Managing the Membership of Sports Organization: The Legalities of Banning a Member

[AmandaLynn]

why is it that this gym in Colorado that is owned by a convicted *** offender from the state of washington,and has a coach employed there who is on the USAG banned membership list and the gym is still OPEN?! what is wrong with these parents...that they all know NOW what is going on and has been for quite some time and it has been EXPOSED...that a certain newspaper article has not notified the community there...that the gym closed down due to no one showing up to attend where no tuitions had been paid and that they have simply and silently have gone out of business. ponder that for awhile...

I'm trying to figure out how this convicted *** ofender was allowed to open a gymnastics business... I mean, aren't there clauses for convicted ofends that they can not live within x distance of a school and all that? Why would opening a business that caters to young chidren be different? There's nothing that USAG can do about it at this point (other than require that all clubs that send gymnasts to their meets be a "member club"), but you would think that there would be something legally that he would be in violation of by opening a gym catering to kids. I don't understand how this one happened and it seems like maybe it's something that we need to look into in other professions that deal with children as well, not just gymnastics.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Pittsburghscribe, we'll meet and talk someday about your area of law...

what you say is correct also. it troubles me that an overt reaction could take place by a 'gov't agency' in order to keep vermin not only away from kids and our industry but away from civil courts also and trespass on our rights at the same time. that's the problem. review my previous posts in regard to the insurance companies. and depending what state you are in, you may not be able to purchase "church insurance" as additional coverage.

you know how it goes in the work place...if you misstep as an employer or NGB in bringing vermin to roost on this issue, your exposure will be more than you can personally/financially be able to manage. so then, the problem isn't rooted in what you know before the vermin is hired. the law is clear...you can look the convicted vermin straight in the face and tell him that you are unhireable because of the atrocious acts that you perpetrated on little girls, and the law will be on your side on the civil side in the event the vermin sues you and even if the fact of that vermins acts were stated in a group of people. it's what takes place after the vermin is exposed, how your state's civil statutes apply and then how to insulate yourself in a civil lawsuit. in the best scenario, and you are aware that there are unscrupulous attorneys, a judge would rule that a case of this nature has no merit and kicks it. but if you are in a state with unclear and broad statutes, and a liberal bench to boot, the judge may let it go forward for a time. and let's say the issue/case gets as far as discovery. and the club owner has no insurance because a sexual abuse claim is an "exclusion" to the policy. or that an innocent club owner was not aware that this type of secondary coverage even existed.

now let's talk about what it costs to get as far as discovery. and we know it depends on the hourly and the decisions that a single practitioner or firm must make as to how to mitigate said case without breaking the bank of the client/defendant. or what resources are used that they will most likely never bill for. so, conservatively speaking? 40-50 grand to get to that stage of a case. club owners and NGB's just don't have that kind of money laying around.

these are the some of the daunting issues and business decisions that face club owners and NGB's. therefore Counselor, lets review the Colorado case once more.

1. the club owner is a convicted felon from the state of washington for sexual abuse, and some charges that were aggravated in that state. there was nothing in place after he served his obligations to the state of washington and he fulfilled his parole agreement to move to another state to open a gym school. and the insurance can't ask because it is a privacy issue and they currently don't have a policy that could pass muster in court to deny him said insurance so they can't ask in the 1st place. remember, insurance companies answer to the state insurance regulators and their attorneys as to how they conduct business in any respective state.

2. this *** offender/club owner then hires someone just like himself. went thru a criminal proceeding 30 years ago with a whole different set of laws on the books in california which at that time that were naive, at woeful at best as to how to to prosecute those crimes. and we know what is admissable. and what might not be. and at that time, the victims and their attorneys had even less teeth and rights than they have today. this guy too leaves his state and goes with his buddy and joins him in colorado. a subsequent investigation based on preponderance now finds this coach on the banned list. and he has never challenged his loss of membership and privileges. USAG's right to ban was challenged in the waples case. you will also find him on the banned list. USAG prevailed and spent an untold amount of money to do so.

