Learning air awareness

[Deleted member D3987]

no reason to do 1 3/4 front somi's. if there is no reason or purpose then avoid doing those. please.

stay away from the back 1 3/4 also. same reason. please.

 

[ameragym]

Sorry about the misunderstanding in dunno's post. Sometimes he sounds confrontational but his intentions are in your best interests. I presume he is concerned about neck injuries. Tricks that aim close to a head or neck impact are risky. I look at it like people who like to eat shallow water barracudas. Its not worth the risk when there are so many other fish in the sea you can eat that taste better and have almost no risk of grievous consequences.

However, I have to agree with you aerialriver. A 3/4 back and 3/4 front landing on trampoline are basic skills that every trampolinist learns. Knowing how to do them is actually essential to prevent injuries. A good trampolinist will know how to avoid head or neck impacts by knowing how to safely land on every part of the body without getting hurt. A trampolinist learns to escape landing on their head. 3/4 fronts and backs contribute to this talent. Sometimes the only option for a trampolinist in mid air is to tuck under and land on their back safely. Or open out and land on their stomach.

I appreciate your sentiments dunno but you should qualify your statements so they are not misunderstood or taken the wrong way. Instead of conforming to the subject of this thread dunno, your comments steer away from the questions and do not answer them.

aerialriver, it would help if you learn to spot (visual). On the double back, if you are seeing the bed too soon because your head is back then this will throw off the timing of you knowing when to open. The timing for a landing on your back or on your stomach is different from the timing of landing on your feet on doubles. With the head neutral or in on the first flip, you should spot the bed on the first rotation at the proper point and then you can anticipate the bed at that spot for the second flip even if you look back on the second flip.

My guess on your back stuff is that you are leading with your head and this is throwing everything off. On back flipping the head needs to be in at the beginning and on front flipping the head needs to come in or it will lag behind. On back stuff you should be blind at the beginning and see where you are just after. On front stuff you see where you are at the beginning but then looking in you loose sight of the bed. However, twisting brings the bed back into view. What counts is where your head was before the twist.

Leave your head in or neutral on back stuff and on front stuff tuck in your head. Then look for the bed as you turn and spot the bed. If there is no twisting then your timing will adjust to when and where you spotted the bed.

 

[CoachGoofy]

Are you setting enough to have air time and feel where you are?

If, for example, on your back 1 3/4 you have time to kick out and see the trampoline and circle your arms through to the front drop, waiting an extra quarter rotation to kick out is a matter of nerves. Do everything the same & you're safe, it just feels different & you have to feel everything happen a bit later.

For the 1 3/4 front did you learn 1 1/4 fronts first? Once those are solid you can set up and bounce over to your back and get the "I'm going to DIE" feeling out of your system with a skill where you see the drop.

For twisting, we do the full twist jump half twist thing. Also be sure you know what you're looking for at the end & to give yourself enough height to take your time. I also like forward roll to roll over on the ground, but you're past that I'm pretty certain.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Why? They are used in trampoline all the time. Many girls my level compete a back 1 3/4 to a pullover. And a lot of people do front 1 3/4 into a ballout, barani ballout, or rudi. It is really common practice in t&t.

i am concerned about spinal cord injuries. very much so. as you stated going backwards above, you must mean a back 1 1/4 to the back and then a pull over. a back 1 3/4 would be to the stomach.

in my day, i competed front 2 3/4 to the back then full in barani out off my back to dismount.

i also competed back 2 3/4 then back in full out dismount. when i was 15, i opened early on a back 2 3/4, landed on my face in a scorpion, then dislocated and fractured my c4 & c5. subsequent stay in the hospital and paralyzed for 10 days with a halo (the hardware where they drill 4 holes in your head 2 to the front and 2 to the rear) in traction. on the 11th day everything came back. then an additional 10 months of physical therapy while wearing a halo without the holes in your head. in that day, surgery was not performed unless they felt you were going to die. todays treatment, with steroid injections directly to the site and induced hypothermia, makes my injury more treatable with better and faster results.

so, it was this that triggered my response: "I have not learned any new tricks since I was a child I am now an adult."

