Parents Gym Change Update

[EmmasMommy]

Emma had her evaluation at the other gym today. We just got back. She did great and had fun. She kept up with TOPS girls and learned new skills within a few tries. And they would put her into level 4 (new level 3) in the fall, even if she didn't start there until Summer.

BUT

She's afraid of one thing that is required there. Their conditioning area is on an elevated platform (second story overlooking first story) and there's a high bar there that she would have to do her leg lifts on. And she WILL NOT try it (even with the coach holding her) because she's afraid of how high up it is.

So, they said if she can come back and try it, she's on the team. But Emma says she would rather stay at her current gym. (I think it's because of the pressure there, because she does have to do things at her current gym that she is afraid of and she usually gets over her fears within a week or two; normally she would rather overcome a fear to learn new skills)

This gym said they've never dealt with kids being afraid of anything like that and they are worried down the line it will transfer to skills, which I understand (especially because they don't know my daughter and don't realize that within a few weeks it will be a non-issue).

It's tough because her current gym won't move her up even though she has the skills, but they wouldn't hold her back because of fear, either. But the gym we visited today wouldn't hold her back since she knows the skills, but will hold her back because of fears.

With Emma, I've noticed she might be the last person to try something (because she's afraid) but still the 1st person to get the skill. Her strength is in being a fast learner and her weakness is in getting scared of new things. It's a shame her fear gets her in way, but the only way to fix that is through exposure, which she isn't going to get where she's at and can't get in the new gym if she can't go there without first getting over the fear.

She'd rather go to the new gym and do the new skills, but not if she's going to have to do conditioning on the platform. (She asked why they can't have her do is somewhere lower first and THEN move her up higher, but for them it's all about not being afraid).


Anyway, long story short, it looks like she will be staying where she is. She's fine with that, and I guess it helps her current gym has known her forever and so they understand how she works and work with her based on that. I do wish her current gym would put her in a higher skill level, and I've been thinking about talking to them about it, but I don't want to see like a pushy gym mom and doubt they would do it anyway. I guess every gym has their own ways and you just have to find the one you fit in best.

 

[EmmasMommy]

The kicker to all this is, most gyms don't have their bars on a platform, so if those same coaches had been in a different building, she would have ended up on the team. It is what it is, though, and we can't drive any further than that for a gym. Maybe after we move we can explore new gyms.

It does seem like a really good gym though (however, it doesn't have that nice "homey" feel our current gym has). They seem to be less concerned with skills (as not all their level 3 girls had all the level 3 skills either) and more concerned with fearlessness.

To put it in perspective, I just remind myself that my daughter was TERRIFIED of beam 6 months ago and then at her most recent competition she got 1st place on beam. We'll probably see their team around at competitions, and I have no doubt in my mind my daughter can advance and do "scarier" skills, but perhaps that gym will never be for us if they only let girls on the team who are never afraid to try something for the first time. I do think in time she will outgrow her fear of heights.

 

[gymdog]

Respectfully, it sounds like with all this information that your current gym has the right plan in place for her after all. Good luck! Enjoy the journey!

 

[EmmasMommy]

Thanks She's not afraid of trying new skills, though, so I'm not sure (even the ones that she should be afraid of). This wouldn't have even come up if they didn't have a second floor in their building either, since she wasn't afraid of any of the skills they tried today. They even told me they've deal with fear before, just not that fear (so for some reason fear over trying skills is OK there, but fear over heights is not because it *might* transfer into fear over trying skills.)

I can't follow the logic, but as I said, every gym will have their own way of looking at things, and it's not really up to me to understand it. My daughter has a long boring year and a half ahead of her, and then, whether she's afraid of the platform at another gym she's never been to before or not, she'll be in level 4 at her current gym. So, it really doesn't affect her ability to be in level 4 either way, it just prolongs due to which gym she would be in.

Basically, she's going into level 3 next year at her current gym, but the new gym wouldn't even put her there. They WOULD put her in level 4 based on skills, but based on her being afraid of heights they would put her in NO level.