3. the club owner knows he can't apply for membership with USAG because he knows now if his case isn't sealed, that his background check will ground him. Yet USAG controls his discipline (T&T) also. and because he knows that he can't apply for professional membership, he knows too that he can't receve the privilege to become a USAG Club Member because he has to sign a LEGAL document that states HE HAS INSURANCE and THAT HE WILL NOT EMPLOY ANY PERSON ON THE USAG BANNED MEMBERSHIP LIST. so then, essentially this club is off the radar and off the map...until

4. the vermin and vermin have someone make the national team in their discipline. there was another coach in their employ that attended the competitions with their athletes. THIS COACH is in good standing with the NGB. And he too has signed a professional and legal document with the NGB that he will abide and comply with all ethical and professional standards of the NGB, the welfare policy mission statement and its membership. BUT...he has not signed the legal document presented to the club owner to become a USAG club member because he is not an owner.

5. this club goes on to receive "national team training center" status due to their accomplishment of placing an athlete on the national team. the 2nd vermin coach goes on to receive "coach of year". and ostensibly more than 1 parent knows the backgrounds of these 2 coaches.

so then counselor, do you agree or disagree that USAG should be held accountable or responsible for an injustice or 'crack' in the ethical floor that a coach (2) has fallen in where our laws have essentially protected their rights and allowed this owner and coach to continue? my answer is NO.

and you also know that courts seldom recognize 2nd and 3rd party complainants. mostly due to the hearsay rule. the courts DO recognize the victim notwithstanding any other information that is lacking merit. and you are then aware that these are very difficult and comlex to prosecute.

so then, in my mind that leaves only 1 question with an answer that is gleaned from all the factual information listed above. and one that i hope the majority of you are asking yourselves. why?...why are the parents of this colorado gym paying for their children to be in the company of not 1, but 2 anti-Christs with a mental disease that may only be cured thru agressive medical intervention and treatment. why? and how could USAG have been responsible for preventing the scenario in the 1st place. can you see the conundrum? our constitution and its laws allowed these 2 vermin to carry on their lives in the pursuit of happiness. and to the detriment of ALL others including our industry. it is an insult that carries a resentment that NO ONE could do anything toprevent this. not even the parents. frustration at a minimum.

and you forgot a small unbeknownst to most item. the ARDC. the attorney can lose his/her privileges temporarily or possibly permanently. and the medical boards that have the same disciplinary rights that affect Doctors. yet, both of these professions jump states and continue to practice. and the attorney can go on to consult as well as the doctor if they are found to be a hazard to their respective profession. and if it were due to a *** crime, and given enough time to rehabiltate their portfolio, they could come in to our profession and coach children.

so counselor, if you are a coach and intimately involved in our sport, you know what's out there and what is silently spoken about amongst your peers and colleagues. i'm certain as i am breathing that you have asked, or overheard, the same question that i have posited above. why?.....

 

[Maitland]

I think USAG (and really, any youth sports organization) should require fingerprint checks on all employees of any gym that attends sanctioned meets or camps. Yes, there is an expense to it, but it would be well worth it. Our school district even requires parents who are chaperoning on over-night trips to be fingerprinted. This would at least catch anyone who was convicted. I did a Megan's Law search and none of the individuals who have been in the news recently (there are three of them, but I think I cannot mention any names) show up in the database. I think that means one of two things: they are not going to be in a fingerprint database because there was no conviction or they would be in the fingerprint database but they are not required to register as a *** offender. Even with that, sports organizations should check fingerprints and also should check Megan's Law records. It could prevent some from falling through the cracks.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i told you that this is complicated.

1. a public school teacher in a certain state gets busted for said same with middle school boys. he serves his time and fulfills his obligation to the state and society. it takes 10 years. his case is sealed and he is free to go. this state fingerprinted. another 10 years go by.

2. he had moved to another state 800 miles away. while he is employed at a grocery store, he goes back to school to re-certify as a teacher. he had his name legally changed in the new state. he gets certified and begins teaching at a high school near where he lives.

3. it's parent teacher night at the high school. the 9th grade freshman is accompanied by his mom and dad. lo and behold...the dad can't take his eyes off the teachers face. he starts to get sick and excuses himself. he comes back and stares for a few more minutes. actually shakes the teachers hand so not to give off any flares.

4. this dad spends the next 2 months personally investigating the past of the teacher. and you guessed right. the very teacher who had molested him in the other state when he was in the 7th grade.

