Gym problems - Suggestions please

[ex-gymnast]

A few years ago we had a group of parents in who got a loan and a building and set up their own gym. These were level 7-9 gymnasts whose coach had died and could not find a good gym. They found a coach through an ad on usa-gymnastics.org and hired a local coach they liked away from another gym.

That gym has actually become the main gym in town after just 2 yrs.

I have an accounting degree- my first suggestion if you stay where you are is to get your own CPA for the 501(c) On who specializes in 501(c)s.

 

[amom]

Most of the people I actually know who act in a "meet director" capacity (which obviously is a limitied sample size) are in a salaried position and this is basically considered part of their job. I would expect their salary to provide adequate compensation reflecting this time commitment, but because of the nature of that situation I can't really speak to what would be adequate compensation. I would personally feel usual hourly wage x hours worked would be adequate as generally there is a hospitality room with food provided, etc.

Personally I think that the meet fee charged to all entrants to the competition should be used to defray the meet expenses, although a lot of gyms do have team fees at the beginning of the year that also go towards those things. There is nothing that says they can't slap you with another fee (like a lot of dance schools here do a "recital fee" on top of costumes and tuition), but it sounds like basically what they are doing is making a "pure profit" by assessing extra fees and using booster money for meet overheads, and then keeping all the fee money. On top of this, they're taking booster money to recoup lost profit for a meet that they most likely ARE making a profit on. Again, for some of this, there's nothing (except market forces) that really says they can't do it, but it's a good way to run a business into the ground, even if you get away with it for some time because of a lack of competition. There may not be other gyms around, but there are other activities and of course people aren't going to tolerate ever increasing fees.

I think you are right with much of what you said. We broke it down these past few days and this is how I think they are doing it. They are assessing extra fees right and left and using booster club money for meet overheads and putting the fee money back into the booster club. In other words, they are simply making their "pure profit" by using fees. That way, everything looks like it is on the up and up. By extra fees, I am talking about the 50% that we have to pay for equipment and refurbishment (comes out of the booster club fund but it is used by everyone not just the team), excessive coaches fees (totaling around $15,000 for the team), gym rental for the meets ($850 per meet), meet director fee ($750 per meet), representative fee ($250 per meet), yearly registration fee per gymnast ($90), and yes, there is a hospitality room provided with three meals. In addition, the booster club does not do the books or write the checks.

As far as people not tolerating all these fees - you are right. This is why many families have already left and many more are thinking about it. Why not play tennis for example! You get to pick the camps you go to, pay for private lessons from whoever you choose, and there are none of the fees!

 

[Ingymmom]

amom, This sounds like a sticky situation... I am so sorry that your options are so limited in your area. Unfortunately not many booster clubs w/not for profit status are run properly.

May be unorthodox, but I wonder if you ran an ad through your state gymnastics website or USAG regarding interest in another club opening in your area, there may be someone out there looking for this type of opportunity.

USAG classifieds Link Removed

Regarding the current club, how is your booster club funded? Do the parents fundraise/Pay fees each month into a booster club account? what types of fundraisers? What are your booster club fees (if any) per season? I am assuming your gym hosts a meet? What is your annual tuition?

gymdog is correct regarding the use of funds possibly being improper. Among other no-no's, 501(c)3 funds can not be used for personal inurement which sounds may be the case here. If the money is raised/payed for by the parents this is most terrible. There was a club in our area that was hit very hard last year after an audit by the IRS. Every penny under their booster club was confiscated for this very reason & I believe the club was fined as well. The only ones that were truly hurt were the parents and the gymnasts as these were all funds they had worked for years to raise, or payed into their accounts. I think it is great that you are questioning this clubs actions. This is all public information that you have every right to ask to see or question.

RE Coaching issue: Were these coaches present when your dd joined the club? As much time as our gymmies spend at the gym, I am always surprised by how willing parents are to entrust their children to just any coaches, or how accepting we can be when a new coach comes into the program of our gym. As the consumer, I think it is important to be able to have access to resumes and references. (We once had a temp coach come into our gym with your dd's coach's attitude and it seems he was very defensive because he truly did not know what he was doing - insecurity - , so I understand how that defensive attitude feels). I want to know the background of every person that will have access to my child. It may sound a little over bearing, but then I know that I can completely put my childs gymnastics in their hands.

 

[amom]

May be unorthodox, but I wonder if you ran an ad through your state gymnastics website or USAG regarding interest in another club opening in your area, there may be someone out there looking for this type of opportunity.

