Anon Is TOPS a Talent Pipeline or a Legacy Relic?

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Anonymous (43af)

I want to open a discussion about whether the TOPS program still makes sense as a structure in 2026, and I'm genuinely curious what people who follow the sport think.

The late specialization research is pretty settled at this point. Athletes who specialize early face higher rates of overuse injury, burnout, and shorter careers. The sport with the most to gain from this research should arguably be gymnastics, where career longevity has historically been brutal. And yet TOPS is still built on the premise that elite potential must be identified before a child turns 10.

What I find hard to reconcile is that gymnastics itself has started to disprove this. Over the last 15 years or so we have seen adult women — not teenagers — competing and winning at the highest levels of the sport. The 2024 Paris Olympics made that very clear. So the old assumption that the body can only perform elite gymnastics in a narrow window of early adolescence is no longer holding.

It's also worth comparing gymnastics to other Olympic sports with very similar physical demands:

— Diving requires the same spatial awareness, air sense, body control, flexibility, and fearlessness. Elite women divers compete well into their late 20s and are not identified through intensive programs at age 8.

— Rhythmic gymnastics shares the same governing body as artistic gymnastics and demands identical qualities — flexibility, strength, body control, and artistry. Yet elite rhythmic gymnasts consistently peak later than their artistic counterparts, which raises an obvious question about why the development models are so different within the same sport.

— Artistic swimming requires extraordinary flexibility, spatial body awareness, breath control, and physical strength. It is one of the most physically demanding Olympic disciplines and yet its athletes regularly compete at elite levels into their late 20s without being funneled into identification programs as young children.

— Freestyle skiing aerials demands the same air sense, spatial awareness, and fearlessness required for vaulting and release moves in artistic gymnastics. Athletes in that discipline specialize and reach their peak considerably later than artistic gymnasts.

So the question I keep landing on is this: if comparable Olympic sports can produce world-class athletes without intensive early identification programs, what specifically does TOPS offer that justifies the model? Is it producing better outcomes for athletes, or is it a legacy structure that persists because the sport has always done it this way?

Research shows the average age at which children drop out of competitive artistic gymnastics is just 9 years old — meaning the majority of children being fast-tracked never even make it to their tenth birthday in the sport. The overwhelming majority of children funneled into accelerated tracks will not have elite careers — but they will have had those additional hours extracted from childhood.

I'm also curious whether anyone thinks the culture that enabled systemic abuse within USAG — which relied heavily on total control over very young athletes — has genuinely been interrogated when programs like TOPS remain structurally unchanged. Or is that too uncomfortable a question for the sport to sit with?

Looking forward to hearing from people with more history in the sport than I have.
 
We like the TOPs abilities and use it as the foundation for our strength training- it is a great tool for expediting skill acquisition. We don't believe in age discrimination so we haven't participated in TOPs testing. We tend to the TOPs abilities every day; ~100 preteam/team members. If we had any age-eligible kids who have the abilities at the right time, we'd consider taking them to testing because it might be fun- but it's not a primary motivation.

My hypothesis/2 cents- in the past, high performance gymnastics coaches have operated under a pedagogy of "If I craft a brutal enough workout regiment and expose enough young gymnasts to it, eventually some tough enough kids will come around and reap the benefits- who cares about the burnout and overuse injuries of the majority", then this phenomenon is referred to as "early specialization", and the supposed remedy is to just not go to gymnastics as much to curb the overtraining. Do some swim and basketball to water it down?

I think you can do some good ole', fairly intense traditional gymnastics training (tops abilities etc.), monitor athletes' wellbeing and keep open communication about aches and pains; responses to hard training- abide by doctors orders after injury occurs and this can lead to an enjoyable competitive gymnastics experience. It is probably better to start sooner but it'd be nice to see more gymnasts stay in the sport longer, and perhaps we will start seeing slower and more gradual training arcs as more professionals start to believe that adult gymnasts can reach the highest level.
 
We like the TOPs abilities and use it as the foundation for our strength training- it is a great tool for expediting skill acquisition. We don't believe in age discrimination so we haven't participated in TOPs testing. We tend to the TOPs abilities every day; ~100 preteam/team members. If we had any age-eligible kids who have the abilities at the right time, we'd consider taking them to testing because it might be fun- but it's not a primary motivation.

