junior. Intermediate,Senior? Can someone explain?

[OzZee]

Just wondering if the option is there for a gym to employ coaches & have an in house comp to qualify?

Auswi - no, the qualifiers are specific gym nsw run events.
In the lower levels there are (used to be?) sanctioned invitationals as qualifiers but seniors (and now 5/6) it's just the big gym nsw ones. (Seniors have always had 2, not compulsory to do both but a better chance).

 

[Alie21]

Just wondering if the option is there for a gym to employ coaches & have an in house comp to qualify?

No chance - we had planned to do a regional comp to qualify but it is a no-go, so I wonder how many will bother to do those comps now? We won't be going anyway.

The Metro Qualifier will kind of be a States before States! Wonder how they will do the sessions at actual States since there is no team event, just 1-6th. Maybe they will try to group the top qualifying girls in the same session or something to evaluate the best of the best? By age? That's how the Seniors do it right?

Are the other Aussie states having more than one qualifier at NL5&6? Is it just NSW doing this crazy thing?

Thanks OzZee - I hope so too, or at least she isn't the only one from her team who doesn't - that must be so hard

 

[auswi]

That makes it really hard- gymies will have to be really en pointe that day.
Wonder what the reasoning is?
I know in Vic that the scores from the Interstate comp for IL can be used as qualifiers for Aus Champs, but I'm unsure about NL.

 

[Alie21]

Yeah I know - my DD will come into it from her first 3 day school camp (Wed - Fri), hope she doesn't draw 7am Saturday morning! On the other hand if it is Sunday we will loose out on the tickets we have already booked as we thought it would be ok to qualify at a regional event like last few years!! Sigh - if it isn't watching the beam skills it's the comp timing that will make the rest of my hair grey What a crazy sport! Luckily she loves it and the boys side seems entirely sane so far, 4 qualifier chances there

 

[OzZee]

That makes it really hard- gymies will have to be really en pointe that day.
Wonder what the reasoning is?
I know in Vic that the scores from the Interstate comp for IL can be used as qualifiers for Aus Champs, but I'm unsure about NL.

As far as I know it was just the two qualifiers plus states that qualified the teams to nationals in nsw for wag not any interstate comps for all senior levels including il (definitely for RG)

For senior levels in wag - 2 qualifiers - all scores were counted (i.e. Best score from a trial) and the specified number per level went to states (done overall even though there were 2 age divisions).
Then at state the state team to nationals was also over the two age groups but individual placing was over each age group.

I guess at 5/6 there are so many girls. But it kind of makes states redundant, if they can run a qualifier with anyone entering then why not run that as states.
And the singlets are quite nice this year - though don't think as hard wearing as previously.

 

[Deedee]

Unfortunately a lot of parents don’t do their research. If you look at gymnsw technical handbook it will show you each competition and each age group for the level. I believe you are talking about the state club championships in difference to state. The state club championships are grouped by jnr int and snr. Well at least it was last year. If your coach is saying there is no team it means your gymnast may only have a small number of intermediate gymnasts for that level for your gymnast to be apart of meaning your gymnast may not be able to compete in the state club championships as you need a minimum of 4 or something. I urge all parents who wish to comment or ask questions to other parents and not the coaches about competitions to look at the technical handbook as this will answer a lot of questions Before asking parents who are in the same boat as you as this then creates conversations about coaches “not knowing what they are doing “ or “ not having the best interest for your child” unfortunately now with the association lowering the skills for each level the amount of gymnasts in a level increase. For example the State last year had so many seperate divisions that instead of competing against every gymnast in your level and only one person being the State champion for that level. We now have a rediculous amount of divisions in the lower levels that there happens to be like 2 or 3 champions in that level “for their division” which some may enjoy that more people receive medals. Unfortunately we have seen massive reprocussions in Australian gymnastics by lowering the skills at each level. Yes more gymnasts are able to get to a higher level. But has anyone thought about investing in creating more qualified coaches who are able to teach the skills needed for higher levels and skills. I know of about 7 coaches in Australia who have the knowledge and skill level to coach gymnasts to this standard. How many parents have done their research on the actual coaches who coach your child and whether they have the ability to even coach your gymnast to succeed past a certain level or standard of gymnastics which not only affects their representation in the state but will give them an opportunity for more. Because I guarantee 80 percent of parents have not looked at their gymnasts coaches past. Our assosiation gives coaches online courses and face to face courses with the basics. But it’s years of knowledge and the experience of coaches and the coaches who coach our coaches which creates amazing fundamentals to succeed.

 

[Deedee]

Ok it sounds like your coach is unprepared to take a child alone to a session.
I've actually never heard of that happening. Do they have higher level gymnasts? Because unless it's a massive club then by level 8 you are sure to only have 1-2 girls in a session at the bigger comps.
How many girls are there in the level.
The first two are individual comps (though how can he guarantee the other girls will be in the same age group as who is a junior and who is a senior is only determined after entries close for both of those comps. The girls must be a lot younger for him to be so sure. How old is your dd that he is certain she will be a senior?

