Parents Looking at Other Gyms - Is This Typical?

[Seeker]

No, I wouldn’t say that’s normal either — esp not for compulsory level gymnasts. I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that; what a horrible way for those gym owners to react to what is a pretty normal practice.

 

[flippin out]

It is common practice in our area for owners of potential gyms to give a “courtesy ” call to your previous gym. If you show up and do a trial at another gym that gym will call your current gym to let them
Know and ask if there were any issues/outstanding debts or other problems with you as a customer.

Gyms look at like good business sense. They want to know if there are any issues prior to taking you on, AND long after your kid grows up they need to maintain a good relationship with surrounding gyms.

This being said, some gyms will wait to call current gym until after you have signed with them.....those owners/coaches are a gem and I respect them all the more for their understanding of how hard it is to even contemplate a move.

The ONLY time the courtesy call does not happen is when the current and potential gym hate each other so have no wish to maintain any working relationship with them.

 

[Ms.Pak-Man]

I don’t think that is normal, but happened to me as a kid in another sport. I wish the owner had realized that having a child’s best interest at heart is not punishing them for their parents actions. I was gutted by this as a kid and felt immense guilt, which now as an adult I realize that they acted unprofessionally by taking out their anger on me, instead of talking the decision through with my parents.

Now, I have left a gym twice between 2 gymnasts. Both times I made sure to not burn bridges, talking with them beforehand and after. Our current gym encourages anyone looking for a gym change to look, they are secure in the service and training they provide, realizing that it’s not always the best fit, or sometimes you may need to try sonewhere else to know if it is the best fit. You are welcome back. In every gym I know of around us, you are always welcome back if it doesn’t work out.

 

[Madden3]

It is common practice in our area for owners of potential gyms to give a “courtesy ” call to your previous gym. If you show up and do a trial at another gym that gym will call your current gym to let them
Know and ask if there were any issues/outstanding debts or other problems with you as a customer.

Gyms look at like good business sense. They want to know if there are any issues prior to taking you on, AND long after your kid grows up they need to maintain a good relationship with surrounding gyms.

This being said, some gyms will wait to call current gym until after you have signed with them.....those owners/coaches are a gem and I respect them all the more for their understanding of how hard it is to even contemplate a move.

The ONLY time the courtesy call does not happen is when the current and potential gym hate each other so have no wish to maintain any working relationship with them.

I understand a courtesy call between gyms, actually. I can see how that would be a good business practice.

What I do not get is why looking at or having a try out at another gym gets your kid kicked out of your old one. Is that also considered a good business practice? I am serious I really am wondering if I am missing something.

 

[mls529]

But why is the courtesy call a good business practice, especially before any contracts or agreements have been signed? This seems like an opportunity for one gym to blackball a gymnast. Sometimes if there is an issue at a gym, it isn't the gymnast, but the gym or coach who has the issue. Isn't that what would happen at Twistars/Geddert -- the gymnasts couldn't leave because of the "courtesy call" from another gym, even if there is a simply inquiry at a new gym, which basically prevented girls from looking elsewhere.

I can understand once a gymnast accepts a place on the team in the new gym, but what if someone sincerely wants to check out other places -- just to get a sense of other gym cultures or philosophies -- without the original gym knowing? And like the OP, maybe someone is just checking out a gym that is closer to home -- something very reasonable. I feel like if a gymnasts looks elsewhere, but ultimately decides to stay in the original gym, the coaches will take it out on the kid, and she will forever be known as a flight-risk. Sorry, but I just really don't like this practice and I don't find it necessary at all.

 

[flippin out]

I understand a courtesy call between gyms, actually. I can see how that would be a good business practice.

What I do not get is why looking at or having a try out at another gym gets your kid kicked out of your old one. Is that also considered a good business practice? I am serious I really am wondering if I am missing something.

But why is the courtesy call a good business practice, especially before any contracts or agreements have been signed? This seems like an opportunity for one gym to blackball a gymnast. Sometimes if there is an issue at a gym, it isn't the gymnast, but the gym or coach who has the issue. Isn't that what would happen at Twistars/Geddert -- the gymnasts couldn't leave because of the "courtesy call" from another gym, even if there is a simply inquiry at a new gym, which basically prevented girls from looking elsewhere.

