MAG JD1 vs JD2

[Pwicks]

Can someone explain the difference between JD1 and JD2? Our coach is considering putting some boys in JD (to help with transition from level 7 to level 8, i.e. compulsory to optional level). There are other gyms that have JD programs, which seem like recreational boys programs but this seems different than that. I've been hunting for some explanation on the USAG website but couldn't find it.

 

[skschlag]

JD1 gets element group credit, and JD 2 does not. It allows JD2 boys to skip element groups that they cannot do without penalty. So JD 1 start values will be higher.

I would say the kids I know competing JD2 are coming from 5/6 adn are older, and those doing JD1 are more like 7/8/9 but out of age.

Moving from JD to 8 would be strange to me. L8 does not use pommels and JD does not. So going, say, JD1 to 8 to 9 would be pommels, no pommels, pommel.

 

[skschlag]

It explains the divisions a bit in this:

Link Removed
p7 and 9

 

[Cheryl]

My son did JD1 for 2 years after completing Level 6. Our gym doesn't really do Levels 7 and 8, so JD is kind of its own Level. The JD1's were divided into 2 groups 11-14 and 15-18. My son was in the younger group. They practiced the same hours as the 9's and 10's, so it wasn't considered a rec league, but for kids who were either out of age group, or were in age, but the coaches wanted to be able to get them on the pommels and up train as much as possible. This year, my son is 14 (15 in gymnastics age) and will be doing Level 9

Our gym also had jD2. This was more of a rec league program, they practiced fewer hours and worked mainly on skills from compulsory levels. Most of the kids were doing gym as a second activity, but some were Level 6's who didn't have any bonuses yet, they moved up to JD1 the second year.. We even had a couple boys who were in 15-18 but did it primarily to condition during the off months from their primary sports. It was nice seeing how excited these big football and lacrosse players were when they would win a medal.

The only caveat is that not all gyms treat JD equally. Some, like ours, use it as the first optional level. Some, use it more for a rec league.

 

[Pwicks]

Thank you! This is helpful. Our boys team is new to JD so trying to see how all this fits and what may be a path for my own son. My son just finished level 6 (he had many of the L6 bonuses) and our coach is now training him for Level 7. But it sound like the coach could just put him in JD1 for 2 years. (I leave all this to the coach of course but its just interesting to see what others are doing).

 

[OwlGalLiz]

Our gym is working to help build up the JD and especially the JD2 program in our area. The JD2 guys are the coming off compulsory (most are coming off 5/6) and starting on Optionals. They are there because there are “holes” to work on to be Optionals on all equipment. The majority of our Jd2 guys are in the 11-14 competitive age. It’s not rec league, they are working to be whole in Optionals. The JD1 guys are more equivalent to the 9/10 guys and are working to be whole (or they may not be in age) there. Many of our guys skip 7 and 8 and go JD during that level of progression. Some are selected to do it, but most don’t. All JD and 7-10 practice 20 hours a week.

 

[Cheryl]

It seems that it might have been started as a “lesser” option, like the no bonus division in compulsory, but the age changes and limits really threw a curve ball into the progress map of many boys.
Going into the next change after the 2020 season, it will probably decide if JD stays or goes. If they go back to higher age limits in optional, there really isn’t a reason to keep it, because a kid could repeat a level and still be in age. If, however they go the opposite way and put a full stop on kids over 12 competing 8, most gyms are going to have to develop JD, and I imagine it will look a lot like what my and OwlGalLiz’s gyms are doing.

Personally, I would like to see more age groups in levels and no upper limits. Some kids might be ready for Level 10 at 13, and some 17 year olds might be still at level 8. I do think in order to cut down on the repetitive injuries and mental stress that drive a lot of kids out, could be addressed by practice limits. If you’re under12 you can’t practice over 16 hours, if your under 16, you can’t practice more than 24.

 

[skschlag]

It will be interesting. D will be down to his last year, so I expect the changes to not affect him much, other than does he compete 18 or 19.

There used to not be any limits on optionals. Not sure if they will go back that way or not. I think they like the lower limits, but I can see maybe taking away the upper. It would take some reconfiguring with nationals, although they are already considering it.

This will be the 4th code change for D, and the speculation leading up is way more fun than when it actually comes out! LOL!

 

[Madden3]

Our gym is working to help build up the JD and especially the JD2 program in our area. The JD2 guys are the coming off compulsory (most are coming off 5/6) and starting on Optionals. They are there because there are “holes” to work on to be Optionals on all equipment. The majority of our Jd2 guys are in the 11-14 competitive age. It’s not rec league, they are working to be whole in Optionals. The JD1 guys are more equivalent to the 9/10 guys and are working to be whole (or they may not be in age) there. Many of our guys skip 7 and 8 and go JD during that level of progression. Some are selected to do it, but most don’t. All JD and 7-10 practice 20 hours a week.

Our gym is similar in it's approach to JD. The way our coach explained the levels to me was that JD 2 roughly equivalences with JO 7 and 8, and JD1 with 9 and 10. (in the latter case, I guess a kid who is a L10 on some but not all events.)

I am not sure how JD could be done as a "rec" option unless both the gym and the gymnast were fine with low scores (which would be fine, of course). Or the kid was particularly good and for some reason just did not need optional typical hours. In our region, at least, JD is too competitive to really have much less training hours. My son was JD 1 last year and this year, and he is currently training 18 hours a week over 5 days, which IMO is plenty, and is not realistically going to leave time for doing another sport. (For comparison, the 6s and 7s at our gym train 15 hours.) Last year, both the optional jos and jds trained 19 or 20 hours. This year the JOs (mostly 9 and 10s, I think there might be one 8) are training more- I think about 23 hours. Mostly I think because we have more 10s this year, or maybe this year the coach just was able to arrange more training hours overall and decided to give that to the upper level JOs. JDs and JOs do not have the exactly some training hours but most days they overlap most of the practice.