My hypothesis/2 cents- in the past, high performance gymnastics coaches have operated under a pedagogy of "If I craft a brutal enough workout regiment and expose enough young gymnasts to it, eventually some tough enough kids will come around and reap the benefits- who cares about the burnout and overuse injuries of the majority", then this phenomenon is referred to as "early specialization", and the supposed remedy is to just not go to gymnastics as much to curb the overtraining. Do some swim and basketball to water it down?

I think you can do some good ole', fairly intense traditional gymnastics training (tops abilities etc.), monitor athletes' wellbeing and keep open communication about aches and pains; responses to hard training- abide by doctors orders after injury occurs and this can lead to an enjoyable competitive gymnastics experience. It is probably better to start sooner but it'd be nice to see more gymnasts stay in the sport longer, and perhaps we will start seeing slower and more gradual training arcs as more professionals start to believe that adult gymnasts can reach the highest level.
If you took out the conditioning they do that is specific to TOPS how many hours less would they be training?

I 100% believe conditioning is needed. It helps to create strong bodies and that should create safer bodies but how fast is too fast? How many hours is too much? I know all kids are different and it seems the majority dont like conditioning but my child does lol. That said shes young.
 
What's with all the anonymous tops posts of late? Anyway time to point out truths.
What I find hard to reconcile is that gymnastics itself has started to disprove this. Over the last 15 years or so we have seen adult women — not teenagers — competing and winning at the highest levels of the sport. The 2024 Paris Olympics made that very clear. So the old assumption that the body can only perform elite gymnastics in a narrow window of early adolescence is no longer holding.

That argument doesn't hold on it's own when the bulk of those athletes still started young and did fairly high hours.

— Diving requires the same spatial awareness, air sense, body control, flexibility, and fearlessness. Elite women divers compete well into their late 20s and are not identified through intensive programs at age 8.
Divers are often former gymnasts who have spent considerable time developing air sense in early years. From what I have seen, the kids do pretty high hours in competitive diving programs - especially China the world leaders.

— Rhythmic gymnastics shares the same governing body as artistic gymnastics and demands identical qualities — flexibility, strength, body control, and artistry. Yet elite rhythmic gymnasts consistently peak later than their artistic counterparts, which raises an obvious question about why the development models are so different within the same sport.
Again, top programs are doing high hours at a young age often with methods that make artistic gymnastics shameful past look like a cakewalk. There are significant issues around Rhythmic gymnastics in general.

— Freestyle skiing aerials demands the same air sense, spatial awareness, and fearlessness required for vaulting and release moves in artistic gymnastics. Athletes in that discipline specialize and reach their peak considerably later than artistic gymnasts.
Again, most of these athletes are recruited from gymnastics/Trampoline athletes and that air sense was developed when young. Same with bobsleigh and skeleton - athletes recruited from other sports.

I absolutely agree that young gymnasts don't have to be pushed so hard and fast.

However I do believe that air sense is best developed early. For me that means doing variations of twisting and multiple flipping via trampoline progression and forgiving surfaces without always putting those skills in routines. That still requires a fairly high level of physical preparation to do safely.
 
What's with all the anonymous tops posts of late? Anyway time to point out truths.


That argument doesn't hold on it's own when the bulk of those athletes still started young and did fairly high hours.


Divers are often former gymnasts who have spent considerable time developing air sense in early years. From what I have seen, the kids do pretty high hours in competitive diving programs - especially China the world leaders.


Again, top programs are doing high hours at a young age often with methods that make artistic gymnastics shameful past look like a cakewalk. There are significant issues around Rhythmic gymnastics in general.


Again, most of these athletes are recruited from gymnastics/Trampoline athletes and that air sense was developed when young. Same with bobsleigh and skeleton - athletes recruited from other sports.

I absolutely agree that young gymnasts don't have to be pushed so hard and fast.

However I do believe that air sense is best developed early. For me that means doing variations of twisting and multiple flipping via trampoline progression and forgiving surfaces without always putting those skills in routines. That still requires a fairly high level of physical preparation to do safely.
I love this outlook with your gymnasts!! Exposing them early makes sense. But expecting perfection so young does not.
 
