Women Is a backwards pass needed?

[Momma Bear]

Do you need a backwards tumbling pass for a level 9 and/or 10 floor routine? If so, what’s the deduction for not having one?

 

[ego248]

I don’t know. But there is a college gymnast who does almost all front tumbling. https://www.google.com/amp/s/gymnasticscoaching.com/2021/02/19/who-is-kendall-whitman/amp/

 

[rlm's mom]

College gymnastics has totally different rules to JO. As far as I know level 9/10 do have to have a back tumbling pass but I don't know the deduction for not having one.

 

[gympanda]

There is a flat .1 composition deduction for not having saltos/aerials in 2 different directions: bwd & fwd/swd.

If you shared the passes, I would be happy to let you know overall composition issues that may be there additionally outside of this flat .1 deduction.

 

[Momma Bear]

There is a flat .1 composition deduction for not having saltos/aerials in 2 different directions: bwd & fwd/swd.

If you shared the passes, I would be happy to let you know overall composition issues that may be there additionally outside of this flat .1 deduction.

Level 9 passes- front handspring, front layout, front pike
Front full, front pike
And rudi

Level 10 passes I think she’d do a front double (twisting not sure what that’s called). Also not sure which pass that would replace.

Thanks so much for your help!

 

[gympanda]

L9: that routine would not incur a composition deduction for acro up to the level because she was a B+B, C+B, C (rudi is a D, but is credited at L9 as a C).

L10: if the E front double twist takes the place of the B+B pass, she would have E, C+B, D. Which would incur no up to the level acro deduction. If the double takes the place of any other pass and the B+B is still in the routine she would have a .1 composition deduction. If that B+B was the last pass in the routine she would incur an additional .1 composition deduction for dismount not being up to the competitive level. But, if she ends with either the E or the D there is no dismount composition deduction.

**This is only taking into account acro composition deductions. There are additional composition deductions relating to dance that could be taken depending on the dance elements.

 

[Momma Bear]

L9: that routine would not incur a composition deduction for acro up to the level because she was a B+B, C+B, C (rudi is a D, but is credited at L9 as a C).

L10: if the E front double twist takes the place of the B+B pass, she would have E, C+B, D. Which would incur no up to the level acro deduction. If the double takes the place of any other pass and the B+B is still in the routine she would have a .1 composition deduction. If that B+B was the last pass in the routine she would incur an additional .1 composition deduction for dismount not being up to the competitive level. But, if she ends with either the E or the D there is no dismount composition deduction.

**This is only taking into account acro composition deductions. There are additional composition deductions relating to dance that could be taken depending on the dance elements.

This is so helpful! Thank you for taking the time to reply and explain!

 

[Momma Bear]

L9: that routine would not incur a composition deduction for acro up to the level because she was a B+B, C+B, C (rudi is a D, but is credited at L9 as a C).

L10: if the E front double twist takes the place of the B+B pass, she would have E, C+B, D. Which would incur no up to the level acro deduction. If the double takes the place of any other pass and the B+B is still in the routine she would have a .1 composition deduction. If that B+B was the last pass in the routine she would incur an additional .1 composition deduction for dismount not being up to the competitive level. But, if she ends with either the E or the D there is no dismount composition deduction.

**This is only taking into account acro composition deductions. There are additional composition deductions relating to dance that could be taken depending on the dance elements.

Sorry, one clarifying question, would she still incur the .1 deduction for not having a backwards pass?

 

[gympanda]

Sorry, one clarifying question, would she still incur the .1 deduction for not having a backwards pass?

Yes! Sorry! That deduction would happen with no backwards pass at both levels.

 

[Neeksthegymnast]

There is a flat .1 composition deduction for not having saltos/aerials in 2 different directions: bwd & fwd/swd.

If you shared the passes, I would be happy to let you know overall composition issues that may be there additionally outside of this flat .1 deduction.

For level 8 floor would these 2 passes meet requirement? Their both front tumbling passes would she get a deduction?

1) FHS FF
2) FT RO BHS Arabian

Thank you

 

[Neeksthegymnast]

For level 8 floor would these 2 passes meet requirement? Their both front tumbling passes would she get a deduction?

1) FHS FF
2) FT RO BHS Arabian

Thank you

Sorry FT Step Out

 

[gympanda]

For level 8 floor would these 2 passes meet requirement? Their both front tumbling passes would she get a deduction?

1) FHS FF
2) FT RO BHS Arabian

Thank you

An Arabian is considered a backward salto since the take off is backward. So, these two passes would not incur the composition deduction for the direction of saltos.

