WAG Gym Challenges and TOPS question

[LJL07]

^oh, yes, as gymdog said above, the minimum age is 7 for new level 4. I guess that explains why there are zero 6 yr olds competing it.

 

[GYM0M]

Did the coaches select a handful from the developmental program or did they have an actual tryout?

Is it possible that the coaches are aware that you are not able to commit to the extra practices and this is why ur DD was not selected?
TOPS requires an incredible commitment on the gymnast but just as great on the parent/caregiver.

TOPS is very selective in our gym as well. We have about 10 that will test next summer, but our ENTIRE team trains TOPS, which is new but has made a world of difference!

I know moms can be snooty, but if you show your frustration, that will only make it worse (or at least you will perceive it as such.) I have avoided parents that I sense are upset over a gym decision that involved my dd and their dd. Our gym is growing and expanding and there have been several new implements that have caused a great divide if you will. I'm sorry that this is happening, but some people, like me, choose to avoid the conversation but I personally never feel that my dd has any more or less talent than anyone else.

Each gymnast has the right amount of talent for THEIR path. Each journey will differ so much. The best we can do as parents is give them the opportunities to pursue what they love.

 

[onelittledream]

Anyone who trains TOPS at our gym does it during private coaching (I think) because I do not see that we have a TOPS class separate from the team classes. I know that my DD private coach has her doing most of the TOPS training (because my DD asked for it) but I got her into gym too late and the chances of her testing into the oldest TOPS group are very slim. Owner and coach have both thrown around HOPES and Junior Elite when talking about DD but right now she is level 4 so who knows about later maybe she will maybe she will not.

I feel for you with the divide between parents, this happens at our gym too, for various reasons. I started asking my husband to come to gym practices because my DD asked be to please continue staying at them and I just felt way too uncomfortable with some of the comments and sideways glances I was getting from other parents. I don't know the answer for that because i STILL have not found it out for myself. But I do feel for you because I know it is hard.

 

[GymmieC]

I am sorry that your DD has to deal with such craziness. The fact that most coaches are not forced to study child psychology is what in my opinion leads to the secretive, crazy atmospheres in some gyms.
It is unfortunate that a six year old has to feel inadequate when in reality she has to be amazing just to keep up in this sport altogether. My DD never did TOPs. Thank goodness really. Because I have met plenty of TOPs moms who really have stars in their eyes. Gymnastics is indeed a lovely sport. It helps a child learn so many valuable lessons. But like many have said, this sport is a marathon. So many things can happen.
Gym came easy to DD early on, she is only 10- well she'd say 11 since her birthday is next month, but now she has to work harder to get the skills. That is all in the lessons gym teaches the child.
I agree that you need to talk with the coaches though. Sometimes it all can be a misunderstanding. Either way, you will know exactly the reason why she wasn't selected. The mom who told you that you should remove your child from the team is setting herself up for bad karma. If any parent thinks their child is better than anyone elses seriously has not learned the lesson that there is Always someone better. Hence when their child falls they will inevitably and unfortunately fall Hard. What a terrible lesson to learn.
If after your talk with the coaches you feel a negative vibe, walk with your child. At six yo she is capable of anything. At 12, the child can surprise you! What is that saying..."Hard work beats talent, when talent stops working. My son's wrestling coach used to quote that often.

 

[Committed]

IMO, there are a couple of ways to look at this. First of all, it does sound like there is a weird secrecy issue and that one mom was totally out of line.

Hopefully, the us vs. them mentality you talk about it just temporary. It sounds like the TOPs thing is pretty new for your age group. Hopefully, once it's no longer new, some of the awkwardness goes away, though it will most likely spring up once you hit summertime and they start testing. Those parents will probably get all buddy-buddy again while discussing the testing, traveling, skills, etc.
When there are group/level changes, often there is a weird awkwardness that charges the air. I'm not sure why: jealousy? perceived jealousy? IDK.

Good luck.

 

[wallflower]

First of all, I'm sorry that you and your DD feel left out.
That said, I'm going to be blunt (and please bear in mind that I do not know your DD at all, this is just a blanket statement about TOPs which I am very familiar with): not all kids are TOPs material. At our gym, the selective process is very strict and only the kids who are deemed to have certain qualities (body type, muscle to weight ratio, raw talent, attitude and coachability) AND who are young enough will get invited to even the lowest level TOPs training. My own DD certainly isn't TOPs material.... She did the program for about 6mo and it was invaluable to her as it helped her gain enough strength to be able to successfully go straight into L4 instead of doing L3 when she joined team. There are girls on her team, in the same level who DO do TOPs, most are younger than her. Most are better gymnasts than her, but not in everything. tOPs kids have their limitations and issues just like all other gymnasts, and some of our most successful girls didn't do TOps at all. Some did.
I'm a big believer in the program as far as identifying potential, training with the goal of achieving strength and skills faster and fast tracking some girls through the system. It doesn't always work that way, but even when it doesn't, the benefits are obvious.
It is not however, some sort of "if you're not in TOps you're never going to make it in gymnastics" scenario. Plenty of very talented, very successful gymnasts didn't do TOPs.
If your DD and you are seriously interested in perusing TOPs, ask straight up what your DD needs to work on to be considered. Be aware that it is a VERY age oriented program and girls age out rather quickly. You need to have a kid with all the right physical attributed who is also willing to work super hard many hours/week and be incredibly mentally tough. It is really intense and it is NOT for everyone, and that's totally OK!
I hope that helped get you some possible insight!

