the last moment and not actually spot her. This one coach had some of the older girls tell my DD that she would never win any meets if she didn’t start doing this one skill. Told her they would move her to the baby group, etc, etc, etc. Fast forward weeks of bullying, demeaning and degrading by this one particular coach, actions and things said that I won’t even mention or repeat because I get so angry, she completely stopped all backwards tumbling. My once, never could get enough of the gym child, was now scared of gym. I had no idea just how bad it was until the anxiety and fear and tears started coming out and showing themselves while we were at home.

Needless to say, we moved gyms; however, so much damage had already been done. When we moved gyms, they moved her down a level to take the pressure off. We moved in the middle of competition season and elected not to let her compete-we just wanted her to go to practice, get to know the girls, the coaches, and just start having fun again. Her new coaches were awesome and by the time the next compulsory season started (last August), she was tumbling backwards again, even doing her robhsbt. Now, when she did her robhsbt it was SOOOOO slow. I’m assuming it was her way of having control since so much control was taken away from her at her old gym.

She competed Level 5 in August and then Level 6 in January. She did fairly well at both, just not quite back to her old, confident self. Then, she hit her toes on the pit bar in practice while doing flyaways and she started having fear about the flyaway. At one of her recent meets, they had her scratch bars because she balked a few times in warm up, which seemed to be the perfect response. So if you are still with me after reading all of that….here’s my question. Should we pursue counseling with a sports psychologist? I know some parents are pretty adamant they would never do that just because their child was facing fear and while I may even agree with that, I don’t think this is your average, every day fear. So much trust and control was taken from her, I’m wondering if counseling is the right move. The very last thing we want to do is make things worse, say or do the wrong thing and have the fear spread like it did before. It was such a hard, painful year for her to come back, I do not want her to go back to the mental, frozen place she was! Her coaches are being awesome and have made many concessions for her, but there will come a point over the summer where if she isn’t doing what she needs to for level 7, flyaway and layout, she’ll have to move down to a different group, which I’m worried will only further decrease her confidence. She doesn’t want to quit gymnastics, she so badly wants to be able to move away from the fear, she just doesn’t know how. I would love some coaches’ points of view and some experienced parent’s point of view!! Any suggestions?

1. perfect example of vestibular.

2. no. the reason she is "going so slow" is because she is a very fast muscle twitched kid. you need to go back and read my post on vestibular. she is slowing herself down to a speed that her vestibular system can manage. if you can understand this, she feels like she is traveling 100 mph, when in reality she is moving 10.

3. no. it won't fix the problem. anyone who says it will, or that it did is being disingenuous. trying anything may work at different times but will not permanently fix this problem and will only be anecdotal. you must wait for her vestibular system to mature.

4. only if you want to make her feel better about herself. but the issue isn't going away. SOMEONE needs to sit down with her and explain what the vestibular system is, that what she's going thru is okay and that she hasn't done anything wrong.

 

[luv2gym]

@dunno Thank you for your insight!! Totally makes sense that her previous incident stemmed from vestibular issues. Two years ago when this all began, I read through all of the information you have posted; however, I am definitely going to go back through and read it again. Unfortunately she was made to believe it was all her fault and that she was doing "something" wrong. I guess that's where I was thinking the counseling may help. But, I will be sure that I explain the vestibular issues to her and make sure she understands she is not doing anything wrong!!

I LOVE the explanation of the "going so slow" on her robhsbt. Makes total sense-big aha moment for me!! Wonder how I can gently bring this to the attention of her coach??

I didn't equate the flyaway fear to vestibular only because it seemed to stem from a specific incident in the gym where she hit her toes on the bar during a drill and ended up in the pit, along with her coach Any chance of that vestibular system maturing around age 10 LOL

 

[profmom]

I don't think counseling does a thing for vestibular issues. It can, however, help to repair the damage that appallingly bad coaching can do to a child who has experienced vestibular issues.

Flyaway issues can be fear, vestibular, or both. I'm pretty confident that I've seen all three flavors.

The issues will clear up when they do, and it may take some time. Clearly your DD has some real ability, so play the patience/waiting game and try, hard though it is, not to get invested in any time frames. I've told this story before, but my DD went through two years of vestibular issues on beam and managed to come out on the other side as "still a JO gymnast." Her beam coach handled the whole thing really well.

 

[luv2gym]

@profmom That's what I was thinking about the counseling also!! Would like to give her the opportunity to learn a few positive tools to deal with true fear (not vestibular) issues in the future.