i thoroughly read these things that are posted. and i have no idea how old aerialriver is, suffice, she says she is an adult and hasn't learned anything new since she was a child.

therefore, if aerialriver does not train actively, is now an adult and some time has passed since she last trained and competed, then i see no purpose in learning back/stomach landings and exposing ones self to a serious and potentially catastrophic injury.

and to amerigym, use your head when you post. take all things in to consideration about who the posters are and what they say. and what you posted would be good information for those coaches or athletes that are actively training and competing.

i have gone on the record in saying that adults should not do advanced level gymnastics. a full on trampoline or off a tumbl trak does not qualify.

back 1 3/4 and front 1 3/4 qualifies in my book. and i think i'm qualified enough given my past as a former trampolinist-double mini-tumbling-synchro trampoline -usta athlete- in my youth and someone that suffered a serious and life threatening injury. i am also a coach of gymnastics that uses trampoline on a daily basis to train certain skills. and i'm not going to list my experience as i have already. trust is a valuable commodity on a site such as this.

p.s. to aerialriver: a back 1 1/2 would be to the top of your head. please don't do this either.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Thanks for the good replies so far. I'm not upset with Dunno either, he has given me great advice in the past, I just wasn't sure he knew that these were common practices in t&t. Also I messed up my post, got to thinking about it last night. It is a 1 and 3/4 front flip that I am doing but it is a 1 and 1/2 back flip I am doing into a pullover. Sorry for the confusion. I haven;t started working on back 3/4 too much as my front drop is horrible, I can do it if I need to as in a crash type situation and do it to advoid injury but I don't much like it . I would like to be able to do a 3/4 back to a cody tuck but I can't get any height off the stomach drop. Anyways rambling, sorry about the misinformation.

perfect of example of reading thoroughly: "I haven;t started working on back 3/4 too much as my front drop is horrible."

so, aerialriver is going backwards working on a "back 3/4" yet is landing in a "front drop" which connotes stomach landing. this is not possible. and i will not assume what aerialriver is stating until she clarifies.

and to aerialriver: please don't do that back 1 1/2...

point? well...i think you might see it.

 

[gymdog]

i am concerned about spinal cord injuries. very much so. as you stated going backwards above, you must mean a back 1 1/4 to the back and then a pull over. a back 1 3/4 would be to the stomach.

Yeah, I was going to say if I did a back 1 3/4 I probably actually would die. I've been doing double backs for years but I would never intentionally open out of a back flip onto any surface. I am not sure it's worth it. Back 1 1/4 is a totally different story.

Do you have someone who can slide a mat in when you're landing something? The other main option for air awareness is to use the mini tramp into the pit before doing it on trampoline. But if you don't have a qualified spotter who can spot double back on trampoline (the spotter MUST be qualified - don't let someone go "oh yeah, I think I can, probably"), then I think it's pretty hard to learn as an adult. I would do a double back on floor before I'd do it and land on trampoline...I find controlling it really difficult and I've never really learned how. I'm sure with qualified instruction I could do it easily, but lacking qualified instruction and good equipment as well (nothing inground or even surrounded by mats), I don't really think I could teach myself to land a double back on trampoline. And I can do it to a landing surface, but it's different to me.

I do agree for all tumbling there should be trampoline instruction. Unfortunately most of the all artistic gyms I've seen just don't have the trampoline equipment or instruction.

 

[ameragym]

Glad you appreciate my post, dunno. Please stay on topic. Submit that you are confrontational and snobbish. Your resume is uncalled for. Your self boasting is solicitous. What counts is your contribution to the topic according to your experience. With so much experience dunno, your score should not be zero.

Watch a lot of slow motion video of divers and trampolinists, aerialriver. Study exactly what they are doing with their heads and eyes. Watch for head position in relation to the arms and degree of rotation. You will see them spotting and looking again every time they come around. Starting point is very important. Starting point sets the timing for the whole maneuver. Make sure you are not leading with the head or that you are out of alignment with the upper body to the lower body. Or that your arms are not fully in position before you start.