The thing to look at in this routine is having 3 different saltos. I can't know what you refer to with the FHS FF...is that a Front Tuck, Front Pike or Front Layout? But, if that FHS FF is a front tuck, then there are only 3 saltos in this routine.

If you don't have 3 different saltos then that routine would be missing a special requirement and your Start Value would be at least a 9.5 (without knowing the rest of the routine I can't say for sure what the SV would be.)

 

[Neeksthegymnast]

An Arabian is considered a backward salto since the take off is backward. So, these two passes would not incur the composition deduction for the direction of saltos.

The thing to look at in this routine is having 3 different saltos. I can't know what you refer to with the FHS FF...is that a Front Tuck, Front Pike or Front Layout? But, if that FHS FF is a front tuck, then there are only 3 saltos in this routine.

If you don't have 3 different saltos then that routine would be missing a special requirement and your Start Value would be at least a 9.5 (without knowing the rest of the routine I can't say for sure what the SV would be.)

Hi!
Oh excellent I thought the Arabian was front.
Yes she only has 2 passes I’ll write them out more clear below

1) Front Handspring Front Full
2) Front tuck step out, Round off, back handspring, Arabian.

She does a double turn, her leaps are Switch Split to Switch half.

 

[Neeksthegymnast]

Hi!
Oh excellent I thought the Arabian was front.
Yes she only has 2 passes I’ll write them out more clear below

1) Front Handspring Front Full
2) Front tuck step out, Round off, back handspring, Arabian.

She does a double turn, her leaps are Switch Split to Switch half.

So her three Saltos in her routine are

Front Full (first pass)
Front tuck and the Arabian (second pass)
That totals three.. is that ok?

 

[Neeksthegymnast]

So her three Saltos in her routine are

Front Full (first pass)
Front tuck and the Arabian (second pass)
That totals three.. is that ok?

Also is Arabian and A B or C skill?

 

[Neeksthegymnast]

Also is Arabian and A B or C skill?

I have another question if you don’t mind as well, it’s a bar question.

Our kiddo was told on her release move from the low to the high bar if she doesn’t make it up from kip to handstand initially she can kip again and go up to finish her routine with no penalty.

But from what I read any extra kip swing etc is like 0.3 deduction.

What’s your knowledge on this?

 

[gympanda]

Also is Arabian and A B or C skill?

so sorry...I used to get notifications when threads I was replying to were replied to.

An Arabian is a B skill.

If that first pass is a front full - then she does have the 3 different saltos. C's are restricted acro at Level 8, but gymnasts are allowed 1 in the routine. So, that routine would work!

 

[gympanda]

I have another question if you don’t mind as well, it’s a bar question.

Our kiddo was told on her release move from the low to the high bar if she doesn’t make it up from kip to handstand initially she can kip again and go up to finish her routine with no penalty.

But from what I read any extra kip swing etc is like 0.3 deduction.

What’s your knowledge on this?

If she goes kip, cast but doesn't make it to handstand and then would need to kip again to get a cast to handstand (maybe she really needs the handstand to complete the next skill?) there isn't necessarily a penalty for the extra kip. Now - obviously there would be execution deductions on the first kip cast if it was done poorly due to lack of momentum from her release.

But, an extra swing (extra tap swing, extra cast, etc.) would result in a .3 deduction.

If I am misinterpreting what you mean, just let me know!

 

[Neeksthegymnast]

so sorry...I used to get notifications when threads I was replying to were replied to.

An Arabian is a B skill.

If that first pass is a front full - then she does have the 3 different saltos. C's are restricted acro at Level 8, but gymnasts are allowed 1 in the routine. So, that routine would work!

That’s great no deductions woohooo!
I have another question if you don’t mind as well, it’s a vault question.

Vault she is doing a open Tsuk vault.. what the start value for that? Is it the same as a normal Tsuk tuck?
Thank you!

 

[Neeksthegymnast]

If she goes kip, cast but doesn't make it to handstand and then would need to kip again to get a cast to handstand (maybe she really needs the handstand to complete the next skill?) there isn't necessarily a penalty for the extra kip. Now - obviously there would be execution deductions on the first kip cast if it was done poorly due to lack of momentum from her release.

But, an extra swing (extra tap swing, extra cast, etc.) would result in a .3 deduction.

If I am misinterpreting what you mean, just let me know!

Nope you got it that’s the issue she is not getting that juice she needs out of her release so a lot of the time she needs a extra kip to get up to handstand to her giants and flyaway