Parents How gyms vary

[mobeans]

With "move up season" upon us and all sorts of talk of some gyms scoring out of certain levels, others almost always repeating 4 or 5, some trying to get kids to optionals faster, others spend more time in compulsories. WHY?!? It's all so confusing! Is it based on the gyms ultimate end goal? Such as, an elite gym is more likely to push to optionals sooner? Or do they believe solidifying those compulsory skills is more important?

I know there isn't "one answer fits all" but I would love to hear about how your gym works and why. I guess I'm really trying to understand why our gym does what they do...

Also what's up with Level 6? It's optional but not required...why does it exist, lol?!?

 

[Azgymmiemom]

Our gym is still a mystery to me.BUT I think new level 6 was created to keep more kids in this sport. They get to create their own routines! It's the same skill set as 5, but personalized. I think it really works to keep more kids in this sport. Level 7 requires giants to be competitive. Some kids aren't ready for that.

 

[Aussie_coach]

If you want to get gymnasts to higher levels, especially elite you apcant spend too much time on compulsorily unless you plan to do a lot of up training.

Skills like Giants, cast to handstands, double backs etc are best learned when introduced young. If you wait too long the chances of elite dissipate.

 

[ProudDad]

While many of us can guess at how a gym does it move up season, it is easiest to have a conversation with the coaches. Making sure the gyms goals aligned with our DD's goals was part of our selection criteria. That said I know from having that conversation that or gym's focus is on getting girls prepped for scholarships to D1 schools. They look at where they think individuals could reasonably compete the following season and place girls with similar abilities in training groups that are likely to be a certain level, those groups then start on getting the skills ready to be safely and competitively performed. Shortly before meet season rolls around we find out final placements and the coaches are typically dead on with their initial analysis... even when injuries or other setbacks happen. They do "uptrain" some skills, my L6 had started doing giants, but doesn't compete them. When all is said and done it is a rare thing for any of our team girls to score below 35AA unless they scratch an event. The philosophy is that they need to have a very solid foundation on nailing skills before the ramp up the difficulty. This helps build confidence, keeps (mentally) them in the sport longer, keeps them safer, makes them physically and mentally stronger, and gives them more visibility to scouts than just simply being able say "I'm the youngest L_ here..." but then scoreing low 30s. Mine is younger, but she is the exception, most of the other girls headed for L7 are 11-13.

 

[mobeans]

While many of us can guess at how a gym does it move up season, it is easiest to have a conversation with the coaches. Making sure the gyms goals aligned with our DD's goals was part of our selection criteria. That said I know from having that conversation that or gym's focus is on getting girls prepped for scholarships to D1 schools. They look at where they think individuals could reasonably compete the following season and place girls with similar abilities in training groups that are likely to be a certain level, those groups then start on getting the skills ready to be safely and competitively performed. Shortly before meet season rolls around we find out final placements and the coaches are typically dead on with their initial analysis... even when injuries or other setbacks happen. They do "uptrain" some skills, my L6 had started doing giants, but doesn't compete them. When all is said and done it is a rare thing for any of our team girls to score below 35AA unless they scratch an event. The philosophy is that they need to have a very solid foundation on nailing skills before the ramp up the difficulty. This helps build confidence, keeps (mentally) them in the sport longer, keeps them safer, makes them physically and mentally stronger, and gives them more visibility to scouts than just simply being able say "I'm the youngest L_ here..." but then scoreing low 30s. Mine is younger, but she is the exception, most of the other girls headed for L7 are 11-13.

I really like the way your gym works!

I know what our gym's end goal is and they do well/score well...but I think they hold kids back unnecessarily sometimes. They want the kids scoring around 37, which I think may be more in the gym's best interest vs. the gymnast's. Clearly if you are 35/36 you are safe and proficient. 37+ is really just more hardware which makes the gym look better :/

 

[mobeans]

Our gym is still a mystery to me.BUT I think new level 6 was created to keep more kids in this sport. They get to create their own routines! It's the same skill set as 5, but personalized. I think it really works to keep more kids in this sport. Level 7 requires giants to be competitive. Some kids aren't ready for that.

I am curious why some gyms don't compete 6? Ours competes 5, often spending a few years at 5, then moving straight to 7. We don't compete 6.

 

[AmandaLynn]

Our gym is really individualized. Some kids will repeat, some get pushed through faster. We have 10 year old level 4s and we have 11 year old level 10s. We also have 6 year old level 3s and graduating senior level 10s. And everything in between.

When you start trying to fit all of the kids into one box, you run into problems. Some kids are ready for big skills early, and some need more time.