I’m not understanding all these TOPS posts either and to me some of them seem to be the same person based on writing style.

Early specialization is not just limited to gymnastics. It’s a problem in all youth sports (for example there are high school baseball players that need Tommy John surgery - totally a result of early specialization and overuse). The other sports you mentioned are not youth sports in the US and/or are just not popular in the US.

Also, it’s important to consider the source of the systemic abuse you mention. Old school coaching practices were imported in the 1980s with all of the Soviet bloc defectors and a bit later, coaches from China. They brought over the methods and practices developed in their home countries. It was a huge honor for kids to be selected for training - often relocating away from home from an early age. Lines were blurred between national identity and participation on the world stage for sports. I once went to a gymnastics camp in the mid-80s. Rhythmic gymnastics was offered as a rotation and taught by a coach from a Soviet country. She saw potential in me and started talking to me about wanting to meet my parents and maybe moving away from my family and training with her and her husband. I was 11! I thought she was joking but later another coach who thought it was absurd asked me what all she said to me because she told him the same thing! I made sure my mom stayed far away from her after the camper exhibition at the end of the camp.

Another thing I haven’t seen mentioned yet is the collective toll on the body that is gymnastics. It’s not just overuse or early specialization. Just watch any NCAA meet and notice how many are taped. Most of the athletes on my DDs college team were actively managing chronic injuries or pain. I don’t think it will ever be common for adults to compete elite gymnastics in their late 20s or older.
 
I’m not understanding all these TOPS posts either and to me some of them seem to be the same person based on writing style.

Early specialization is not just limited to gymnastics. It’s a problem in all youth sports (for example there are high school baseball players that need Tommy John surgery - totally a result of early specialization and overuse). The other sports you mentioned are not youth sports in the US and/or are just not popular in the US.

Also, it’s important to consider the source of the systemic abuse you mention. Old school coaching practices were imported in the 1980s with all of the Soviet bloc defectors and a bit later, coaches from China. They brought over the methods and practices developed in their home countries. It was a huge honor for kids to be selected for training - often relocating away from home from an early age. Lines were blurred between national identity and participation on the world stage for sports. I once went to a gymnastics camp in the mid-80s. Rhythmic gymnastics was offered as a rotation and taught by a coach from a Soviet country. She saw potential in me and started talking to me about wanting to meet my parents and maybe moving away from my family and training with her and her husband. I was 11! I thought she was joking but later another coach who thought it was absurd asked me what all she said to me because she told him the same thing! I made sure my mom stayed far away from her after the camper exhibition at the end of the camp.

Another thing I haven’t seen mentioned yet is the collective toll on the body that is gymnastics. It’s not just overuse or early specialization. Just watch any NCAA meet and notice how many are taped. Most of the athletes on my DDs college team were actively managing chronic injuries or pain. I don’t think it will ever be common for adults to compete elite gymnastics in their late 20s or older.

To be fair the majority of NCAA gymnasts you are watching were likely participating in TOPS, a lot of hours at a young age, etc.
 
I don’t think TOPS strength and skills is problematic, but the mindset it creates amongst parents and coaches.

When you identify a child through their natural ability at a young age it can create pressure and expectations that are unnecessary.

It’s not the time put into TOPS, but being a high level at a young age requires too many hours.

I really wish USAG would limit training hours and raise the age limits. There is absolutely no reason to do level 10 at age 9/10.

I don’t know what the limit should be, but kids under 10 years old should not be doing 25+ hours per week for sure.
 
I’m not understanding all these TOPS posts either and to me some of them seem to be the same person based on writing style.

Early specialization is not just limited to gymnastics. It’s a problem in all youth sports (for example there are high school baseball players that need Tommy John surgery - totally a result of early specialization and overuse). The other sports you mentioned are not youth sports in the US and/or are just not popular in the US.

