Hello and a Question

[NY Dad]

Hi-

First of all, hello. I’m a proud dad of two daughters (one does gymnastics and one doesn’t). Not sure if there are other dads out there.

My 7 year old daughter has been taking gymnastics classes for about a year. I hadn’t thought much about it and assumed it would be a passing interest as she's already gone through several sports for a very short stint. She really seems to love it and apparently complains every time her classes are over that it was too short and she wants to stay at the gym longer. She also stands on her hands now as much as she stands on her feet. She was just invited to join the level 2 team (after a few days of gymnastics camp at a different gym than she had been taking rec classes). She’s now talking about wanting to compete.

Right now my older daughter isn’t into any sports (she’s more artistic and loves reading). I always assumed that someday I would coach for one of my kids sport teams. So far it hasn’t turned out that way. I want to support my daughter in her gymnastics but unfortunately for me it’s not as easy as I think it would have been if she were on a soccer or softball team that I could have coached.

While I want her to compete (because she wants to), I know it’s going to take time to hone her skills and learn new ones. She wants to compete but she knows that she won’t get to do that until she’s at level 3. She also knows that there are skills she can’t do. I would love to help her with these skills. Not sure there’s much I can do but I thought I would ask.

One time she asked me to spot her. I think she was going to do a front or back handspring. Luckily for both of us she wimped out at the last second. We have a gym mat but I really don’t want her to get hurt.

Any thoughts/advice?

NY Dad

 

[Flyaway]

Hi and welcome! I think it's great you want to support your daughter and be involved in her sport. I will say though that if you spend ANY time reading the messages on this forum, you will see the overwhelming response to this question is ALWAYS: gym stays in the gym.

There are a ton of threads here written by parents struggling to keep gym in the gym, let the coach coach and just write the checks and stay out of it. We've all been there. It's not easy, but crucial if you want to avoid driving your child OUT of the gym.

I suppose if you're adamant you could get a job at the gym and learn to coach, but I doubt many would advise that. [emoji6].

 

[NY Dad]

Thanks Flyaway. I'll do some reading. Not sure how that would drive her out of the gym. She wants to practice. She wants to show me what she can do. I wouldn't push her. She gets excited so I get excited.

 

[raenndrops]

Hi-

First of all, hello. I’m a proud dad of two daughters (one does gymnastics and one doesn’t). Not sure if there are other dads out there.

My 7 year old daughter has been taking gymnastics classes for about a year. I hadn’t thought much about it and assumed it would be a passing interest as she's already gone through several sports for a very short stint. She really seems to love it and apparently complains every time her classes are over that it was too short and she wants to stay at the gym longer. She also stands on her hands now as much as she stands on her feet. She was just invited to join the level 2 team (after a few days of gymnastics camp at a different gym than she had been taking rec classes). She’s now talking about wanting to compete.

Right now my older daughter isn’t into any sports (she’s more artistic and loves reading). I always assumed that someday I would coach for one of my kids sport teams. So far it hasn’t turned out that way. I want to support my daughter in her gymnastics but unfortunately for me it’s not as easy as I think it would have been if she were on a soccer or softball team that I could have coached.

While I want her to compete (because she wants to), I know it’s going to take time to hone her skills and learn new ones. She wants to compete but she knows that she won’t get to do that until she’s at level 3. She also knows that there are skills she can’t do. I would love to help her with these skills. Not sure there’s much I can do but I thought I would ask.

One time she asked me to spot her. I think she was going to do a front or back handspring. Luckily for both of us she wimped out at the last second. We have a gym mat but I really don’t want her to get hurt.

Any thoughts/advice?

NY Dad

Hi. Welcome. As you will hear from MANY, MANY others, the best thing you can do to support your daughter is to NOT try to help her. Every coach and/or gym has a different style. They look for certain things. A self-taught (or daddy taught) gymnast often has a lot to unlearn… and unlearning then re-learning is more difficult than learning the right way the first time.

While you can't help her with the "gymnastics," you can help her by encouraging light conditioning (when she comes to you and wants your help, suggest that she stretch / condition "like they do in class").

In time, she may ask for a practice bar… repeat after me - "I will consider getting you a pull up bar, but gym needs to stay in the gym, so no practice bar."