USAG classifieds Link Removed

Regarding the current club, how is your booster club funded? Do the parents fundraise/Pay fees each month into a booster club account? what types of fundraisers? What are your booster club fees (if any) per season? I am assuming your gym hosts a meet? What is your annual tuition?

gymdog is correct regarding the use of funds possibly being improper. Among other no-no's, 501(c)3 funds can not be used for personal inurement which sounds may be the case here. If the money is raised/payed for by the parents this is most terrible. There was a club in our area that was hit very hard last year after an audit by the IRS. Every penny under their booster club was confiscated for this very reason & I believe the club was fined as well. The only ones that were truly hurt were the parents and the gymnasts as these were all funds they had worked for years to raise, or payed into their accounts. I think it is great that you are questioning this clubs actions. This is all public information that you have every right to ask to see or question.

RE Coaching issue: Were these coaches present when your dd joined the club? As much time as our gymmies spend at the gym, I am always surprised by how willing parents are to entrust their children to just any coaches, or how accepting we can be when a new coach comes into the program of our gym. As the consumer, I think it is important to be able to have access to resumes and references. (We once had a temp coach come into our gym with your dd's coach's attitude and it seems he was very defensive because he truly did not know what he was doing - insecurity - , so I understand how that defensive attitude feels). I want to know the background of every person that will have access to my child. It may sound a little over bearing, but then I know that I can completely put my childs gymnastics in their hands.

I like that idea as well of running and ad. I wish there was a gym looking to set up a satelite program or an individual wanting to open a gym somewhere. We have said all along that a satelite type program would be perfect.

Parents do pay dues into an account. The primary way that you can raise money is to sell ads that go into the meet programs. The dues for booster club is $361 for lv 5 which I think is fine. Tuition just went up to $215 which I think is high based on the quality of the program. The gym hosts three meets a year. Parents pay for all of these funds or they sell ads.

As far as coaching: the coaches were present when we started. Now, I will have to say that it is hard to determine the quality of a coach when your dd is only a level 3 or 4. I think that when they are a lv 5 and higher it is easier to see. This is certainly the case here. This is when it really starts to break down. Also, you get to know the other parents and you find out their experiences and you see good families leave and it is clear. I too believe that parents should have a say in the coaching when they are the ones paying for it.

Again, I think that the main thing they are doing is tacking on all these extra fees. The rest of it looks ok - "in theory."

 

[gymdog]

In addition, the booster club does not do the books or write the checks.

I know of several parents' associations/booster clubs that got 501(c) status and as far as I'm aware the legal counsel they got was basically that things should stay seperate. Even going so far as having another official name in order to maintain a separate entity. So I would be wary that someone who owns the gym, or someone who is employed by the gym, could handle booster club accounting. For gyms with older high level gymnasts it is also important that everything be kept separate from profit making and shared equally because violations can endanger NCAA eligibility.

 

[gymnasticcoach]

I would just like to say that as a career coach with over 40 yrs exp what your owners are doing is an abomination. They care nothing for the children, parents or the sport. If it were in my power to come to your community and buy the gym out from under them i would but it is not at this time.

I see that you have received some wonderful and helpful advice from many different sources and i hope an answer can be found.

I wish you success and a quick resolve to your difficulties.

Don

 

[amom]

Thanks Everyone!

Thanks everyone for all of your replies. The saga continues and we are looking into ways to resolve this. Most are looking for a coach and a facility that we can all move to together. At this point, I just want to be anywhere but in this current gym. The bottom line is that they do not want to hire a prof. coach nor do they have any plans to improve the program. What a shame! They may think twice when the entire team leaves. Actually, they probably won't even care! How sad!

Can I tell you all once again how wonderful it is to "talk" to so many of you who really care and want the best for kids? I believe no one should ever put limits on children and their potential to do great things no matter who they are or where they come from. Good luck to all of you this upcoming season.

 

[NewGymMom]

Try contacting some of the bigger gyms a few hours a way. See if any of them are interested in buying the gym or starting a new one in your town. My dd's old cheer gym was taken over by a bigger gym a few hours a way. The owner makes a few trips back and forth through out the week, but has a gym manager and complete staff at each gym to handle things when she isn't there.

Also, have you checked with any dance studios in your area (if there are any)...some dance studios have rec gymnastic classes (that's how my daughter found her love for the sport lol) maybe you could work out a deal with them. Maybe after they realize the business they could get by all the families switching over, they would upgrade their program/buy new equpitment etc... And if you can find a dance studio like this and its a bit further away, I bet parents would gladly carpool, to get away from the situation they are in now.