I can understand once a gymnast accepts a place on the team in the new gym, but what if someone sincerely wants to check out other places -- just to get a sense of other gym cultures or philosophies -- without the original gym knowing? And like the OP, maybe someone is just checking out a gym that is closer to home -- something very reasonable. I feel like if a gymnasts looks elsewhere, but ultimately decides to stay in the original gym, the coaches will take it out on the kid, and she will forever be known as a flight-risk. Sorry, but I just really don't like this practice and I don't find it necessary at all.

Which is why I said that I respect and appreciate the owners/coaches who wait to give the courtesy call AFTER the parents have signed on to their program. It is difficult enough to even think about looking at other programs that may be a better fit. It is way too easy to be blacklisted and then find yourself kicked out of current gym when owners call before you’ve even left the parking lot....and I have heard of that happening very close to me. I find that unnecessary and hurtful and have no respect for those that do that.

Lesson here is —- if you want to gather information about other programs and you are not ready to walk out of current gym (and maybe not even sure that you ever will....that’s why your looking, to decide)—- CALL, DO NOT GIVE ANY PERSONAL/IDENTIFYING INFORMATION. If you give your name, information that would identify your kid (my daughter is a 11yr old level 10, she placed 1st at state.....not hard to figure out who you are and what gym), then you had better be ready for what happens if they call your current gym and out you.

BTW— it’s not always the owner of new gym that outs you. If you show up for a trial and another parent at that gym recognizes you/your kid they may just live gossip and call someone they happen to know at your current gym. I’ve seen that happen too!

 

[John]

Changing gyms is very stressful. I know it's hard to decide to leave a gym. I personally think when you begin looking you know it's time to make a change.

The idea of mom or dad visiting gyms and watching practice at new gyms works nicely. When the parents have one or two gyms they like its time to talk with the gymnast. When the family agrees its time to try only do so knowing the consequences of trying new gyms may be harsh, have the try out.

When I made DD chose a new gym the gym she picked based her acceptance on her, nothing else no calls.

Having been there 8 months now we have seen 4 new girls join the gym, two mid season. The owner keeps a athlete trying out with him for one week. Then he has a long talk with parents and athlete expressing his expectations and things he sees need changing.

Take away, there are good gyms and good people out there finding them can be hard.

 

[Gymmommy71]

Not normal around me - I can say that my daughter has at least done a trail at six different gyms in the area (some she’s tried multiple times years later) over her 9+ years in the sport, and has been a member of the team at 3... Yes the gyms she was at found out eventually every time that she tried elsewhere, but none of them behaved as you described about it - thank god!

I will say that gym switching is pretty common in my area and it’s very, very rare for a gymnast to spend their entire “career” at the same gym - so if gyms behaved like those in the OPs post, they would severely limit their customer base - or they at least would have a very hard time fielding an optional team.

 

[Madden3]

But why is the courtesy call a good business practice, especially before any contracts or agreements have been signed? This seems like an opportunity for one gym to blackball a gymnast. Sometimes if there is an issue at a gym, it isn't the gymnast, but the gym or coach who has the issue. Isn't that what would happen at Twistars/Geddert -- the gymnasts couldn't leave because of the "courtesy call" from another gym, even if there is a simply inquiry at a new gym, which basically prevented girls from looking elsewhere.

I can understand once a gymnast accepts a place on the team in the new gym, but what if someone sincerely wants to check out other places -- just to get a sense of other gym cultures or philosophies -- without the original gym knowing? And like the OP, maybe someone is just checking out a gym that is closer to home -- something very reasonable. I feel like if a gymnasts looks elsewhere, but ultimately decides to stay in the original gym, the coaches will take it out on the kid, and she will forever be known as a flight-risk. Sorry, but I just really don't like this practice and I don't find it necessary at all.

My thought was it was good business practice in this sense: Say a gymnast is at Gym A and wants to get a try out at Gym B. At some point- probably after the try out but before accepting the gymnast onto the team- Gym B calls Gym A to let them know they are going to issue an invite to team to the kid. And this way, they might learn more about what they are getting. For example, if gym A says "Thanks for letting me know. BTW they have not paid tuition in 6 months and I am going to have to send them to collections" or "Just so you know, the kid is a pleasure to coach, but the dad comes to meets and screams at his kid if she does not place" then that is information that Gym B might want to know. So, the call is good practice for Gym B. Such a call is also a courtesy to Gym A because if Gym A does not want to lose a customer, this heads up gives Gym A a fair chance to contact the family and ask if there is something they (the gym) could be doing better, or what changes might convince them to stay. So that is what I meant by a courtesy call. As far as should gyms do this, while I certainly see how such a practice might be mishandled, I cannot see anything inherently wrong with one business talking to another about a customer.