She will learn the skills she needs in her classes. That is what they are for. The gym has a plan. They will get her where she needs to be. Gymnastics, as you have figured out, isn't like soccer or softball in that you don't compete immediately. You have to put in the time and do the drills and have the skills BEFORE you compete.

Good luck. And Again, welcome!

 

[Faith]

AS already said, leave the gym in the gym. You do not know how to coach gymnastics, and how the progressions work.

I am a gymnastics coach. I do not coach my own children. Gymnastics is high pressure, quite scary, and psychologically and physically demanding. She needs you to be a parent, support and tell her good job.

I was watching practice with my mum last week. She was a high level runner, and knows quite a lot about coaching and sport. She watched DD do a skill, and said "ooh, she needs to point her toes" I said no, she needs to open up her shoulders to get the technique right, the toes are insignificant. Sure enough, the coach pulled her over and showed her how to use her shoulders.

What I mean is you "helping" could mean she practices the skill incorrectly at home. You're telling her to point her toes, while the incorrect shoulder angle gets ingrained in her muscle memory and takes far longer to fix back in the gym.

If you have to do anything, you can help her condition, take her to the park, run races, swing on the bars, challenge each other to chin ups. But take my word for it, eventually she will be in the gym so much the last thing she wants is more coaching from you.

 

[B.Gold]

When my dd was exactly your dd's age she was learning flip-flops in the gym. They were looking beautiful. We thought we were helping and we purchased a backyard trampoline that we kept at a grandparent's house. She spent a long holiday weekend obsessively practicing those flip-flops; They were fun to watch and she had a blast.

But when we got back to the gym the following week, even I could see, her form was completely broken. I'm not exaggerating, it took nearly a year for her coach to help her fix it. (it felt like a year anyway...)

We've made other mistakes too, like asking her to"throw" tricks to impress friends..that have led to injuries.

But coach Faith is right, If you really want to be involved, anything involving strength seems acceptable. Make it fun. Go rock climbing, swing monkey bars, race up hills, do obstacles, swim. As my dd has gotten older my dh will take her to his gym as their time spent together. If she's really sore from the week, they'll just spend time in the therapy pool. You can help her by getting her to sleep early, or cooking nutritious meals, packing nutritious lunch boxes, rubbing out knots. There are lots of ways to be involved outside of just practicing skills.

 

[GymDad9.9]

NY Dad, fellow Dad here. Was once a successful baseball coach and always wanted to coach basketball. I have a gymnast daughter fairly new in the sport (two years) who has great passion.

The greatest thing you can do for your daughter is to support her with encouragement, love and financial wherewithal. This sport is highly specialized and amateurs and neophytes need to stay clear from providing hands on coaching. The best coaching you can do is to ensure your daughter is in a good gym with good coaching and good environment and that your daughter knows you support her through thick and thin. Leave the gymnastics to the experts. Let the gym be her sanctuary. Leave the gymnastics in the gym. She will get those skills. They will take time. She will grow as a Gymnast. Gymnastics is a journey that is not always smooth but it can provide your daughter a great foundation for life. Let her take the journey from a safe distance.

 

[LindyHopper]

Hi! A mom here, but I am married to the supportive dad.

I won't tell you what has already been said, but I will tell you what my husband has done.

He has been in the Navy (either active or reserve) for 21+ years. He worked strength and conditioning stuff they could do together: Crunches, push ups, pull ups. They would have playful competitions and cheer each other on. (Bonus was that he was also staying in shape for his next physical readiness test)

He made sure that her push ups were perfect. To this day, new coaches at the gym are blown away by how easily she does push ups with perfect form. More than once I've heard a coach say to a newer coach "her dad's a sailor". It has made doing push ups easier and more effective for her.

Strength and conditioning is stuff you would do anyway if you were coaching a soccer, basketball, softball, field hockey, lacrosse, or rugby team.

Also, learn what you can about the sport. Read here. Ask her to have her dolls demonstrate a skill when her descriptions get confusing and/or she gets exasperated with you for not understanding. When that fails, head to you tube and watch a video of the skill so you know what she's talking about. (I had to do this yesterday when mine was telling me about a full with a half twist)

Most of all, understand that this sport creates all-around amazing athletes, and be proud of her efforts. Welcome and glad to have you here!