That said, she's been afraid of things before and gotten over them quickly, so I guess I don't understand how that would be what gets in the way. Do you mean that no gymnast is ever afraid of trying something new? My daughter was terrified of beam and now gets 1st place on beam on competitions. She can overcome her fears, but not if she isn't given a chance to.

I thought they might not put her in level 4 based on other things, but I have to admit I'm surprised this was the issue and that they wouldn't work with her on it. She tried skills on beam, bars, and vault today that she never did before and wasn't scared of those, either. She even learned some skills today that she's never tried before that other girls there have been working on for a while and still don't have.

I guess I'm just surprised that hesitance to try something scary *for the first time* is the be-all-end-all. If they knew her, they'd probably realize that within 2 weeks she wouldn't scared anymore.

 

[GymBeeMom]

It sounds like you are disappointed. If they don't want to help her work through this small fear, with the obvious ability they saw in her skills, then they are not the right fit for your DD. You want coaches that believe in your child enough to invest in helping them through fear, lost skills, emotional drama, and illness/injury. Your child sounds quite capable, and maybe she won't be as bored as you think. She will be with coaches who know her style and want her there, and that is huge for a gymnast. She will advance through the levels with coaches that believe in her and that is more important than how fast she reaches a particular level. Ultimately, if she is okay staying where she is at, then try to find a way to be okay with it, too.
And yes, gymnasts of all ability levels face fear issues and the coaches are the ones that have to coach them through it. It doesn't sound like the new gym had an interest in doing that so be glad you found that out now rather than after you switched...TOPS is not the only way to a successful gym career. It has its benefits but plenty of elites never went through TOPs so don't sweat that part of it...

 

[EmmasMommy]

Thanks, GymBee. Personally, I like where she is at. I like her competing "easy" levels and getting 1st place on things. Where she is now, she's a "big fish in a small pond" and it's fun to watch. She wanted a challenge, though, and I was proud of her for that. I am disappointed FOR her because to me it feels like a small thing to keep her off the team for. At the same time, I'm happy that SHE is okay with it. It also showed her that level 3 WILL be fun even if it's easy because it's still new things to do at practice. It's also closer to where we live right now and MUCH cheaper!

But you hit the nail on the head. The other gym emailed me saying working with a sports psychologist to get over that fear would get her on their team. I'm not unwilling to do that, but I felt they jumped the gun on that. If she was on the team and they wanted us to do that, sure, if she wasn't getting over it from exposure alone. But IMO, working through fears is a part of almost any gymnasts' "career", and right now, it's not holding her back from learning the necessary skills. It did tell me that they don't feel confident they can help a gymnast work through their fears, even a girl who has worked through many fears (and quickly!) before, so I think you are spot on that she is better off with the coaches who know her, want her there, and are capable of working with her. The good news is her current gym does let her do privates for learning new skills for fun, so on some level they are respecting that she is ready to do things outside of her current level.

Thanks for the kind and encouraging words. There's definitely benefits to our current situation, but I think I would have rather them have said, "she doesn't have the skills" (though on the other hand, at least now we know for sure she does!) than to say "she's scared and we aren't going to help her with that". Because skills can be taught, even if it takes longer. But a coach that is unwilling to coach a child through fear, well, there's nothing my daughter can do to change that situation, ya know?

I wish we had more options. I did find another gym we could try her at (if she still really wants level 4--maybe today at least made her realize that level 3 is fun? then again, their gym seemed to be level 3 working on level 4, which her current gym wouldn't be, and their class sizes were smaller so less standing around).

I think maybe I want too much from a gym! I want a gym that will
1) work with my daughter as an individual (both on her weaknesses, such as fear, as well as her strengths, such as skill -- which means placing her at a level based on skill and working with her when she's scared, instead of telling her she's not good enough for the team because she hesitated to trust someone she just met).
2) have smaller class sizes. 20 kids working on beam at a time is a lot compared to 5-6 kids working on beam at a time...

And of course, a safe, healthy, fun environment

 

[Kiwi]

They even told me they've deal with fear before, just not that fear (so for some reason fear over trying skills is OK there, but fear over heights is not because it *might* transfer into fear over trying skills.)