Now this is of course assuming both gyms are run by rational business people and not abusive nuts.

Blackballing a gymnast for seeking to train at a different gym appears to me to be something only an abusive, controlling gym would do. So I am still wondering if there is something I am missing about why a gym would do this that might be legitimate. If not, I am suggesting that if a gym does this, there is something very wrong with that gym and if other gyms collude with them in blackballing/terrorizing/entrapping gymnasts, then there is something wrong with them as well. I think it is possible and in fact likely that gyms in close proximity to an abusive gym might pick up some of the same abusive practices so I can see how this could be a cluster problem.

Now of course, there is the ideal and there is the reality. If the reality is that gyms in your area (or in any case, your gym) toss out gymnasts for trying out another gym, then in order to protect yourself and your gymnast, then it makes sense that you would want to be super stealthy and sneak around in order to check out other gyms. This is obviously not ideal, but it may be the reality at this moment where you are.

What I am talking about is not so much as how to navigate right now the unpleasant reality, but how to eventually promote the ideal of changing the culture. To change a culture we must first recognize the signs that the culture needs changing. Hyper controlling gyms that kick out or blackball a gymnast for leaving or even thinking about leaving are, IMO a major red flag that something is rotten at that gym.

 

[Gymmommy71]

I don’t really see that stuff about gym B calling gym A for information a “courtesy” - to me it sounds more like a gym B ratting on the gymnast and giving gym A an opportunity to blackball them. IMO the small chance that a gymnast looking to leave hasn’t paid tuition in 6 months (gym A should deal w/ that better) or has a crazy parent (like that’s the little kids fault?, and no other gyms have crazy parents??) is not worth breaking someone’s trust like that.

Fear of this type of collusion between gym owners is what keeps gymnasts in unhappy and/or abusive training situations, or forces them out of the sport. Doesn't everyone remember the threads about Geddert’s abused gymnasts being afraid/unable to leave cause they know they’d be blackballed? This is it right here, but at a younger age - telling a little level 3 “she’s not welcome on gym premises ever again” cause she tried a class at another gym? What a vindictive owner that person must be... The kid is lucky she doesn’t have to be on that person’s team anymore, but I feel bad for the kids who still are and may want to leave too but are afraid to look after what happened to OPs kid (so it serves to intimidate the existing customers too!).

I personally think the USAG should put guidelines/rules in place to prevent blackballing like this. After all the abuse that has been allowed to go on in our sport towards gymnasts, the pendulum needs to swing to a situation where the gymnasts and parents have more power - at least for a while.

And in the situation where a family hasn’t paid tuition in 6 months, that’s gym A’s fault for letting them attend practice for months 2-6... So they’ll kick them out of the gym for trying another gym, but not cause they don’t pay?? I’m sorry - that’s on them for not managing their business well.

 

[gymmomx2]

I don't get the "good business argument".

If I'm gym A (current gym), why would I want to give a competitor information about a bad customer? Unless I were looking out for Gym B's best interest (why????), I would just be glad that my bad customer is going to become someone else's problem!

If I'm gym B (new gym), why would I want to give the opportunity for Gym A to keep their customer? The customer has already decided to move, why would I make it easier for a competitor to change the customer's mind?

I could maybe see a reason for the courtesy call if the gym owners are long-time friends but that is usually not the case around here. Businesses look out for their own interests first, as they should.

 

[Madden3]

Ok, clearly my entire argument is being misconstrued.

I really am not arguing that gyms should contact each other. I was only explaining why it makes sense to me that some might -this is in response to another post that said it was considered good business practice. To me it does make sense to have a good faith relationship with one's competitors. If that includes talking to them about customers, then it does, but it does not have to. It would depend on the business. My area is customer service- mostly in small to midsize businesses that are part of a local community (not online or international for example) and every successful business of that type I ever worked at maintained a friendly rivalry with competitors rather than a cut throat one.

I gave egregious examples because I assumed they would be seen as almost comically egregious, not because they are somehow a real life situation where a gym might blackball a gymnast. That would be up to the gym of course. If you know your competitors, you will probably have a good idea if the other gym is exaggerating or not, or if a gymnast might have some reason to leave that gym that the gym might not mention.

As far as whose "fault" it would be if a kid ended up gymless IN such egregious circumstances as my examples- obviously, in that case it would be the parent's fault. I would argue if you don't want to have your kid blackballed by a gym, the first step is to not be a crazy parent who does not pay their bills. Because good luck keeping business owners/coaches from talking to each other in such cases especially.