As for the top 6 thing being the team - that would only apply to state clubs. And there are no age divisions for state clubs (all mixed teams) so she should have that position on the team.

As for it being too expensive. Do you directly pay for the coach for a competition? Do you have affiliated judges (I'm not sure what the current policy is but it is likely to be if you don't provide a judge for each session you have girls competing you have to pay a $100 fine).
But I've not heard of a club not allowing a girl to compete because they are the only one in a session or directly passing individual costs onto a child (usually you pay an extra say $20 per comp on top of the entry fee and that covers everyone competing - so some comps they might have 10 girls in a session, some only 1, but you pay the same extra - usually you wouldn't even know the amount as it's just a single comp entry figure you are given.
But I'm sure it has been done where individuals are charged their cost but seems an odd and very unfair way of doing things.

One other thought if he is using the terms junior , intermediate, senior then I think he is incorrect as I'm pretty sure for level 5 this year there is only 2 age divisions (not predetermined) and mixed groups for state clubs. The divisions he is mentioning are not current.

And one more thing - are these girls really high scorers? As only the top 160 girls from the qualifier (and country champs) are selected to state so he can't know who qualifies until after the July comp.

Honey you need to update your knowledge
In regards to costs for competitions. Gymnsw set out
A cost for each individual gymnast to attend. It is then up to the actual gym to provide a judge for each session your gymnasts are in and also provide the coaches for your gymnast. If a gym does not provide a judge then it is a $100 fine to that gym for each session your gymnast is in. Now unless a judge from your gym is willing to do it for free then the gym has to pay them, I think maybe or maybe not the assosiation provides some funds. But if they do it is minimal for a whole Saturday and/or Sunday with petrol. Road tolls and to spend a weekend away from either studying as most judges are uni students or from their families. In regards to coaches to be with your gymnasts the gym also has to pay them and it is not only your gymnast for the how ever many hours the coach is with. But with a big gym they can be there all day Saturday and Sunday 9 hours each day. Most gyms split the cost of judging and coaching between the number of gymnasts attending and then add the fees from the assosiation to attend. If your gymnast is attending State you would hope your coach has a higher enough accreditation or experience to be earning a fair amount on the hour to look after and coach your child. If it is only one gymnast for the age level stated on that session which may run for the 2 hours or so only on one day then that gymnast will have to pay for that one judge and coach and entry fee. The coach may be aware of the setting for that Comp. And not want to put the family in that strain if they are unable to share the expense over a number of gymnasts if there is only
One gymnast for that session

 

[OzZee]

UMM don't call me honey and information from 1-5 years ago may well be different to it is this year. (I don't have time to read through). But no I don't have to update my knowledge and trawl through old threads every time gymnastics Australia updates their rules.

Please do not reply to old threads.

 

[Deedee]

UMM don't call me honey and information from 1-5 years ago may well be different to it is this year. (I don't have time to read through). But no I don't have to update my knowledge and trawl through old threads every time gymnastics Australia updates their rules.

Please do not reply to old threads.

The time this post was made the technical handbook was still the same information in regards to home competitions for lower levels. That’s what I’m saying. Your post about this was not correct information in the year this post was made. I’m trying to show that this parents forum is not right when parents are posting about competitions and other parents who are not fully informed of the technical handbook put their two cents in with incorrect information.

 

[Deedee]

The time this post was made the technical handbook was still the same information in regards to home competitions for lower levels. That’s what I’m saying. Your post about this was not correct information in the year this post was made. I’m trying to show that this parents forum is not right when parents are posting about competitions and other parents who are not fully informed of the technical handbook put their two cents in with incorrect information.

Parents need to read their states technical handbook which is freely on all states websites or communicate with a coach or a judge who have the knowledge before asking other parents who then reply of what their theory is which most of the time from reading these threads is not true.

 

[OzZee]

The time this post was made the technical handbook was still the same information in regards to home competitions for lower levels. That’s what I’m saying. Your post about this was not correct information in the year this post was made. I’m trying to show that this parents forum is not right when parents are posting about competitions and other parents who are not fully informed of the technical handbook put their two cents in with incorrect information.

I have just read through the post you quoted and I can not see anything in it that was not correct at the time of writing.

It was mostly about ways I have known coaches over the last 15 years to charge for competitions; how age divisions had worked over the previous 5 years; and how this persons coach may have been thinking to give them ideas of what to question.

You do not know who I am or what my accreditation is.

And as I see you’ve been warned previously do not bump old threads on this forum.

 

[Deedee]

I have just read through the post you quoted and I can not see anything in it that was not correct at the time of writing.

It was mostly about ways I have known coaches over the last 15 years to charge for competitions; how age divisions had worked over the previous 5 years; and how this persons coach may have been thinking to give them ideas of what to question.

You do not know who I am or what my accreditation is.

And as I see you’ve been warned previously do not bump old threads on this forum.

Warned ?

Warned in regards to reading a post and commenting my opinion. Yea alright jump off your high horse.

 

[Deedee]

I have just read through the post you quoted and I can not see anything in it that was not correct at the time of writing.