 

[NY Dad]

Thanks for all the responses. This seems like a great supportive community, I was a little worried that this forum might be more for higher level gymnasts so I really appreciate all the great feedback from those that have already been in my shoes and especially from coach Faith.

I hear everyone loud and clear that I shouldn’t work on skills with her (even if she asks). I’m going to ask for a clarification below but first let me give you a little (or a lot) more background.

Raenndrops, you’re right on with your comment about not getting her a bar. She has asked for one and I told her no. So far I bought an over the door pull-up bar, balance beam (about a foot off the ground) and a few days ago I installed a stall bar.

I wish she were at the point where she spent so much time at the gym and isn’t looking to do more. At the gym she had been taking rec classes we were taking 2 classes a week that were each 55 minutes long. Once she starts on level 2 team at her new gym it’s 2 hours, twice a week. Over the last few months I’ve only spent on average about 30-45 minutes a day with her on gymnastics/flexibility/strength. (Once school starts I don’t plan to spend as much time on gymnastics.)

She’s very competitive with herself. She would ask me how long her longest handstand was. If I told her 10 seconds she would keep trying until she did one that was longer so I started keeping track. Now I have a journal with 3 categories: flexibility, strength and skills. She wants me to quantify everything (for example I would rate her split from 1 to 100). And she would keep trying to beat her previous record.

Here’s were my question comes in. I consider splits to be conditioning. One time when she was working really hard to beat her own record (based on my score of her split) she said that she had a sharp pain in-between her legs (only when trying to do a split). I called the gym and gave them heads up. Her gym said that it sounded like she pulled her groin and when she was in class they just told her to do what she could. She didn’t have any trouble walking and it was only when she was doing splits so I didn’t do them with her. She told me the pain was totally gone. We did splits yesterday and towards the end she told me the pain came back (we stopped immediately). I’m not 100% sure that she really had the sharp pain she had several weeks ago since when that originally happened she was very distraught and clearly in pain and this time it seemed more like she may have been worried that the pain would come back. Either way I didn’t want to risk it. Should we not be doing splits? We’ve been told (a few months ago) that she needs to work on her splits.

Also, she loves working on her cartwheels on the beam. She did her first one at home (not in the gym). And continued to work on it every day after she got it. Less than we week later she told me excitedly that at the last day of gymnastics camp she did a cartwheel on the high beam without being spotted. Hopefully I’m not going to be told that it’s a bad idea to work on beam at home. But I am looking for advice.

Thanks again

 

[skschlag]

One rule I had with my son when he was little is that he could not work on anything at home that didn't meet 2 of 3 criteria. 1. it had been mastered completely; 2. it was not dangerous, 3. coach had told him to work on it.

So he did practice splits, but I was not involved. He did practice handstands, but I was not involved. He had a journal that he kept. My job was to tell him how proud of him I was that he was working so hard to achieve something, and not to praise individual skills. Here is why.

He is now a level 9. Skills take FOREVER to get. Really. Months. So, if he thought that the only thing that was good was the achievement of skills, he would not be where he is today. Instead, he realizes that his dedication and hard work are what is important. As the skills get harder, and the level gets higher, he has to be working for himself, and I am his soft place to land. I get him to the therapy to deal with nagging injuries, and discuss how excited we are for the upcoming season to see his hard work. We emphasize the fun in gymnastics, and how proud we are that he works so hard. And he continues to push himself.

At the lower levels, it really does seem like helping is the thing to do, but really, you want them to want more at this age. And you also want them to be a kid. Because it didn't take long for my baby to be in the gym 20 hours a week.

 

[sce]

What do you mean by working splits? How long is she holding them? Is she doing any related stretches? Is she keeping her hips square? Are you pushing on her at all? Is she warming her muscled up beforehand? Just a few minutes of jump rope would help the muscles warm up.

Yes coaches often ask kids to work on flexibility at home. But they usually tell them what to do as well.

You can injure the hip flexor a by doing splits incorrectly.

Also, beam can get real dangerous at home. She should not work new skills at home.