 

[Smile :)]

This sounds a little like the gym my sister trains at currently in some ways. The owners have nothing to do with gymnastics (husband is a practicing psychiatrist, wife is an attorney) other than they started the gym when they got sick of driving their daughter two hours away to take lessons years ago. They are also the only gym in town or within a few hours. I guess the difference is they are basically decent people.

The only checks I've written directly to them have been:
-Monthly tuition (it is more in the summer but they also have more gym hours)
-Team Leotard/Warm Ups (they order them from somewhere and I believe we get them at cost/close to that)

As for meets because we're getting back into things she has only done one open meet and we paid entry fees directly to the meet organizers and we made our own travel arrangements because that was easier. I think if she had traveled with the rest of the team it would have been cheaper because they get some group discount or something. We didn't have to pay coaches fees or any of their expenses for attending the meet (I'm guessing they get reimbursed by the gym or I hope they do). I think all the stuff you're paying extra for is just included in our monthly tuition or something. There isn't a team fee per se although the tuition is more for the advanced (I guess level 8 & up)gymnasts (although they have more hours too) than it is for the intermediate or beginning groups so I guess that is probably figured in too. We don't pay for the cost of the facility or equipment (well not directly I'm sure it was a consideration when they determined what tuition would be just as they must consider the salaries they pay coaches their liability insurance etc,) Maybe the owners of this gym need to understand that profit=income-expense and that their income is not meant to be 100% profit. To be fair I don't think the owners of the gym where my sister is are really making a lot of money on this so perhaps if they didn't have other careers they wouldn't be able to support themselves (although if they didn't have other careers that might imply they worked at their gym so that might reduce their overhead salary cost and increase their profit who knows)

I don't think we have a booster club actually although there is a little kids tumbling program that is free that I guess they got some grant to do. They are also doing a Gala type performance next month that will raise money for the pediatric stem cell unit at the local hospital here.

 

[amom]

How are percentages determined?

Okay, we've been researching some more and this leads me to more questions.

Is it true that to maintain a non-profit status a $1000 maximim is to be reserved for the next competitive year and no more than that?

Also, who sets the percentages as to how money will be spent out of Booster Club funds at your gym? For instance, what percent is spent on team gifts, coaches expenses and team equipment and such. We are given these percentages by the owners.

 

[gym law mom]

Okay, we've been researching some more and this leads me to more questions.

Is it true that to maintain a non-profit status a $1000 maximim is to be reserved for the next competitive year and no more than that?

Also, who sets the percentages as to how money will be spent out of Booster Club funds at your gym? For instance, what percent is spent on team gifts, coaches expenses and team equipment and such. We are given these percentages by the owners.

As to who sets percentages, that is the decision of the booster club. The owners cannot and should not have any say in what the booster club does with its money. If the owners are controlling the money made by the booster club then it can lose its 501c3 status. Owners, coaches and anyone else employed by the gym cannot be on the board or a member of the booster club. The owners have a taxable for profit business and the monies should never be comingled.

 

[MtnGymMom]

Also, who sets the percentages as to how money will be spent out of Booster Club funds at your gym? For instance, what percent is spent on team gifts, coaches expenses and team equipment and such. We are given these percentages by the owners.

I answered you in the other thread as well, but there is more alarming information over here! The owners of your gym really sound like they are messing up.

The booster club should be setting the spending limits. The gym owners should not be telling the booster club how to operate, and they cannot legally require the booster club to purchase equipment for their for-profit business.

Is the booster club a non-profit organization? Is there a board, a president, etc? Bylaws? Or is the booster club in effect a branch of the for-profit business? Something fishy is going on there...


On the other hand, the parents are not going to be able to run the gym the way they want to. You've tried to meet with the owners, you have voiced your concerns. The gym owners have a choice- they can try to keep their customers or they can keep on doing what they are doing. Obviously your gym's owners have chosen the latter. Now you have a choice- find other arrangements for gymnastics, or stay where you are and accept how things work there.

I'm curious as to how things turned out for you- your last post is a month old. I hope you're looking into getting another program started in your town!

 

[Gymdad2]

I've never heard of anything about the $1000 minimum for the non-profit status. Sounds like more owner's hokum to me but you would have to check with an attorney in your state to be sure.

As for how to spend Booster Club funds, that should be up to the members of the booster club and not the gym owners. After all, it's your money.