I will say that all of our kids compete a full season at level 4 and at level 5. If they "skip" levels, it is usually in optionals. Many times out kids will compete level 5 in the fall and then do 7 in the spring if they are ready. We have also had kids do 8 and 9 in the same season if they are ready.

I really like the individualization.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

We like to compete kids right where they are proficient and still improving. Our gym does not have a numeral score requirement to move up, only a skill requirement. Potential level training groups are set at the beginning of summer but level not decided until later in the fall. Our coaches really do try to get everyone to move along and keep progressing at about 1level/year through compulsories but will "repeat" kids as needed and there's no shame in that at all. Once in Optionals obviously it's much more common to spend 2 or even 3 years at each level, depending on the gymnast!
Our skill requirements to move into the next level are fairly strict. We are a small/medium gym but HC is really big on progressive skills and looking towards what the gymnasts will need to succeed as they go along. Temporary fixes and substitute skills aren't really done. For instance no Giants=no L7 even if you're there on everything else. You must compete Giants in your L7 bar routine. Period. They don't have to be stellar, but they have to be there. We have had a few girls who were really close to getting them after working on them for quite some time who were allowed to move into L7 with the assumption they would indeed get their Giants during season (which happened!!) but they scratched bars for the first couple of meets until the Giants were in place.
We choose to compete L5 and skip L6, our coaches believe 5 is more fundamentally important and don't see a reason to go into a level where technically one can compete lesser skills than the mandated compulsory skills.
Most of the gyms around here choose to score out of 5 and compete 6 because it's more "fun" and tends to keep kids in the sport. It seems to be a "feel good" thing for the parents as well (" Precious Snowflake is an optional gymnast!") but it's pretty funny when you chat with them and realize their L6 is competing a cartwheel on beam while my L5 is competing a BHS..!
I would say our gym is fairly competitive but certainly not in the highest tier once you figure in the large powerhouse gyms in the largest metro area. All our meets are travel meets and we tend to do well enough, usually have kids on the podium and usually place as a team. We don't hold kids back in order to score super high and sweep everything score wise, our kids compete RIGHT at their current level with room for improvement.
I am very happy with our gyms philosophy!!

 

[Gymmommy71]

Around me many gyms decide if they will compete 6 based on the makeup of their gymnasts from season to season - if they have ~8 or more girls that fit the profile to be successful 6's but aren't quite ready for 7, they'll make a 6 team, but if it's only 3-4 girls like that they may split them between 5 and 7 and not have a 6 team. Several gyms in my area do it this way and the topic of whether or not any given gym is going to have a 6 team the following year is always an item for discussion at the end of the competition season (especially if your kid is a gymnast that would make a good 6, isn't close on her Giants, and doesn't feel like repeating 5 ) DDs gym had a pretty large 6 team this year and even we (meaning the parents, hopefully the coaches/owners know) aren't sure if they'll have one next year - they could just move all those girls to 7 and make the not ready for 7 L5's repeat 5. It's a numbers game as well depending on how many new gymnasts come, how many leave, etc.

Re: move ups, gyms around me seem to move up girls when they have the skills to be successful enough in the next level - successful enough is prob a 35. Usually kids who can get multiple 36 AAs at major meets will move up, but not always, and just cause a kid can't get a 36 doesn't mean they won't move. A gym that tried to enforce a 37 rule and kept kids in compulsaries when they were able to score well enough in optionals probably would lose a lot of gymnasts to competitors.

 

[mom2newgymnast]

I also find the differences in gym philosophies very interesting. I do understand that girls that are wanting to go elite are different in terms of their timeline, but I don't really understand the rush to optionals for the rest at some gyms. Personally I am in no hurry to increase the hours (and the risks involved)!

Dd's gym does not train elite. Their goal is college scholarships for their level 10's. They compete compulsories and optionals and do not uses Xcel as a way to avoid compulsories, although we live in a state/region that apparently is known for using it that way. In general, the girls compete each level of compulsories, 2-5, usually one year per level. 2 is the general entry point for girls that are coming from training group, although it isn't required. From what I understand, level 4 is never skipped. There have been a few that go from 4-7, but most girls do compete level 5. We had a handful of girls this year that finished 5 in December, starting in January competed 6 for 3-4 meets and then moved to 7 for the rest of the season. That seems pretty typical for how they use 6, when they use it, although it is often skipped. Levels 7-9 do train together and there is a lot more uptraining and acquiring of skills.