 

[MrsAnderson]

The worst thing about kids (young kids) 'working' things at home is they come into the gym, especially a team situation, saying "Hi Coach So and So! I got my back tuck!" (or cartwheel on beam or aerial, or back handspring, or even splits!)
And then, as a coach who is supposed to be teaching them things the proper way with the proper foundations, I have to crush their little hearts by telling them they either aren't allowed to do it at gym yet, or that they aren't doing it correctly or safely (obviously we are nice about this).
The kid who is a level 2 and has a trampoline and can do a back flippy thing on it and comes to the gym thinking she is going to be competing back tucks now is going to be sorely disappointed when I make her continue doing back handspring drills.
I truly believe that this leads to some kids quitting because they are frustrated that they don't get to work on their new 'skills' at gym.
I have had MANY kids get their hopes up thinking they are down in the splits at home and then get so disappointed when I square them up and now they are 7 inches from the floor.

Be her biggest cheerleader, have loads of patience, stay fit with her, feed her well. Wear a hoodie with her gym's name on it to the meets.

 

[duyetanh]

I do not mean for this to sound harsh. I really dont! So if you take it this way, there is not much I can do about it. But....you are already doing too much.
The sport has to be hers. I understand it is hard when she is asking for help. Have her ask the coaches to show her what she can do at home, and have her do it independently.
Is there anyway you could assist with a kids league sport while she is at her new gym program? It sounds like you truly have it in you to be good at at the very least assistant coaching, and I know soccer teams (for ex) never have enough help. Volunteering is a great way to help the community. Feels great too.
Just my two cents, fwiw.

 

[ascarter1]

Hi-

First of all, hello. I’m a proud dad of two daughters (one does gymnastics and one doesn’t). Not sure if there are other dads out there.

My 7 year old daughter has been taking gymnastics classes for about a year. I hadn’t thought much about it and assumed it would be a passing interest as she's already gone through several sports for a very short stint. She really seems to love it and apparently complains every time her classes are over that it was too short and she wants to stay at the gym longer. She also stands on her hands now as much as she stands on her feet. She was just invited to join the level 2 team (after a few days of gymnastics camp at a different gym than she had been taking rec classes). She’s now talking about wanting to compete.

Right now my older daughter isn’t into any sports (she’s more artistic and loves reading). I always assumed that someday I would coach for one of my kids sport teams. So far it hasn’t turned out that way. I want to support my daughter in her gymnastics but unfortunately for me it’s not as easy as I think it would have been if she were on a soccer or softball team that I could have coached.

While I want her to compete (because she wants to), I know it’s going to take time to hone her skills and learn new ones. She wants to compete but she knows that she won’t get to do that until she’s at level 3. She also knows that there are skills she can’t do. I would love to help her with these skills. Not sure there’s much I can do but I thought I would ask.

One time she asked me to spot her. I think she was going to do a front or back handspring. Luckily for both of us she wimped out at the last second. We have a gym mat but I really don’t want her to get hurt.

Any thoughts/advice?

NY Dad

It's got to be her sport. It is easy for us as parents to get caught up in the excitement of this sport. I'm sure we have all been slightly over involved at one point or another. But you don't want to start heading down the CGD (crazy gym dad) road. IF she sticks with it, there will be a time that she doesn't want to "play gym" at home anymore. The best thing you can do is go for a jog with her, ride bikes, play tag, go swimming...this will promote a healthy mind and body. Please trust us, some of us have been in the sport for YEARS, and we wouldn't steer you in the wrong direction. And you have got to trust the process! Trusting the process is the BEST advice I can give you! The coaches have your child's best interest in mind! Trust them, let the coaching come from them. Your job is to be fun dad!

Best wishes on this journey!

 

[duyetanh]

My DH takes mine running for cardiovascular (coaches orders, put in some extra cardiovascular time)....and I might add, she kicks his *ss, heh heh....

 

[GymDad9.9]

Four hours a week Level 2 sounds like it might not be enough to feed your daughter's hunger for gymnastics.

 

[Sasha]

Hello NY Dad, and welcome! Pretty much all of us have been exactly where you are - with a new and very excited little gymmie who seems to have natural talent, drive, and a sudden, insatiable love (obsession) with a sport most of us knew little to nothing about.