The divisions were not in place the first season (or 2? I forget) where there was JD. It was just JD. So you had kids with level 7 skills competing with kids with Level 9 and in some cases kids who had level 10 skills on some events. Adding the divisions made JD work better IMO.

 

[Cheryl]

The upcoming will be our third. Even tough we were still in compulsories, it seemed like a much simpler system. A kid could do a clean routine without the bonuses and out score a kid who did the bonuses sloppy.

They have created a lot of stratification, JO vs JD. Div 1 vs Div 2, who is in age vs out of age. Just seems a big disconnect that the sports seems to demand 15 year olds reach Level 10 in order to be considered for Nationals, but the best gymnasts are in their mid 20’s. There’s a huge difference in what pre, pubescent and post pubescent boys can do, and between 11-16, there’s a huge discrepancy between boys. I wish the current system supported male physical development more and was less concerned with chronological age.

 

[skschlag]

The upcoming will be our third. Even tough we were still in compulsories, it seemed like a much simpler system. A kid could do a clean routine without the bonuses and out score a kid who did the bonuses sloppy.

They have created a lot of stratification, JO vs JD. Div 1 vs Div 2, who is in age vs out of age. Just seems a big disconnect that the sports seems to demand 15 year olds reach Level 10 in order to be considered for Nationals, but the best gymnasts are in their mid 20’s. There’s a huge difference in what pre, pubescent and post pubescent boys can do, and between 11-16, there’s a huge discrepancy between boys. I wish the current system supported male physical development more and was less concerned with chronological age.

I find the biggest "division" being JE/JO. It makes no sense. NO one cares after high school about the tech sequences. colleges do not care. Some kids just do not have the time to do JE, and they are penalized for it. JD, I love. It was awesome for D when he needed it, and for many of the boys on our team.

 

[Madden3]

I wish the current system supported male physical development more and was less concerned with chronological age.

I agree.

I find the biggest "division" being JE/JO. It makes no sense. NO one cares after high school about the tech sequences. colleges do not care. Some kids just do not have the time to do JE, and they are penalized for it. JD, I love. It was awesome for D when he needed it, and for many of the boys on our team.

JD has worked out well for my son, but as far as our experience, it was only needed because of the implementation of the upper age limits in JO. I do not know much about JE at all, but it always struck me as odd to have JD, JO and JE.

 

[skschlag]

so, back in the day, L8 was not a "real level." If you progressed through the levels, you skipped 8. 8 was pretty much what we now call JD. Then they made 8 a level, which I htink started the talks about JD.

Very few boys were sticking around at that point to be an 18 yo L8. Even if you could make nationals. So I do thikn they started JD for some of these reasons. But, this is all speculation!

 

[Madden3]

Oh interesting! So this predated the time when almost everyone skipped 7?

 

[skschlag]

It was when D was 4-5 so like before the switch with the 2012 Olympics

 

[Madden3]

Oh ok. My oldest was a Level 4 in season 2012, and I was pregnant with my daughter and had no idea about what was going on ha. I do not think I learned much about optionals until the 2016 changes. That son was a Level 7 in 2016, (he had done two years of 5)and I remember the Level 7 meets were sparse and hearing on here that many gyms did not do Level 7.

 

[acam1103]

I find the biggest "division" being JE/JO. It makes no sense. NO one cares after high school about the tech sequences. colleges do not care. Some kids just do not have the time to do JE, and they are penalized for it. JD, I love. It was awesome for D when he needed it, and for many of the boys on our team.

Just curious, in what way are those who don't do JE penalized? I found it very interesting when we were at a college camp that the coaches also seemed to not be fans of JE but they didn't really explain why. If my son moves to L8 next year (and if the rules still have any similarity to the way they are now) he would have to compete JE because he would only be 10/comp age 11. I'm curious about the advantages and disadvantages of going that route.

I am also very interested to see what happens with JD. I really hate the upper age limits for a long time and I'm still not sure I love them, but I am becoming a fan of JD now that are gym is using it (though they are only doing JD1). Any changes to that program will greatly impact my older two boys. It's going to be interesting to find out what is in store!

 

[skschlag]

I guess penalized was a bit too harsh. But basically, they are not allowed to compete at qualifiers to try to go to championships. Some of the JO kids are right on that edge, and could be competitive there, especially the top 10 JO boys. But in order to go to the qualifier, they have to do JE OR opt out of nationals. It is just one of the rules. It is what it is D is contemplating JE this year just for that reason, but I bet he still does JO

 

[Pwicks]

That doesn't seem to make sense that the alternative to JE is to opt out of nationals.

Someone told me that the good gyms in NJ (which is where I am) don't bother with the technical sequences. (which I assume means they don't bother with JE). Is that right?

 

[skschlag]

That doesn't seem to make sense that the alternative to JE is to opt out of nationals.

Someone told me that the good gyms in NJ (which is where I am) don't bother with the technical sequences. (which I assume means they don't bother with JE). Is that right?

Yes. That would mean they do not do JE.

It isn't the only alternative. It is only the option if you want to try to get to Championships. D did decide to just do JO, and be a part of the JO team and had a fairly successful nationals. I just wish it was not an either or proposition.