It was mostly about ways I have known coaches over the last 15 years to charge for competitions; how age divisions had worked over the previous 5 years; and how this persons coach may have been thinking to give them ideas of what to question.

You do not know who I am or what my accreditation is.

And as I see you’ve been warned previously do not bump old threads on this forum.

But I've not heard of a club not allowing a girl to compete because they are the only one in a session or directly passing individual costs onto a child (usually you pay an extra say $20 per comp on top of the entry fee and that covers everyone competing - so some comps they might have 10 girls in a session, some only 1, but you pay the same extra - usually you wouldn't even know the amount as it's just a single comp entry figure you are given.
But I'm sure it has been done where individuals are charged their cost but seems an odd and very unfair way of doing things.
This was ur statement. So ur saying if there is only one gymnast from that gym in their session that the gymnast should not have to pay the full cost for entry, judge and coach for that one session. Who do u think is suppose to pay the coach and judge then? Does the business take the money out of their pocket to supplement the fact that there is only one child for that session. Or does the child wait for another competition where the ages are different so that the cost can be shared amongst the gymnasts.

 

[txgymfan]

Deedee,

Warned ?

Warned in regards to reading a post and commenting my opinion. Yea alright jump off your high horse.

Deedee,

As a Moderator of Chalkbucket, I am asking you to please be nice. We don't comment on old threads because the situation has usually resolved and people get confused. It's called Necroposting and its against the rules.

 

[OzZee]

But I've not heard of a club not allowing a girl to compete because they are the only one in a session or directly passing individual costs onto a child (usually you pay an extra say $20 per comp on top of the entry fee and that covers everyone competing - so some comps they might have 10 girls in a session, some only 1, but you pay the same extra - usually you wouldn't even know the amount as it's just a single comp entry figure you are given.
But I'm sure it has been done where individuals are charged their cost but seems an odd and very unfair way of doing things.
This was ur statement. So ur saying if there is only one gymnast from that gym in their session that the gymnast should not have to pay the full cost for entry, judge and coach for that one session. Who do u think is suppose to pay the coach and judge then? Does the business take the money out of their pocket to supplement the fact that there is only one child for that session. Or does the child wait for another competition where the ages are different so that the cost can be shared amongst the gymnasts.

deedee most gym's charge the cost of entry plus a coach/judge subsidy. This is not usually a direct cost of what that gymnast is going to cost for that competition but an overall cost to the gym of competing, So each person competing pays the same amount whether there is 1 or 10 girls in the session. (ie if they have 30 girls over 4 session then each of those 30 girls pays the same amount regardless of how many of them are in each session).

I'm sure there are gyms that charge exact costs per person competing, though that would be very complicated accounting wise - and I'm sure they would struggle to keep girls in the club at a higher level.
Maybe you have been at one of these clubs?
But in all the years I have been associated with gymnastics clubs and running competitions I've never heard of a club charging gymnasts individually for their own costs (well other than when there is only 1-2 girls competing in any session of course) - which is exactly what I stated in my original post, that it's not usually done that way but maybe that was what the club in question was doing to explain the high costs.

 

[Deedee]

deedee most gym's charge the cost of entry plus a coach/judge subsidy. This is not usually a direct cost of what that gymnast is going to cost for that competition but an overall cost to the gym of competing, So each person competing pays the same amount whether there is 1 or 10 girls in the session. (ie if they have 30 girls over 4 session then each of those 30 girls pays the same amount regardless of how many of them are in each session).

I'm sure there are gyms that charge exact costs per person competing, though that would be very complicated accounting wise - and I'm sure they would struggle to keep girls in the club at a higher level.
Maybe you have been at one of these clubs?
But in all the years I have been associated with gymnastics clubs and running competitions I've never heard of a club charging gymnasts individually for their own costs (well other than when there is only 1-2 girls competing in any session of course) - which is exactly what I stated in my original post, that it's not usually done that way but maybe that was what the club in question was doing to explain the high costs.

No I’m stating if she is the only gymnast in that level and only in one session.

 

[OzZee]

No I’m stating if she is the only gymnast in that level and only in one session.

Deedee, I've looked through this thread and I can be sure that my technical knowledge as stated was very much correct. (unless I specified something I was unsure of - I have read the technical handbooks, as well as the non public coaches handbooks, run competitions, had current accreditation, etc, in various gym sports)

If you are saying that your daughter was the only one in a level/session and had to pay full costs for coaching and judging for that session then I will say that is very rare (as stated I can totally believe it happens but I've never actually encountered it in many many years of gymnastics competitions in different facilities). And honestly IMO if your child is in a level under level 8/9 and is being charged an exorbitant fee to cover her sole cost for a session (if there are other athletes competing in other sessions at the same competition) then personally I'd change gyms.

I have no idea what level your daughter is or what level or club she is at or your gymnastics experience, maybe in your area the clubs are different to what they are in the areas I've worked in.

 

[Deedee]

Exactly just because you have not seen it doesn’t mean it does not happen. I am extremely discouraged that through the amount of backlash In regards to me commenting on old posts that you have even told me not to do that you continue to show that those rules don’t apply to you. Disgusted.