It's natural that you want to share her love, and help her. The advice you have gotten so far is good. Actual gymnastics skills (like cartwheel on beam, back handsprings, all flippy things...) will almost always be ugly and take MORE time to learn properly if first 'learned' from mom, dad, and/or the backyard trampoline or floor beam. I don't know too many Level 2's who are being taught cartwheels on beam, but if you really think that skill is 'coach approved', I suggest flat out asking your coach if she is permitted to do that at home. If your daughter had already learned a proper cartwheel on beam in class, and had it consistent, then doing some at home is probably less risky (form-wise). The cartwheel on beam is a Level 4 skill, so expect progressions toward it to be taught somewhere around/after the time your daughter competes Level 3. I would say, since you have a home beam (hopefully with mats around it), she could perhaps practice handstands, maybe press handstands if she is working those, walks and kicks with straight legs and pointed toes, and anything in her level 2 class/routine that she already knows how to do well.

As for the journal, personally, I think it's fine for a 7 year old Level 2 and her Dad to keep a conditioning/strength/flexibility journal **as long as it is always initiated by the child**. I know my kids around that age went through the 'mommy time how long I hold my handstand!' phase, and yes, I would time them, and they taped a paper on the wall and would put in new 'records' each time they broke one. BUT, because I was already wise from reading Chalkbucket (thank you wise people!), I only participated when the kids instigated and asked me. I did not say "Hey, it's time for handstands" or "How about a handstand contest" or anything. But I did happily participate as timer and cheerleader. And for a time, one of my kids was asked by coach to work on flexibility at home and do his routine, which he memorized. I did help him keep a log for that (he was only 6), and he had a reward system where he got stars for completing each day, and after so many stars, he got some reward like a movie or ice cream or something motivating for putting in the effort. BUT I always made it clear, even to a 6 year old, that it was his choice. I never 'made' him do it. I only gave him permission to write in his star if he completed his routine (about 15 minutes). But if he didn't do his routine, that was his choice. So I think this kind of involvement where you are helping to record-keep is OK.

As for wanting more time in gym, 4-6 hours is pretty normal for L2 (basically pre-team) - some programs will go more, but that's a pretty typical range. Have you inquired at all about how long it will likely be before she moves up to more hours?

Everyone is absolutely spot on about leaving them 'wanting more' - the moment they feel they 'have enough', they may really have had enough and may burn out. That said, many 7 year olds can handle more than 4 hours per week. If it's going to be another year or so before she will increase hours, then a complementary sport is a great choice - climbing, soccer (for the running), swimming, yoga, martial arts, dance, or anything fun like fencing or bmx! Believe us ALL when we say we WISH we could go back to that luxurious time when our child ONLY went 4-6 hours per week. In very little time, it is 16-20+ hours, and there is no time to even EAT between gym, school, homework, driving around, and sleep. So as hard as it is to be patient with a gung-ho new little gymnast who wants to learn everything, and learn it fast and now now now, and be in the gym and doing gym 24/7... careful what you wish for.

 

[NY Dad]

Thanks again for all the responses. It’s very helpful to hear what everyone has to say. I’m not offended or taking anything the wrong way, I feel like everyone is being very helpful and supportive and really appreciate that. Also, I want to make it clear I'm answering based on what I've done in the past. I'm obviously reassessing what I'll do with her going forward (other than financial/emotional support).

Skschlag. I really like your 3 rules

“One rule I had with my son when he was little is that he could not work on anything at home that didn't meet 2 of 3 criteria. 1. it had been mastered completely; 2. it was not dangerous, 3. coach had told him to work on it.”

Once my daughter starts at her new gym I’m really curious to ask the coach of his opinion about what we should and shouldn’t practice at home. (Her old gym she was in a rec class, she was at gymnastics camp at different gym and they invited her to join the team so she hasn’t actually started yet). Before I wrote my initial post I didn’t realize how much harm I could potentially be doing so I don’t think I would though to ask the coach.

Sce, thank you for asking the specifics about when she does splits for me.

“What do you mean by working splits? How long is she holding them? Is she doing any related stretches? Is she keeping her hips square? Are you pushing on her at all? Is she warming her muscled up beforehand?”