 

[gymdog]

Please stay on topic.

There's nothing I know of in the rules that says no one can have a dissenting opinion or answer a thread by telling someone something is not a good idea. It would be off topic if dunno posted in this thread about advice on how to get a giant on bars, but replying to something in the thread is not off topic. Your first paragraph is no more on topic than anything dunno has posted. In fact I find his contribution to this particular thread useful because people need to be aware of what injuries can occur. Gymnastics can be very safe if we follow some basic guidelines and experience has shown it is a bad idea to do certain things (like 1 3/4 or 2 3/4 to the stomach). Even multiple front flips can be quite dangerous and there have been several instances of serious injury and even death resulting from multiple forward somersaults done into pits, on or off trampolines, etc. Care needs to be taken to minimize the risks involved. If someone is mainly training themselves they should be aware of the risks to multiple somersaults and make sure they have an experience spotter and appropriate equipment. I would never advise someone to learn a double back without an experienced spotter and instructor for the skill. And that doesn't include someone who can just do it. I can do a double back, but I have never learned to coach it except in very controlled circumstances (for example going into the pit off of something) and I would never attempt to spot it any other way until someone qualified could show me.

 

[ameragym]

gymdog, I find your defense in dunno's name offensive. Dunno did not include any advice answering the query. His response is off topic. His cup is not half full if mine as you imply is half empty at the beginning. Frankly gymdog, you have become part of the problem and not the solution. I concur with aerialriver as stated that this has been steered into " a big stupid useless debate..." thanks to dunno and you, gymdog.

Use a prop such as a doll or model of the human body aerialriver and simulate the flipping and twisting actions of any flip you wish to learn. The visual image of head and eye direction from studying the model will train your mind to look for the floor at the proper moments. The doll will maintain alignment and you can simulate perfect position to gain insight as to where you should be seeing where you are in the air. Keep the prop next to the apparatus and every time you get down simulate the maneuver to visualize where and at what moment you should be spotting the trampoline bed. Then get back up there and look for it. Its like planning a road trip. Map out your path and then execute it.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

oh man...is chuckie back again?

and if only i could tell you what i do in the job i have during the day. is it oaky to call someone an idiot on this site??

and aerialriver, you know my intentions mean well. and everyone knows i'm not a fan of adult gymnastics to a certain degree of difficulty. sometimes i feel like rodney dangerfield...but i do know of what i speak.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Okay sorry if I got my terms confused. I am doing a complete back somersault all the way around and landing on my back then doing a pullover out of it. I am sorry you feel adults cannot do high level gymnastics, that is your personal opinion. I am not excessively old. I am in my twenties and competed as a level 8 gymnast when I was a teen. I got into t&t about a year and a half ago and I am psychically fit, I train about 8-10 hours a week, sometimes more around competition time. I do progressions and train at a gym with a coach. I competed all last year at a high level and did very well. I am sorry I sounded confusing by saying I had not trained any new tricks since I was a kid. What I meant was that all of the tricks up until now (mostly anyways) were tricks I had as a kid and regained. Anyways all things aside I would like advice on how to become more aware of where you are at in a flip or twist in the air, my coaches are great but I was looking for different perspectives from others. I am not looking to state a debate over if adults should do gym or not. Respectfully if you cannot stay on topic or help answer my question please don't bother replying.

thanks for clarifying. i though i was staying on topic and point given the confusion in information. and now i can reply.

does your gym have a bungee system over a pit or trampoline? works much better than a spotting belt and you're able to work on your own until someone has to remove you from the rig.

you might remember that i, along with my wife and coaching staff, coach level 10's and elites. men and women. they do a very high level of gymnastics on the trampoline. it's part of their every day training.

you don't say what level of athletes reside in the gym which you train in. if your gym does not have a bungee, and you would like to know more, let me know and i can get the info to you. it would benefit you in a safe manner to learn the skills you have spoken of. and the system is inexpensive.

 

[bogwoppit]

Crap , this guy needs to get a life. YOu know when you are told to leave a party andf you come back 6 times to crash it you must be pretty desperate for attention! Off a-banning I will go!