5. the teacher was temporarily suspended with pay pending the outcome of the school districts investigation. the teacher never showed at his hearing. he was terminated.

there is so much case law that everyone does NOT know about. it's insidious. and i'm exhausted just thinking about all the ways you could head this problem off at the pass. and then i get there and there is no water.....

later...

 

[Deleted member D3987]

update:

i have just received word (but not verification publicly) that coach #2, in my scenario in the colorado gym upthread, has just been fired. the owner is a convicted *** offender. the coach was not convicted but is on the banned list.

now i know everyone is thinking the obvious...who is going to fire the owner?!

maybe he'll fire himself after Worlds...

and something i forgot upthread when i posted the following:

5. this club goes on to receive "national team training center" status due to their accomplishment of placing an athlete on the national team. the 2nd vermin coach goes on to receive "coach of year". and ostensibly more than 1 parent knows the backgrounds of these 2 coaches.

imagine the surprise when the NGB learned that this region awarded coach #2 the coach of the year award. and that this gym had someone make the national team from this gym. apparently nobody knew. not even the people in that region responsible for him receiving this prestigious award. that's where were at today. and the downfall of our country tomorrow. nobody reads anymore...not even Technique magazine or finding that 'button' that names the list from the NGB website. pitiful...just pitiful. you agree?

 

[bogwoppit]

I wondered what that was about. So they are a team? Ugh.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

yep...birds of a feather...

and for the benefit of the kids...

flock together.

 

[Chocoholic]

Dunno, I agree that there's not much that USAG could have done about the Colorado scenario. I'm not faulting them there. And I realize that no regulations or laws, no matter how strict, will eradicate predators. Parents have to be their children's first line of defense. My point was simply that USAG should change their rules to require that gyms become members if they want to send any gymnasts to USAG competitions. And then they can ban the members if their conduct is egregious and that sanction will have more teeth. Wouldn't that at least tighten the accountability a bit?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

absolutely, Pittsburghscribe. we're on the same page more than you might know. absolutely would implement another level of deterrence.

and now confirmation. take an antacid before you read this. i had to take my own pulse after reading this.

Coach accused of abuse is fired by Colorado gym | boger, gymnastics, artsports - News - The Orange County Register.

 

[AmandaLynn]

So what? They fired Boger, but not until the pressure from the media made it impossible not to. And the gym owner is supposedly (I have not researched this myself yet) a registered sex offender himself. If this is true, then any parent that keeps their child in this gym is either completely brainwashed or just not very bright.

Can someone explain the US laws on sex offenders working with children a bit better for me? What exactly are they allowed to do and what are they not allowed to do? Does it depend on the type of offense that they are convicted of? Is there a time limit of how long these rules and regulations are supposed to be enforced? Or are they indefinite?

 

[Deanna]

This whole thing and the thought of this kind of thing..just turns my stomach.
I was always under the impression that a convicted xxx offender was not allowed around children. Not allowed to be within so many hundreds of feet of schools, parks..ect. By law. So, anything to do with gymnastics rules, laws, by-laws ect aside..just going on state laws (which I believe they are all the same on this one) why would someone who was a CONVICTED sex offender (not just accused..ect) but convicted be allowed by the LAW to OWN a gym? And then to employ someone who was accused of it also. Where was the law in all this?
Maybe Im just confused on this one..but it seems like more than just the USAG has things to re-evaluate on this situation

 

[Chocoholic]

Certainly owning a gym is not a good fit for a convicted sex offender, and that should be restricted, if at all possible, by the gymnastic federations' memberships rules; however, there is no way to keep a sex offender from being near children. Kids are everywhere and people who serve their time need to be able to hold down a job and function in society. The only alternative is to keep them locked up forever and I don't think we're going to see that happen anytime soon, especially for first offenders and for less invasive types of contact. [Although it kills me that convicted rapists and murderers can get out earlier than kids who sell crack once or twice]

In some cities, sex offenders are prohibited from living within a certain distance of schools, but I don't think that's been shown to have much of an impact. Most pedophiles don't grab a kid from a busy school play yard after all, they lure a child who knows them and trusts them. Best way to protect your children is to talk with them early and often and not just about stranger danger. Kids are much more likely to be sexually abused by family and friends. Sad, but true.