In compulsories, there really is not a lot of uptraining going on during the season. She is not at a gym where they are competing level 4, but have level 6-7 skills. It's pretty much train and learn all the next level skills Dec-June. Learn your level in June and then continue perfecting the skills/routines through September. Compete Sept-Dec and then repeat. Sometimes I think about how if she was at another gym, she could be doing all the big tricks that I hear about other 8 year olds doing, but ultimately I think she is where she should be right now. Her gym is competitive in both the compulsories and optionals and my dd loves it and is doing great. She has beautiful form and was quite successful as a level 3. Just about all of the girls on her team are easily picking up the level 4 skills due to all of the conditioning and drills/practice they have been doing. I think the fundamentals and the strength and conditioning work they do will serve her well when, or if, she makes it to optionals.

 

[Committed]

I really like the philosophy of DDs gym. No elites - college scholarships are a focus. Plus, they don't deny kids joining team, as long as they meet requirements.

There are no score requirements to move up, but there are strict skill requirements.
So, a girl can score at the bottom of the pack in L5 and move directly to L7 if she has KCHS and giants. Personally, DD has been much more successful in optionals than she ever was in compulsories!

As for L6, the gym just started it this year. It's used as a bridge between L5 & 7. If the gymnast doesn't have her giant by October, she will compete L6 - instead of training for a year to get to L7.

 

[ProudDad]

Since I didn't mention it before... our gym uses the XCEL program and doesn't do compulsory (aka I will never get that friggin floor music out of my head). Typically after gold they will transition to either 6 or 7... very few go straight to 7. We also have people who continue in the xcel program beyond gold, typically not by coach placement.

I wouldn't say XCEL is a way to avoid compulsory, rather it allows flexibility and can create opportunities for individualized attention for specific skills and tailoring routines to match capabilities. Our first year in bronze was treated just like compulsory, everyone did exactly the same routine to the same music and they had all the skills from L3 in each event. They have since changed so that all xcel levels operate more like optional.

I'll also add that we do occasionally see skill based mid-season advancements. DD split silver and gold during fall/spring 2014-15 as an example.

 

[LizzieLac]

Our gym is similar to Committed's. Kids are not denied from joining team. Anyone can join our Xcel Bronze team. From there it is all by coach invitation, for other Xcel levels and the JO team.

Moving up is about skill proficiency and not score. There are skill requirements to move up. For level 7 you must have layout on floor, giant on bars, and BHS on beam. If you are missing one of those things, you either do level 6 or Xcel Platinum. This gives the girls the flexibility to upgrade where they have skills, be in the best position to perform well and safely, and never be shut out from competing.

The overall philosophy is also one of personalization. My DD does not want to do college gym, nor is she a good candidate, but she has always had a good amount of success. They do try to move some girls fast, if it is right for them, while other girls will repeat. It is RARE that someone skips a level or scores out to move up without doing most of the season at that level. Compulsories are important - it is the foundation for long term success. Most of our upper levels get scholarships and compete in college but we have had plenty of level 9s and 10s who didn't want to do college gym - they get the same attention as the ones that do.

 

[Aussie_coach]

I also find the differences in gym philosophies very interesting. I do understand that girls that are wanting to go elite are different in terms of their timeline, but I don't really understand the rush to optionals for the rest at some gyms. Personally I am in no hurry to increase the hours (and the risks involved)!
.

The rush is due to the fact that for the vast majority of skills gymnasts will learn them better prior to puberty. This does not mean that the gymnast can't continue to grow and learn after puberty but the process is much easier with pre pubescent kids.

Regardless of whether their goal is the Olympics, elite, college scholarship, level 10 or just to learn as much as they can while they can most gyms want each child to reach their own ultimate potential and this is one of the strategies to achieve that.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Why? Because they say so.

For our gym, they like solid skills and then want to get them to higher skills before puberty and fear hits. They like to say we train them to be gymnasts, not do tricks. And they want them to have college as an option if they work hard enough.

We (as in my husband and I like how they do things). We moved to this gym the first year of the new levels. They did not do score outs in compulsories. Optionals are strictly skill based. If you have them you can move. And they don't do individual score outs still. Personally I think because the owners/coaches don't want to deal with CGM and score out stuff tends to encourage that (based on my limited experience).

They have girls up train all year and prefer to keep the kids at a level where they will be reasonably successful to very successful (not ringers though). So you do need the skills to move up. So things like no kip, no L4. So we don't stress levels because uptraining is always happening.

This is the first year the coaches will be scoring the girls out. But they are all L4 girls, who have been uptraining and pretty much all have most of their skills with another 6 months to get what they need and refine. I think the coaches are comfortable with the new levels now and expectations and this group of girls are all pretty good gymmies. So they will be scoring out of L5 and will be L6 next season. The ones not ready to move won't be ready for 5 or 6 and the ones ready to move will be able to do 6. So to 6 we go Yippie.