I can't follow the logic

Me neither. If that's how they react now, it makes me wonder how they would deal with other fears. I would suspect not very well. Their emphasis on 'fearlessness' doesn't sound good either.

 

[EmmasMommy]

Me neither. If that's how they react now, it makes me wonder how they would deal with other fears. I would suspect not very well. Their emphasis on 'fearlessness' doesn't sound good either.

At least I'm not nuts And now we know she is capable. She did *everything * else there that the other girls were doing, even things that some of the other others were unable to do.

I forgot to mention this, too. They kept telling me things like "all our level 3 girls do x" and then when I watched the practice, NONE of them did that. IE: "all our level 3 girls climb to the top of the rope at practice" but none of them did. I think ONE girl got 1/4 of the way up the rope. I just don't understand why they would tell me something like that that isn't true, though maybe all their girls were just having an off day.

They did keep saying that her conditioning strength was behind their other girls (which maybe was why they were concerned with her fear over doing one of the conditioning moves) but then, 1) that conditioning move could be done elsewhere and 2) every conditioning exercise they did she did just as long and as well as the other girls (except the for the one she was scared of and one on the bars she never did before, that by the end of the rotation she was doing it as good as everyone in the class except for the 2 girls who did it best).

I think the reality is that because they have a *full* team they were only going to take her on if she was perfect across the board, even if their other girls weren't. Which is fine. Though it is a bit frustrating that they were making it sound like their girls WERE perfect across the board. (Which I pretty much doubted from the first moment they told me that anyway, before even seeing it, because no girl is perfect--they all work hard to improve and all gymnasts have their strengths and weaknesses; IMO that is completely normal).

They made it sound like their girls were so much better and stronger than any other girls team around, yet our gym beats theirs in that level almost every time. This is NOT meant as a slight--their gym does REALLY well at the upper levels which is why we wanted to go there and were willing to make the move now, so obviously we think their gym is better in many ways. BUT I just don't like people saying things that don't seem to actually be true.

So, although I am sad for my daughter that she won't get to compete the level she wanted, I'm glad she likes the gym she is at now and I admit that while I don't agree with their system of moving girls up, I much prefer their attitude toward gymnasts and I feel like I can trust them to be honest with me, and those last 2 things are more important than what level my daughter is in. It's probably a blessing in disguise that the potential new gym made such a big deal over this one thing.

Also, my daughter heard a lot of what they said (she was standing right there) so I wonder if perhaps she didn't trust this coach because she just saw the coach lie about her girls' abilities like 10 times in the space of 5 minutes. I'm not sure I would trust someone not to drop me after that either, though as an ADULT I did trust the coach not to drop my daughter. I think a 6 year old might not feel the same way. In her current gym, if she is scared about something and we talk to her about it and she is fine to try it by the next practice. My daughter doesn't even want to talk about it, so that tells me that it's not just about fear. I really think trust is a factor here, too. I think it's reasonable for a gymnast not to trust a coach 100% if they just met them, especially if the gymnast is young and just realized the coach lied about nearly a dozen things before practice even began.

It also crossed my mind that they maybe do this to all girls who are starting "oh, we can get her ready for our team if she pays to see our {sports psychologist/nutritional/etc} first to work through {xyz}" IMO, they shouldn't be having their kids see a SP over every little thing without first giving the child a chance to work on her fear in the gym. If it were me, I'd do some trust building exercises with her and work her up to doing the exercise in the conditioning area but in the meantime have her do the exercise somewhere else. But hey, I'm not the coach I didn't tell them I went to college for psychology, but while I'm not a sports psychologist, I do know a thing or two...

One of the things they did to get my daughter over her fear of beam at her current gym, aside from more exposure, was have her sit on the monkey bars and work her up to standing on the monkey bars. They didn't kick her off the team because she was scared. They just worked her up to not being scared. And part of that was showing her over time that she can trust them. My daughter has always been this way--cautious. And it has more to do with people than with actual danger. Her fears to me don't seem severe and she gets over them fast, but coming to TRUST someone takes more time with her. I'm not sure that's something I want to get RID of but maybe as she gets older she will make the leap to trusting someone because she trusts me and I trust them.