 

[Deanna]

Just saw this, not so sure how true it is. The wording is funny. Talks about one taking over managment (the one that has been with the USAG), and changing everything. Doesnt mention who the new owner is. But does say the "former owner and director" will no longer be on the floor at the gym. But doesnt mention him leaving completly. The gym is supposed to go USAG membership and background check coaches now.
Link Removed

 

[Deanna]

pittsburghscribe, i am aware children are everywhere..lol. But, what I was getting at is..i thought it was against the law for someone who was a convicted *** offender to work in any job where children came to them. IE..teacher, coach, daycare..ect. (and that they were not even allowed within a certain distance of schools, playgrounds, parks, sports fields). This was my impression of the law. And right now trying to find anything online about it isnt easy as everything is flooded with whats going with this gym mentioned..(and there are several others too)

 

[Chocoholic]

pittsburghscribe, i am aware children are everywhere..lol.

I was just joking about that. But as regards to the law, those restrictions have to be passed by the local government (and several cities do have the school, playground restrictions) I believe or imposed by the employer or union (for example, restrictions on teachers). I don't think there are any laws that impose a broad prohibition on convicted sex offenders from any place or job that involves children and that's probably because it would be so hard to define. But maybe there are some states that do . . .

 

[Sarah'sMom]

Some of these posts are very very long and I'm tired. So, I apologize if I am repeating something someone already posted. But personally, I think it is a good idea to close the loophole which allows nonmember clubs to have teams that compete for an organization just because they have professional members and only those members get screened. However, I do not think this is all that should be done. I think there should be a way for members of the public to check to make sure a gym is claiming all of its coaches. One gym could join as a member and agree to screen all its employees, but then not do so and without some transparency - parents being able to look up the coaches individually to see if the coaches are members of the national organization, there certainly could be another loophole. That being said, you will never ever be able to ferret out all possible dishonesty -but you can make it harder. Just my two cents.

 

[Deanna]

Which I fully agree..there should be everything possible done to prevent this sort of thing from happening. Close all loop-holes..and the loop-holes loop-holes. But my point being if there is not a law in effect (which for some reason I always thought there was) there needs to be. This is something that needs to be taken care of beyond the gymnastics world itself. And the gymnastcs world needs to have some sort of governing force backing it...so that if things go coocoo there is more action to be taken. They can make all the "rules" and laws and by-laws..but they need someone alot higher up on the food chain (persay) to back them.
Thas just how I feel. I could be completly nuts though. I wouldnt doubt it..bahahaha

 

[Deleted member D3987]

i am happy to report that the owner of the colorado gym, a convicted sex offender, has stepped down from the day to day operations. apparently he is going to sell to the only other coach there and this coach is in good standing with USAG. but for the life of me, i can't understand him coaching there all this time with those 2 in attendance. beyond my comprehension really...

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Certainly owning a gym is not a good fit for a convicted sex offender, and that should be restricted, if at all possible, by the gymnastic federations' memberships rules; however, there is no way to keep a sex offender from being near children. Kids are everywhere and people who serve their time need to be able to hold down a job and function in society. The only alternative is to keep them locked up forever and I don't think we're going to see that happen anytime soon, especially for first offenders and for less invasive types of contact. [Although it kills me that convicted rapists and murderers can get out earlier than kids who sell crack once or twice]


In some cities, sex offenders are prohibited from living within a certain distance of schools, but I don't think that's been shown to have much of an impact. Most pedophiles don't grab a kid from a busy school play yard after all, they lure a child who knows them and trusts them. Best way to protect your children is to talk with them early and often and not just about stranger danger. Kids are much more likely to be sexually abused by family and friends. Sad, but true.

hey choc, i just chuckled a bit. certainly sex offenders would ALL love to own gyms because IT IS a perfect fit for them.

 

[Chocoholic]

hey choc, i just chuckled a bit. certainly sex offenders would ALL love to own gyms because IT IS a perfect fit for them.

I guess you're right Dunno when you put it that way. Thanks for the lovely thoughts as I get ready to drive my daughter to practice!