"flat feet", very interesting

[sportyfam5]

I thought that many of you may find this interesting. My daughter has been having trouble with her back, ankles, and endurance. We started PT for her ankles, chiropractor for her back and were still unsure of endurance. One of her coaches who is also a PT noticed she had pretty "flat feet" due to the weakness in her ankle. She suggested arch supports. Her PT agreed. I also mentioned this to the chiropractor who then did some testing. He discovered that her feet are pronanted and her arch has very little support which is causing ankle and back pain. Now here is where it gets interesting. He also did a test that reveiled when she lands on her feet a shock runs through her body causing weakness all over. So the trouble with her arches is likely the cause of her low endurance levels. Who would have thought? Day one with the arch supports and she felt great, she finds them very comfortable. We are still deciding what she should wear for practice to support her arches though. Hopefully with some time her troubles will heal

 

[Deleted member D3987]

juliet bangerter would tell you not to by the snake oil...but the arch inserts will be helpful.

 

[Kiwi]

There was another thread about arch supports here recently: Link Removed

I have 'posturally flat feet' - I have high arches that don't arch when my foot is relaxed, only when I am activating muscles in my foot by raising my toes, for example. The arches act as shock absorbers, so it doesn't surprise me about the 'shock' travelling through the body. I believe there are exercises that can help to strengthen the foot muscles and train them to maintain the arch. (Still wanting to buy that Lisa Howell book, but haven't actually got it yet).

 

[bogwoppit]

MY youngest wears fabs arch supports to help with her flat feet. Wouldn't go near a chiro with a cattle prod though! Flat feet have long been known to cause mechanical problems and pain from running.

 

[GymnasChic915]

For in the gym you can tape her feet. I also have flat feet and that is what I do. Just make sure to tape towards the outside of her foot.

 

[coachmolly]

Thanks for the info, hopefully the shoe inserts will help with all of your DDs aches and pains. I had a lot of problems with my legs as a gymnast, and still have a decent amount to this day, but I don't remember a doctor ever taking a look at my feet. It would be interesting to find out if there is some kind of connection. I have a family history of foot problems (turned in feet, weak/turning in ankles) so it wouldn't be surprising to find there is some underlying issue stemming from the formation of my feet. It's surprising that as many times as I went to the doctor as a gymnast no one ever thought to look at that.
People always comment on my toe point, not sure if that could be related to an arch issue or just flexible feet and the workout of those muscles over time.

 

[sportyfam5]

Do you know if she should just tape around the center of her foot or the normal way for an ankle?

 

[gymdog]

Okay here is the issue with flat feet. When everyone walks the foot pronates somewhat - that is how your foot works to prevent too much stress on any part of the foot - it's called the Windlass mechanism. The windlass mechanism allows the foot to act as a lever and the plantar fascia which runs along the foot can work as a spring. When there is excessive pronation, then the plantar fascia is overstretching, which causes a few problems - it can affect the achilles tendon. The effect closest to what you're describing is that before a "toe off" action, the plantar fascia during ideal functioning is like a spring which can play a role in conserving energy throughout the motion. If the foot overpronates, in other words, it's generally more difficult for the athlete to get to their toes in the next stage of movement and linear momentum/energy is lost in that process. However this relates to conservation of energy throughout the movement - in this case a tumbling pass (i.e. it contributes to a tumbling pass looking labored or slow). Usually a lack of endurance is poor endurance though - it's not necessarily the same thing. I suppose they could be somewhat related but both need to be improved in their own right, to my thinking.

Someone with a better grasp of biomechanics can probably correct or more fully explain this. I am not a biomechanist, but I have heard some lectures on it, so this is my basic understanding.

Edit: I just read your post again and I've never heard anything like a shock causing weakness all over. Anyway, overpronation causes issues by putting other tendons on stretch and affecting how forces are distributed in the foot, but arch supports aren't likely to address weakness or lack of endurance in my opinion.

 

[Kiwi]

Okay here is the issue with flat feet. When everyone walks the foot pronates somewhat - that is how your foot works to prevent too much stress on any part of the foot - it's called the Windlass mechanism. The windlass mechanism allows the foot to act as a lever and the plantar fascia which runs along the foot can work as a spring. When there is excessive pronation, then the plantar fascia is overstretching, which causes a few problems - it can affect the achilles tendon.

This is really interesting. My achilles tendons are okay, but I've had problems with plantar fascia pain in my right foot since my teens.

Another problem is, when I'm trying to balance on one foot, for example in a scale balance, my foot flattens and rolls in so it wobbles.

 

[staceyb]

Do you know if she should just tape around the center of her foot or the normal way for an ankle?

Ask your physio, or doctor to show you how to do it. The tape has to be put on in the right direction and with the right amount of tension for it to support the arch properly and not damage the foot in some other way.

 

[gymdog]

This is really interesting. My achilles tendons are okay, but I've had problems with plantar fascia pain in my right foot since my teens.

Another problem is, when I'm trying to balance on one foot, for example in a scale balance, my foot flattens and rolls in so it wobbles.

Yes, overpronation in most cases is actually the foot rolling inward when it's not flexed or free (i.e. during the midfoot strike or standing on it). This happens in running and walking too, but you probably notice it less. An arch is of course most pronounced on the inside of the foot, so the rolling inwards flattens this part of the foot and foot overpronates. This is generally related to ankle weakness as I understand it because the ankle cannot support the foot, so the foot rolls inwards as a natural mechanism. But some arch is still present, technically, the foot just appears flattened.

Also, ligament damage in the ankle (and the foot, but ankle damage is more common especially when overpronation is involved) has an effect on communication with the neuromuscular system, which can make it hard to, for example, get to your toes fast or balance. I can't explain this very well, but that was basically how it was explained to me. Ligaments are essential for balance and and receive proprioceptive and sensory data in movement, so damage affects functioning.

 

[GetaGrip]

Interesting! I wouldn't have thought that it was related.

The tape idea sounds like it would work. I've seen many gymnasts have tape around their feet, it's good to know why now.

 

[bpatient]

I’m a bit late to this thread, I’m afraid, but I’d like to offer a few comments based on the experience of my dd, who is rather like a prototypical gymnast from the knees up but resembles me (and her grandfather, who walked like a duck) from the knees down.
Flat feet and excessive pronation can be associated with some other problems (such as posterior tibial tendinitis or plantar fasciiatis) which can be troubling for gymnasts, who—unlike athletes in most other sports—usually perform barefoot. With the support of various orthopedists, podiatrists, sports medicine specialists, and physical therapists, this is what dd does:

1) She uses high-quality but generic “Superfeetâ€￾ orthotic insoles in her everyday shoes as well as in her “inside shoesâ€￾ here at home, where my Chinese wife, dd and I otherwise remove our shoes. These insoles are quite nice (dd uses the “greenâ€￾ version, which provides the most arch support in the range), but, at around $30 per pair, are much less costly than custom orthotics.
2) She does almost-daily strength training for her calves and feet, particularly a variety of toe raises with two times her body weight.
3) She doesn’t use Fabs or any sort of taping at the gym, because the first two measures have overcome her earlier problems.

 

[gymnastjess]

juliet bangerter would tell you not to by the snake oil...but the arch inserts will be helpful.

Bog how did you 'like' this post?

 

[NotAMom]

Bog how did you 'like' this post?

Pan over the post. Look for a "like" to appear on the right.