My point is that should a gym wish to contact the other for whatever reason, there is way to do so without blackballing/threatening/tossing out a gymnast and leaving them without a gym. And that is what should be normal practice.

 

[John]

@Madden3 I see your point and it makes sense to me. I watch DD's HC/Owner at meets. He visits each coach and speaks to them. I know he has some of their gymnasts currently at his gym. I know he tries to keep an open friendly rivalry, sometimes that doesn't work as with all humans sometimes we fail. Working beam at our home meet I witnessed another team's HC/Owner walk over to him and say my 7's beat yours 7's.

 

[Gymmommy71]

I wonder if these gyms that ban ex customers from their premises host meets? And if so, if the gymnast’s new gym attends their meet do they give them a hard time about bringing the “banned gymnast”? Do they have a list of banned parents/kids that the admissions people aren’t allowed to let in at the door to watch? I just wonder if they go to that extreme...

 

[Taxidriver]

I just can’t get my head around gyms that blackball ex gymnasts.
At my dd gym I’ve known a few to leave over the years for other gyms and we bump into them at competitions and the coaches including the HC always say hello and are polite.
I know of one girl who’s parents informed the gym she would be leaving at the end of the month to switch to a different gym and she continued to train at our gym and on her last day the coaches let the girls have a bit of fun time as it was her last session.
I think most girls that have left for another gym have done so because they have found the commute too much and are moving to gyms closer to home several actually returned to the gyms they went to before my dd gym.

 

[Madden3]

I wonder if these gyms that ban ex customers from their premises host meets? And if so, if the gymnast’s new gym attends their meet do they give them a hard time about bringing the “banned gymnast”? Do they have a list of banned parents/kids that the admissions people aren’t allowed to let in at the door to watch? I just wonder if they go to that extreme...

I was wondering that too.

 

[raenndrops]

So glad we dont have to deal with that drama in our area.
There is a girl (L8, 12 years old) that has competed for 2 different gyms in our district in the past 2 years. Before that, she was at a "club" gym, but had gotten injured and when she healed, she wanted less pressure so she chose to compete Y... but she did NOT go to the Y where her sister had competed at. She went to another one. And after the season was over, she chose to switch to one a little farther away (but with better equipment).

 

[e'smum]

no, not around here. one of the moms (a good friend of mine) tried out at our gym, and she's very outspoken so her current gym knew she was trying out (lol). she ultimately stayed with her current gym b/c her dd didn't want to leave. then, the upper lvl coach left and there was no coach for lvls 6-9 so she ended up at our gym anyway.

i think most gyms around my area either courtesy call or ask that you tell your gym that you are trying out. but there's none of the you are kicked out of the gym starting now business. what if you had left something in the gym by accident??? sheesh.

 

[MILgymFAM]

no, not around here. one of the moms (a good friend of mine) tried out at our gym, and she's very outspoken so her current gym knew she was trying out (lol). she ultimately stayed with her current gym b/c her dd didn't want to leave. then, the upper lvl coach left and there was no coach for lvls 6-9 so she ended up at our gym anyway.

i think most gyms around my area either courtesy call or ask that you tell your gym that you are trying out. but there's none of the you are kicked out of the gym starting now business. what if you had left something in the gym by accident??? sheesh.

When my DD left the last artistic gym she switched from, she left her ankle weights, a spare leo, and a couple other things behind. They were gone for good and written off as the part of the price of leaving. We specifically left the day after a meet because that meant she had her grips with her and not at the gym.

 

[JessSyd]

Surely the only reason for punishing customers for looking around is to scare them from doing so? That is fairly toxic, and I would worry about the other guiding principles of a gym like that.

In a good business the only sensible response, if you are going to respond at all, would be 'hey, we heard you were looking around. We would hate to lose you so if there is anything we can do to make your time here more fun, let us know'. There may not be as no business can be all things for all customers. But there is nothing to lose and possibly something to gain from keeping things friendly.

My daughter has left two gyms. Once for logistical reasons and once to change programs. Both times the response from the gym we were leaving was 'good luck and if things change, we would love to have you back'.

There is also the fact that staff are mobile between gyms too. They all know each other, many of them competed together as kids and (based on observing at meets) there seems to be camaraderie between them, not the sort of toxic malignancy that you would expect to come from a culture where changing gyms is a betrayal rather than just a consumer decision.