Just letting you know thag this is not all true in all cases. It is not always an intense program that requires anything extra. My DD made tops b team last year and had never done any specific training for tops. She was not in any special tops group and never had been. I think a lot of gyms make it that way, but people should be aware that some gyms just let it be more "natural". She had the physical abilities as part of her regular training. She had the skills based on her regular training. They decided in May to have her test and she tested in June and July. Went to national testing in oct, camp in dec. There was never any extra time spent outside of regular workouts. No intensity, no pressure.

 

[LizzieLac]

These situations never seem fair and I do think that coaches and gym owners often don't handle them well.

That being said, I will bet you that coaches/owners do not think they owe an explanation. They communicate to those who are selected. Does that mean they owe an explanation or discussion to those that were not? Tough question. I think someone on CB once commented about a similar move up type situation that the coaches don't generally tell you about a practice or session unless you are to be included.

Last year my DD and 3 of her level 5 teammates were moved to the level 6/7 workout, presumably because it was evident that they would be ready for optionals the next season. Our HC did not tell the other level 5 girls or parents about that move.

If the OP does not understand what the criteria is to be selected for tops then by all means she should ask that question and I believe the coach owes her a discussion at that point.

 

[Bess]

Gosh. 5 year olds in a tops program? Don't they have to be 7 to even test as "diamond' or whatever?? 6 year olds competing new level 4? That sounds like an awful lot of pressure.

We don't have any tops programs where we live, and there are zero 6 year olds competing level 4 in the entire state. I can't really compare what you are describing to our state bc we just aren't competitive with other states from a gymnastics standpoint. The gyms here are more like what @Amusibus described--girls compete low compulsory levels, very routine focused, perfecting tiny details of basic skills. I believe the youngest age group for level 4 is 8-9. But even by other states' standards, what you are describing at this gym sounds pretty extreme.

Our gym starts TOPS training at 4.5/5...Little Bit started at 4.5. Granted their TOPS training is not super hardcore at that age. She is now almost 6 and will compete L3 once she is of age. The TOPS girls do the same amount of hours as non TOPS but at different times. for instance they may workout 3-6 and non TOPS are 4-7. That one hour early is when they work on the TOPS physical abilities.

 

[LJL07]

Our gym starts TOPS training at 4.5/5...Little Bit started at 4.5. Granted their TOPS training is not super hardcore at that age. She is now almost 6 and will compete L3 once she is of age. The TOPS girls do the same amount of hours as non TOPS but at different times. for instance they may workout 3-6 and non TOPS are 4-7. That one hour early is when they work on the TOPS physical abilities.

Yes, from chatting with a few people on CB, I am learning that the gyms in our city/area are just frankly not good at all. That's probably why we do not have 6 year olds doing L3 around here. I am probably not the best informed when it comes to the TOPs program, but I do know what the training/skills look like, so I just couldn't imagine a 5 year old doing some of that stuff. Carry on with the discussion!

 

[Bess]

Yes, from chatting with a few people on CB, I am learning that the gyms in our city/area are just frankly not good at all. That's probably why we do not have 6 year olds doing L3 around here. I am probably not the best informed when it comes to the TOPs program, but I do know what the training/skills look like, so I just couldn't imagine a 5 year old doing some of that stuff. Carry on with the discussion!

. Lol. Ours can't do the stuff either...guess that's why they are starting them now. Although Little Bit was excited to show me 2 presses in a row last week.

 

[LJL07]

. Lol. Ours can't do the stuff either...guess that's why they are starting them now. Although Little Bit was excited to show me 2 presses in a row last week.

It looks incredibly hard!! I don't think there is a kid on DD's team who could do most of that stuff, and I'm including our level 4's and 5's! Press handstands are amazing. To tell you the truth, I don't think I've seen any of the optionals do those either.

 

[cbifoja]

I have no information on TOPs as DD's gym doesn't participate in the program (unfortunately). But as far as press handstands, I wonder if it is a size/age thing. We have some really strong optional girls but they are also women in their bodies. For conditioning some days, everyone works press handstands. Despite being as strong as they are, they are no where near being able to do even a single one. Even our optionals who are older but still have their "little girl" bodies can't do them. Of our four small/young optionals (ages 9-11), three of them can almost do them but they also don't work them very often. One optional can do them and the coaches move her to the beam where she can rip out five or six of them without stopping.. But she works them at home too and has for at least two years. The other three littles really only started doing them in the past six months.

From my amateur eye, it looks like the other three littles could eventually get them as they are close, but the older girls look so far away from being able to accomplish. And one of our gymmies has legs that go on for miles and I can't imagine she could ever do them.