Also, it’s important to consider the source of the systemic abuse you mention. Old school coaching practices were imported in the 1980s with all of the Soviet bloc defectors and a bit later, coaches from China. They brought over the methods and practices developed in their home countries. It was a huge honor for kids to be selected for training - often relocating away from home from an early age. Lines were blurred between national identity and participation on the world stage for sports. I once went to a gymnastics camp in the mid-80s. Rhythmic gymnastics was offered as a rotation and taught by a coach from a Soviet country. She saw potential in me and started talking to me about wanting to meet my parents and maybe moving away from my family and training with her and her husband. I was 11! I thought she was joking but later another coach who thought it was absurd asked me what all she said to me because she told him the same thing! I made sure my mom stayed far away from her after the camper exhibition at the end of the camp.

Another thing I haven’t seen mentioned yet is the collective toll on the body that is gymnastics. It’s not just overuse or early specialization. Just watch any NCAA meet and notice how many are taped. Most of the athletes on my DDs college team were actively managing chronic injuries or pain. I don’t think it will ever be common for adults to compete elite gymnastics in their late 20s or older.
I'm curious if these girls on your daughters team were pushed to focus early on gymnastics and train very high hours. Oh yes, allllll the tape which is so sad to be honest that they have to deal with that so young Do you think if they had been given less hours in the gym to purposely cross train else where it would have made a difference? As a parent do you feel as though it was worth it? How does your daughter feel?

We are at the start of this journey and who knows where it will go but for safety I have been thinking of having my child possibly train something like a pre hab to see if that might help at all in preventing injury.

That is crazy that you were asked to go live without your parents but I know I have heard of that happening when I was growing up with olympians during the specials they would show on tv.
 
I don’t think TOPS strength and skills is problematic, but the mindset it creates amongst parents and coaches.

When you identify a child through their natural ability at a young age it can create pressure and expectations that are unnecessary.

It’s not the time put into TOPS, but being a high level at a young age requires too many hours.

I really wish USAG would limit training hours and raise the age limits. There is absolutely no reason to do level 10 at age 9/10.

I don’t know what the limit should be, but kids under 10 years old should not be doing 25+ hours per week for sure.
Yes!! I am in this thought process. Why not push it back some? I love the idea of the strength and conditioning and the exposure to skills early but the perfection and competing them early requiring HOURS a week to get there seems to be a bit much.
 
I'm curious if these girls on your daughters team were pushed to focus early on gymnastics and train very high hours. Oh yes, allllll the tape which is so sad to be honest that they have to deal with that so young Do you think if they had been given less hours in the gym to purposely cross train else where it would have made a difference? As a parent do you feel as though it was worth it? How does your daughter feel?

My DD was not on a Top 25 team. Most athletes came from the state of her school or surrounding states. Most went to traditional high school. I don't know the hours they all trained in high school but it was probably in the 20-25 range. I don't consider that 'very high hours' for L10. I also don't believe you can train L10 on all 4 events safely and/or for a long period of time with less than 18 hours per week. As far as all tape at NCAA meets - I wouldn't really call that 'sad' either. Just part of being an athlete at the highest level your sport offers. As far as 'was it worth it'? My answer is no but that's a whole separate conversation and not related to injuries/overtraining. My daughter speaks positively about gymnastics but also has a few regrets (not related to overtraining, injuries or her overall performance in the sport).
 
Is it theoretically possible that a kid who specializes early enough to be a TOPS kid may reach a higher peak than that same kid might have if she hadn't done TOPS? Sure. I'm not convinced that this is universally the case, but I can't rule it out as a possibility.

But without knowing the future for any particular kid, if I want to maximize their odds of making it to college or elite, the primary goal should be on getting them to stick with it for the long haul.

It's all about playing the odds. Anything that decreases the odds they'll stick with it for the long haul is a poor gamble to make.
 
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TOPS exists because there is demand for a way of getting your very young child noticed somehow no matter what gym you are at or where you live. There is a weed out effect because of the requirements. The kids that can do the TOPS physical testing do tend to be good gymnasts and have a lot of potential, so in that sense the program is successful in narrowing down the pool and identifying high potential athletes.

It's akin to something like little league and kids not being looked at as true prospects unless they can throw 75mph, or are over 6ft tall, or can run a 4.3 40. It creates a requirement that eliminates the majority of the rec kids and while eliminating thousands of good prospects as well, the thought is that if they are so good they will rise up to the top anyways without the program.

I guess If not 5 press handstands what would be a good arbitrary standard for gymnastics?
 

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