I'm sure the SP is very effective, but it just felt a bit like MAYBE they were trying to bleed me for more money before letting her sign up~either to see if I'm the kind of person who is going to pay for everything they want me to OR to get some extra money from me beforehand. I mean, maybe that is not the case AT ALL, but I always get suspicious anytime someone wants me to give them money for something as a condition for something else, when the "problem" can be fixed without money.

 

[MaryA]

When my DD switched, along with a couple of her teammates, to a new gym, they were all terrified ofthe pit. They had never had a pit before and even though they "knew" that the blocks were soft and squishy, it took them a long time to get comfortable doing anything over or into the pit. If the HC had said, "I won't allow you on team till you feel comfortable with the pit" we wouldn't have been able to switch. Luckily she understood and was patient, and eventually they got used to it. DD didn't need a sports psychologist. She just needed to acclimate. I think this coach was being unreasonable.

 

[mommyof1]

It's probably a blessing in disguise that the potential new gym made such a big deal over this one thing.

It sure sounds that way! It seems utterly ridiculous that a coach would suggest sending a young child he didn't know to a sports psychologist based on a single instance of the child's reluctance to try something new.

 

[EmmasMommy]

It sure sounds that way! It seems utterly ridiculous that a coach would suggest sending a young child he didn't know to a sports psychologist based on a single instance of the child's reluctance to try something new.

thank you, and everyone else, for your comments. I admit at first they had me feeling like my daughter was inadequate because "all their girls do this" and "all their girls do that". As I watched, I felt better. "Oh, all their girls don't actually do that. In fact, none of them do!" and realizing that my daughter can learn the skills she is missing in a single class. I thought it was going well. But then we hit this "fear" thing and they made such a big deal about it that I was like "wow, really, they don't even let girls on their team because of this here?"

It made me feel a bit like they didn't think she had what it takes to be a gymnast in general, even though they said she had all the skills and learn fast. But the more I thought about it, the more I thought the whole thing was a bit ridiculous on their part. Every gymnast will have a weakness. My daughter is strong, flexible, and a fast learner. So what if she takes her time trying new things. Even with her "fear" she has still tried and learned more skills than most kids her age, so I don't feel like her fear holds her back from where she should be; just slows her down from where she would be if she didn't have that fear. And it's not terrible fears, either. For example, our gym now has a girl a lot like my daughter who has so far had ALL the same fears my daughter has. She's also overcome them. And she OFTEN gets 1st place on many events and overall at competitions. I haven't seen it hinder her, even in the higher levels.

The place we went to yesterday are a great gym and obviously work for a lot of girls and families. It just wasn't right for us. We could get our daughter over the fear and on their team within a week, but after that experience I feel like: why bother? I feel like some of my personal red flags went up.

I will say this, too: I saw a LOT more injuries there than we see at our gym. I know injuries come with gymnastics, but I'm not used to seeing multiple kids in casts and most kids in braces. I watch the level 5-10 girls practice at my daughter's current gyms and you might see a few healing injuries, but not as high a percentage. It does make me wonder if that stems from them choosing "fearless" gymnasts.

I like the mutual trust my daughter and her coaches have now. She trusts them enough to try scary things with them. Maybe not the first day those things are introduced, but eventually. And they trust my daughter to work through her fears and for it never to hold her back (obviously they haven't held her back if she's doing skills that are 1-2 levels above her teammates right now). They talk to me when she is scared and give me tips on helping her overcome those fears along with them working with her in the gym, and she gets over them quickly.

This whole thing taught me that we really are at a great gym. No gym will be perfect. I can live with a gym that is slow to move up girls, even if they are ready, but I'm not sure I can live with a gym that lies to me or makes my daughter feel like she's not good enough because she got scared of something new.

That said, I am trying to think of how I can talk to her current gym about challenging her more, even if they don't skip her to a more challenging level. I think her coach next year would be willing to do this, because she loves working with Emma and seeing what Emma can do. At camp this week, she had my daughter doing back walkovers on the low beam. So next year might still be a more challenging level for her if we can get the coach to work on new skills with her. Her coaches before the ones she had now were great, too. When the girls were learning back pull overs on bar, they had my daughter doing back hip circles. This year, they haven't done that. My daughter only works on what everyone else is, and it's too easy for her. Anyway, I just hope I can find a way to approach them about some options to give my daughter the challenge she is looking for. She also wants more time in the gym, but next year they only practice 2 days a week. I don't mind doing the privates, but she likes the class setting better. It would be nice if they let her get another practice day somehow with another group.