Our Coaches submit their meet expense reports to the booster club and we review them and pay them (usually) but again its our decision. I really don't see how they can make you pay for equipment. Like the others said before, the gym owns their own equipment and they should pay for it.

When the vault table was re-designed a few years ago we did buy one of them as a gift to the gym but it was purely our decision. I'd say its time you had a parents' revolt!

 

[caraburn]

hmmm are you possibly from Iowa because this sounds exactly like the gym I coach at. There are very few optional gymnasts and we have 5 coaches, but one is leaving at the end of the school year and 2 of them are level 4 coaches. I'm 19 years old and in college and i'm only going to be around for probably 2 years at the most. I'm the level 5 and 6 coach and i have them all to myself now that the other coach is leaving. There is around 20-25 girls that i'm going to be coaching on my own if I can't find more help. I feel your pain. Its a little different from my perspective because I get paid for this, I don't pay for it. I absolutely love love love my job and I do have quite a bit of experience in gymnastics and feel like I do a good job for the circumstances I am in, however, as a parent I can see how they would be concerned having a college kid coaching and having so many number and the prices at my gym are ridiculous. The only thing I can think of as advice to give you is really communicate with the owner and the coaches at the gym and if nothing changes...take matters into your own hands and ask around if there is anyone who would be interested in a job and bring them to your owner's attention. In our situation, our owner does not look for coaches, they come to her and it's caused such a problem and it was something I had to do when I was a gymnast....my level 9 coach was the same coach I had as a level 6, she was never a gymnast and her poor treatment of an injury is what brought me to quit. Anywho, I ramble like crazy. Your situation just is so similar to mine I had to share good luck!!

 

[gymmum]

Wow this doesn't sound good at all.
Have you looked in to any legal implications, i.e coach to child ratios. Are their H & S policies up to date and do they have the kids welfare at heart? It doesn't sound like it. Maybe with a bit of discrete detective work you may have some bargaining power if they may be not quite up to scratch. 40 kids to 3 coaches sound way outside the UK rules. Are you members of a gymnastics organisation such as OLGA which could give you some advice?? Good luck.

 

[bogwoppit]

Wow this doesn't sound good at all.
Have you looked in to any legal implications, i.e coach to child ratios. Are their H & S policies up to date and do they have the kids welfare at heart? It doesn't sound like it. Maybe with a bit of discrete detective work you may have some bargaining power if they may be not quite up to scratch. 40 kids to 3 coaches sound way outside the UK rules. Are you members of a gymnastics organisation such as OLGA which could give you some advice?? Good luck.

Sadly in the US the only thing a gym needs to have is insurance. There are no safetly standards and coaches do not need to have any certification. This is why quality varies wildly. THere are some amazing clubs with amazing coaches, but in a country as big as the US there are some terrible clubs. In the UK there is so much control over these things there tends to be less of these issues. Leaving is often the only way to make something change.

 

[Gymmom94]

Employees/Coaches/Owners Board

Where is that dictated that employees/coaches /owners are not allowed on the Board of Directors for a booster club? On our board there are parents of gymnasts who are employed by the gym (since they coach at the gym). There are 4 people who fit in that category on our board but they all have competitive gymnasts in the program.

 

[bogwoppit]

Where is that dictated that employees/coaches /owners are not allowed on the Board of Directors for a booster club? On our board there are parents of gymnasts who are employed by the gym (since they coach at the gym). There are 4 people who fit in that category on our board but they all have competitive gymnasts in the program.

YOu should start a whole new thread for this issue or it will get buried in this one and never answered.

 

[PrepOpParent]

Amom, I noticed this thread started almost a year ago. Has there been any resolution? Your Booster Club's 503(c) status really seems to be in jeapardy. Not to mention the overarching coaching and fee issues. I would love to hear an update. I really hope things have improved.

 

[socko]

As long as the funds are rolled over and used for the gymnasts, you can have more than $1000 in your kitty. Our gym used to set an amount for coaches gifts, parties etc and that was part of the "administrative fee" in the assessment (but it was never more than about $65 per gymnast) ...we NEVER paid for gym equipment as part of our parents association assessments. Gym equipment is the responsibility of the gym and gym owners , not the parents. If the parents associations CHOOSES to gift the gym with equipment, that's a different story but it sounds like it is being mendated in your case.

I would seriously research a new gym. An hour's commute is not too bad for quality coaching and you probably wouldn't have to deal with the issues at your current place.