When she does splits for me she does 1 minute hold (left in front, right in front and middle). Then she does each of these three for 1 second hold. She always asks me to rate her performance. Initially I was not having her warm up before because I was thinking of splits like stretching before we strength or skills, I thought it made sense to do flexibility first. I now know she needs to be warm first and do pre-stretching. I had to ask her about square hips, she showed me. Now that I’m aware of this, yes, her hips are square (but your point is taken, I didn’t even know what that meant).

Sasha, as I’ve been reading all the very helpful responses on this thread I’ve been reading some of the other posts on different threads. Regarding her doing cartwheel on a beam. She spent 2 weeks in gymnastics camp this summer. (2 different camps, and neither was as the gym she had been taking classes.) It wasn’t that we weren’t happy with the first camp, they were both last minute decisions and there was no room in the first camp that she had gone to. She ended up joining the team of the first camp that she went to. The second gym that she went to had girls in mixed levels and Xcel together. Based on what I’ve read in other posts over the last few days, it sounds like they may have taught her a new skill to get her excited and possibly want to come back to that camp again. I was very surprised when she told me that she was working on that. I also still have no clue what skills go with what level. I’m worried now that once she starts with her new team she’s going to have a lot of bad habits to break and potentially feel like they are holding her back b/c she won't be able to work on some of the skills she thinks she's ready for.

She can do handstands on the beam but she can’t do press handstands. She’s been working on straddle down (which was another new skill she came back with at camp #2).

Regarding comment

“As for the journal, personally, I think it's fine for a 7 year old Level 2 and her Dad to keep a conditioning/strength/flexibility journal **as long as it is always initiated by the child**.”

She often wants to work on the same skills (for example there were a few days in a row that she just wanted to work on cartwheel on a beam.) I try to steer her work on strength or flexibility but she’s determined to accomplish something I sometimes don’t stop her. Sometimes I need to push her a little to do pull-ups or something different b/c she’ll just focus on one thing.

We’ve been told that they continue to evaluate girls to progress to the next level (I’m not certain but I think level 3 is 6 hours a week.) We were given the impression that if she continues to work hard it could be a few months for her to get to level 3 but no guarantees.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

Fellow NYer here! Welcome! You've already gotten some great advice, and it's awesome that you're so open minded to it. There is so, so much to learn about this crazy sport and a ton of solid information on this forum. I've been here about 2 years now and the more I learn, the more I realize I need to know! You will find a lot of universal conventional wisdom, especially "Let the coaches coach", but you'll also find that there are huge differences between gyms in different areas, and even between individual gyms in the same area. Something that is totally normal in one gym could be unheard of or even taboo in another. I enjoy hearing about how other gyms work personally. Back to your original question and to each other what the others have said, the way I "coach" Puma Jr is to say "Listen to your coaches." The way she and I bond over her passion is through letting her tell me about things at her own pace and me answering her questions with only facts. She has a lot of questions about what skills are allowed in certain levels or what deductions are, and I feel comfortable researching cold hard facts for her. I would never answer a question (nor would she ask me at this point) about technique. Good luck!

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

Like most of the kids on this forum, Kipper wanted more, more, more gym from 4yo through about 9yo. Once she was training 16+ hours per week, she had her fill and no longer seemed to be upside down as much at home. She had a soft, floor beam, where she would spend hours each week practicing handstands, turns, kicks, etc. Eventually, practicing cartwheels and back walkovers. (now that I know how dangerous BWO can be for overuse injuries, I cringe when I think about how many she did!) From her earliest days, she was encouraged to work on her splits and handstands at home. We spent many baseball games (my son plays) standing near first base with me catching her feet as she practiced presses and pirouettes. She was about your dd's age when she begged for her own chin up bar. (and daddy happily came through). When she was younger, Kipper didn't care how much I knew or didn't know...and she was excited to educate me and share every detail. Now, at 12yo, she gets annoyed when she thinks I know too much. She very much wants it to be "her" thing, and does not want to share much at all. It was hard to step back, but absolutely necessary. So I do think you can be excited with her for now, and enjoy that the two of you can bond over the physical activity together. Just be cautious, and prepare to step back. Oh, and enjoy every minute you have with her, because you will soon find that time very limited!