 

[gopuckgo]

I'm sorry that you are dealing with this situation. It sounds like you need to get some answers for sure. As far as TOPS goes, I wouldn't worry too much. My daughter didn't even begin train TOPS until age 9 ( actually 8, but she gets aged up one year bc of when birthday falls) and she made a National team as a 10 year old, so no you don't need to start that young. My daughter would never have lasted at those young ages with that kind of intensity. It is true that some children are focused young and are able to do that kind of intensity, but mine was not one of them. She did not become focused until much later and it hasn't held her back one bit so don't let people scare you about the age thing. Don't fret if she doesn't do it this year or next or ever. Lots of kids do great and never do a TOPS program.

Also, ignore the body type thing too. My daughter just came back from camp and I have pictures of her with other 10 year olds who TOWER over her! She was by far one of the shortest in her age group. There were plenty of tall girls down there, just check out the pictures, so no you don't have to be short either. Go fight for your daughter if this is what she wants. Heck if I had listened to everyone who told me that my daughter wasn't cut out for this sport and to just give up, she would never have made it out of Level 4! Thankfully, we switched gyms in time and that not so good Level 4 kid from two years ago is now a Level 10 and going HOPES in two months.

I'm not saying that this is the same path for you and your child, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but not having a discussion with her coach is not acceptable either. So keep the faith alive, ignore the haters at your gym, fight your kid, never give up or find a better gym with open communication lines.

 

[gopuckgo]

Fight for your kid, not fight your kid, that would not be a good thing.

 

[munchkin3]

. Lol. Ours can't do the stuff either...guess that's why they are starting them now. Although Little Bit was excited to show me 2 presses in a row last week.

LOL!!!! at old gym 4 out of 20 girls level 4-9 could do presses from sitting.....we all felt it was normal, that some of the girls were extra strong.......
At new gym most girls do presses from floor. My DD cannot so guess what, she has to do like 20 of them spotted every workout. And the additional conditioning is quite noticeable....
Old gym has one girl wanting to do TOPS but this will never happen there......new gym, anyone can do tops workout, and there are about 8 girls there.....it is mostly a conditioning regimen. My DD refuses TOPS....Its fine with me!
Just cuz the girls at old gym can't do presses for the floor, doesn't mean they are bad....they compete very well actually. It just catches up later in optionals......

 

[gymdilettante]

I'm sorry that you are dealing with this situation. It sounds like you need to get some answers for sure. As far as TOPS goes, I wouldn't worry too much. My daughter didn't even begin train TOPS until age 9 ( actually 8, but she gets aged up one year bc of when birthday falls) and she made a National team as a 10 year old, so no you don't need to start that young. My daughter would never have lasted at those young ages with that kind of intensity. It is true that some children are focused young and are able to do that kind of intensity, but mine was not one of them. She did not become focused until much later and it hasn't held her back one bit so don't let people scare you about the age thing. Don't fret if she doesn't do it this year or next or ever. Lots of kids do great and never do a TOPS program.

Also, ignore the body type thing too. My daughter just came back from camp and I have pictures of her with other 10 year olds who TOWER over her! She was by far one of the shortest in her age group. There were plenty of tall girls down there, just check out the pictures, so no you don't have to be short either. Go fight for your daughter if this is what she wants. Heck if I had listened to everyone who told me that my daughter wasn't cut out for this sport and to just give up, she would never have made it out of Level 4! Thankfully, we switched gyms in time and that not so good Level 4 kid from two years ago is now a Level 10 and going HOPES in two months.

I'm not saying that this is the same path for you and your child, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but not having a discussion with her coach is not acceptable either. So keep the faith alive, ignore the haters at your gym, fight your kid, never give up or find a better gym with open communication lines.

Wow level 4 to level 10 in two years?? That is incredible.

Anyway, op, I don't have any additional advice about how handle the gym's secrecy but based on what you said it sounds like you want your daughter to have a balanced life - make sure she has time for school, leadership activities, etc - and that you wisely recognize that her future is likely not to be driven by gym (she is more likely by probably 1000x to get an academic scholarship than a gym one. ..and you don't want her choosing her college based on gym. ..other than Stanford I'm not sure many other tip top schools have gymnastics and there are no athletic scholarships at ivies). What I'm getting at is that, even if your daughter is physically and mentally capable of successfully doing TOPS, it doesn't really sound like it's what you want for her or your family long term. Over time it would put her on a path that would make a balanced life difficult (if she didn't burn out and quit). Now it's just an extra few hours a week but the training will accelerate. Nothing against people who choose to do TOPS ...for some kids/families it's a great option. Different strokes and all that.

Yes your daughter's and your feelings will be hurt in the short term but that's no reason to choose to push to enroll her in TOPS unless you decide that putting her on a high intensity training regimen is the right choice. I would also look into other gyms at least which may make question of whether to approach the gym about its secrecy moot....but even if you do switch, I'd still encourage you to listen to your reasoned inner voice that you've expressed in this thread which I applaud you for. It's easy to lose your head with a talented young daughter! She sounds amazing in a well rounded way.