On a side note:

Current Level 3 does a mill circle in their routine at competition, right? I could have sworn they did. But none of the girls at yesterday's practice did them? One girl I saw trying, but wasn't there yet, and the other girls didn't even try. They just did pull over, back hip circle, cast, then dismount. my daughter was very excited that she learned the "whole" bars routine in one practice (I didn't tell her I thought they were skipping a skill...) and that she learned the whole beam routing in one practice. She totally had fun with practicing there, so I'm sure she could be happy there if it weren't for my concerns.

 

[gymgal]

It sounds like it wasn't a good fit for your dd. If she is now happier at het current gym, after seeing the new one, I wouldn't push the issue.

As for the other gym, from their point a view (given their girls are used to their gym set up), girls who display fear of heights, probably aren't ready for team. Should they show a little leniency for girls who haven't trained in their gym? Probably but maybe they saw other behaviors that led them to believe it was more than just an exposure issue.

 

[EmmasMommy]

It sounds like it wasn't a good fit for your dd. If she is now happier at het current gym, after seeing the new one, I wouldn't push the issue.

As for the other gym, from their point a view (given their girls are used to their gym set up), girls who display fear of heights, probably aren't ready for team. Should they show a little leniency for girls who haven't trained in their gym? Probably but maybe they saw other behaviors that led them to believe it was more than just an exposure issue.

Could be. They seemed pretty open with me, though. They basically said that if I brought her back in a week and she use their conditioning area for that, she'd be on the team. They said she was fearless on all the *events* even for things she'd never done before. I think it was more a case that they have a full team so don't want to deal with her fear in ANY area. Which to me I'm honestly glad that that came up. Because while I can get her on the team next week by getting her over that fear, would they maybe just kick her off the next time she experienced fear of something? My daughter lives with two autistic brothers and it's REALLY important that her gym environment (which is an outlet for her) has stability. She really needs that, not the up and down, so in the end we'll have to make decisions based on that. Not that we've had a perfect experience with the gym she is at now, but there is really only *one* coach in the gym that she is at now that is a bit up and down with her (but still great working with her). The other coaches are really consistent with her.

 

[Committed]

Yes, current L3 has a mill circle.

 

[EmmasMommy]

Yes, current L3 has a mill circle.

I thought so! Thanks

 

[RileyG]

She is 6yo? And level 3? I am talking in current levels because it gets confusing to talk in "new" levels!!
So why is your current gym opposed to moving her to level 4 in the fall? There is a lot of time before then to gain skills.
and i agree the gym you checked out does not seem like it would be a good fit. There will always be fear with a gymnast, its part of the sport and any gymnast that is completely fearless is dangerous imo.
our coach is fond of saying gymnastics is just as much mental as physical and she is right.
learning to overcome the fear with good coaching is important. It seems odd to me that they would recommend a sports psych for a 6 yo level 3

 

[emorymom]

I thought so! Thanks

They might use AAU for L3. In GA we do not do a mill circle in current L3. Just a shoot through.

 

[2G1B]

They might use AAU for L3. In GA we do not do a mill circle in current L3. Just a shoot through.

us too. currently we have done AAU for level 2 and 3 and move to USAG for 4. Current level 3 (AAU) does not have the mil circle, just the shoot through for bars. but next year our gym is going all USAG. it looks like new level 2 (current 3) has what I think it the mill circle; but it says legs can be bent? Then legs have to be straight for new 3 (current 4). I could be totally wrong on that though since I'm just going off of what I have read.

 

[raenndrops]

If it helps, I know a girl who competed Level 3 last year and is currently competing level 5. Since Levels 1-4 are not REQUIRED by USAG, your current gym could allow her to "skip" competing level 4 all together if she can get the skills needed for Level 5 (or New Level 4)