We will continue playing the patience/waiting game I see her frustration and can see how very much she wants to be able to do the skills, but just can't make herself do them-it's just plain ole hard for a mama to see lol!!

 

[trampolinemom]

My 8 year old son is going through this with a skill (cody on trampoline) at the moment as well. He told us that his body just froze and he then was very angry at himself because he just didn't push through hard enough and probably didn't want it bad enough. And he knew he could do the skill. And though I am just finding out what this vestibular thing is I thought I'd share my experience with you.

What seems to help my son is to think of his body as a young puppy he has to train. The puppy is very talented and eager but also young and has to learn a lot. To learn the puppy tricks you should be kind and patient. The puppy is also growing fast and this means that you sometimes have to repeat things that he has already learned because with his new body things work differently. Or the puppy sometimes gets confused and you have to reassure it and take a small step back. This is all normal when training a puppy.

For your daughter it's extra hard since she had such a bad experience with her former coach. I hope she pulls through and will enjoy her gymnastics.

 

[sewgood]

Well, I definitely think some counseling is order. Not because of the fear issue (and honestly, that in and of itself seems more like a sensory thing to me, as other have stated). BUT, this poor girl was verbally, mentally and emotionally abused by people that she trusted. I would recommend counseling for anyone in that situation, whether they were abused by a spouse/significant other, parent, employer, coach, whatever. She needs a safe space to process all that.

The sensory/vestibular thing is a whole different ball of wax. Unfortunately, with your daughter, I think you are looking at both (the vestibular issues which led to the abuse issues), both of which need to be addressed. So, yes, I think she needs counseling, just make sure that it is treated as something to address the abuse she suffered, not that you want them to try to counsel the vestibular problems out of her (that won't work, anyway).

In terms of addressing the sensory issues, I think maybe just explaining what vestibular challenges are and what they mean to gymnasts is all you really need to do for that. It'll come when comes, kwim?

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Just for the record, hitting your toes on the bar and then having fear of doing it again Is not vestibular..... It's called "ouch that hurt" and I don't want to do that again... The treatment is, a coach needs to get up on a block and spot her through it again. Two different issues, with one originally causing the other.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

actually, CoachP, the vestibular issue on flyaways is consistent with what everyone calls the "backwards" problem. initially, the kid 'thinks' they are going to fall on their head when they let go. so, they then hold on too long to compensate and then end up hitting the bar.

it's the convincing them, as a flyaway is only a 1/2 somersault, that it's almost impossible to land on your head even if you do a crappy flyaway.

it's that 'sense' that they will fall on their head that is vestibular when rotating backwards. sometimes, if you can convince them, you have to explain to the kid that they are actually going/swinging forward. that it's not 'really' a 'backward skill'. this causes them to focus their eyes differently whereby looking forward instead of up. it works with some kids but not all because each kid is so very different from the other.

the challenges of gymnastics...

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

My son is also experiencing a fear of flyaways from hitting his toes. It was the one skill he picked up so quickly and was doing them so consistently until then. It totally freaked him out. His coach eventually had him go back to being spotted on timer tucks over and over. He wo do his flyaway but only after being spotted on them 4 or 5 times before he would let go of the bar. He competed them at 1 meet this season. His coach was trying to wean him off having so many spots before actually going for the skill himself but that just caused him to start balking again. I too attributed it to the hitting of his toes but will ask a few more questions (I have just not talked about it with him so I wouldn't add more pressure).
My daughter who also had fear issues (hmmmm...could it be hereditary? lol) did Doc Ali's webcamp and found it very helpful in giving her personal strategies to deal with her fears ( or vestibular issues).

 

[Deleted member 14190]

actually, CoachP, the vestibular issue on flyaways is consistent with what everyone calls the "backwards" problem. initially, the kid 'thinks' they are going to fall on their head when they let go. so, they then hold on too long to compensate and then end up hitting the bar.

it's the convincing them, as a flyaway is only a 1/2 somersault, that it's almost impossible to land on your head even if you do a crappy flyaway.

it's that 'sense' that they will fall on their head that is vestibular when rotating backwards. sometimes, if you can convince them, you have to explain to the kid that they are actually going/swinging forward. that it's not 'really' a 'backward skill'. this causes them to focus their eyes differently whereby looking forward instead of up. it works with some kids but not all because each kid is so very different from the other.

the challenges of gymnastics...

I will agree to disagree on that one.