MAG motivating/discipline

[Iwannabemargo]

absolutely, your syntax is not quite right, like someone who is using language they are not quite familiar with, hence wondering if it was your second language.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

it makes it harder to fully decipher your meaning

 

[Iwannabemargo]

it makes it harder to fully decipher your meaning

 

[Alyssa S.]

alyssa-
I am not sure you understand...the coach IS talking to the parents, asking for advice, and working with us to figure it out. That is why I know so mcuh about the situation.

ETA: I do think, however much he works with us, in the gym, at that moment, he IS in charge. He does have to have that respect and authority. That is not the place for a parent to intervene....

Coach asking parents for advice and input? Then, I would have confidence and faith in their ability to work through it. Has anyone discussed holding a conference where the gymnasts themselves identify the issues AND ask the gymnasts themselves to determine the consequences of bad and good behaviors--to get their buy-in and commitment to the solutions?

 

[Alyssa S.]

it makes it harder to fully decipher your meaning

A split infinitive in your repeated post?? I thought you said you were excellent at English? Maybe some humility is appropriate?

Meaning: there is probably a lot that you do not understand. And that's okay. We're in this together.

 

[skschlag]

Coach asking parents for advice and input? Then, I would have confidence and faith in their ability to work through it. Has anyone discussed holding a conference where the gymnasts themselves identify the issues AND ask the gymnasts themselves to determine the consequences of bad and good behaviors--to get their buy-in and commitment to the solutions?

Not right now. RIght now they need to be focused on season. Maybe at the end of season. Problem is, we are dealing with an age of boy that is always right, so all the adults around them are wrong. been dealing with that all morning because we dared to ask d to brush his teeth. IMHO, the boys need to realize that they should be listening and honestly, not being little jerks half the time....

 

[Iwannabemargo]

no, never claimed to be excellent, my degrees are not in English language but in two languages

double posting would be the computer, not me

and me guv, I is 'orribly 'umble

 

[munchkin3]

Coaches and gym owners could benefit greatly by identifying parents that are fully capable of making serious contributions. The fact that parents feel their hands tied is palpable and unfortunate.

I believe there is a market for future gyms that LEARN to synergize habitually--not compromise--with parents. This is a major cultural/organizational weakness founded in false dichotomies, such as "a parent should not try to be a coach; it's our job to....it's their job to.... You wouldn't tell your doctor what to do....Are you a gymnastics coach?!"

Coaches and teachers who commit to continuous improvement/learning--even from parents--are superior teachers. Those who guard against perceived encroachment by parents are limited by their own prejudice (e.g. pre-judging that parental input is bad).

Instead of challenging parents, coaches should: (1) lead parents and themselves ALWAYS to ask what is best in THIS particular situation; (2) presume that the best solutions are almost always the result of creative/new understandings (not merely prior experience), which must flow from input and feedback, especially from parents; and, (3) demonstrate that your strength from 'understanding another' does NOT mean 'agreement'--instead, your effort to 'understand' their input is part of a search for new creative solutions to determine what is BEST for this particular situation.

Easier said than done.......
This is not about parents vs. coaches.
It's about dealing with changing teenage BOYS, which are very different from teenage GIRLS.....that's all.
I guess your posts are over my head, again.....

 

[skschlag]

changing teenage boys, with a new young coach, and a loss of older teenage boys to guide them. You are exactly spot-on Munchkin

 

[profmom]

Yes, the lack of older boys is absolutely critical. Same deal with us -- last year we had an older L10 who would threaten to break the younger bumpkins if they didn't knock it off. It was a joke of course but also a little serious. A few years back, the tradition was that if the young guys working out with the older optionals got too obnoxious, the older optionals would literally throw them into the pit. That kind of discipline is raucous and silly, of course, but it was done in a loving, big brothery, but absolutely non-negotiable way to socialize them into returning to the fold of humanity and recognizing that it wasn't their right to waste other people's time. And it gave them something to look forward to -- getting to the point of being the senior enforcers who get to draw the line on the silliness and encourage the work/team ethic. I've observed the older girls doing the same kind of work with young advanced skill girls in their workout groups (in a very different/less physical way, of course). It would be a cultural anthropologist's dream to study . . .

 

[munchkin3]

Profmom, what I think is critical in your point is that the older boys have already 'changed' and in most cases, realize how silly 13/14/15 can act......the simple fact that they are there, and can tell them, 'hey, cut it out, or I'll knock you' in a brotherly way IS important......
When we moved gyms, DS had NO idea how important it was to have an older crew.....he acts a little less ridiculous in front of them.....
Where it differs from the girls, is you can have very advanced 10 yo girls, and they kind of get more respect even from the older girls.....not so with the boys. The men, are men, and they get more respect from being plain older.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

easiest way to sort out a pen of young cockerels is to stick a mature bird in there (it wont let me write the word)

 

[munchkin3]

LOLLLOOOOLLOLOLL.......no need to write them!!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Thanks guys. The coach really is trying. He does have clear limits. I have told him that boys might have to leave if they are not there to practice. HE is young, and I know it will come. But the 3 months with no coach has given them quite the "hive" mentality!

no excuse. coach's have died and their gyms took months to find a coach. losing a coach is no excuse.

 

[momto2js]

At our gym, there is a fair bit of screwing around but most all of it comes from STANDING AROUND far to much. Having something to do would solve about 80 percent of our issues. I wish coach would understand, boys do not stand still for more than 30 seconds EVER!!

 

[skschlag]

no excuse. coach's have died and their gyms took months to find a coach. losing a coach is no excuse.

You are right...it isn't an excuse. But it is what happened unfortunately. And it is probably more attributable to losing the "role models" who graduated or quit than the coach. ANd I am not excusing them....lol. IMO they need to buck up and work hard...

 

[profmom]

Some coaches/authority figures also are better at coming in and imposing a tight ship immediately too. I'm sure everyone has had both the experience of the substitute teacher who has only to look at the class for them to become silent and attentive -- and the teacher who couldn't manage the class to save her/his life. My mom was a sub for several years, and she developed the reputation as The One who was to be called when a teacher went out in one of the nearly impossible junior high classes at a nearby fairly poor school. One class in particular had a teacher out on maternity leave, and the seventh graders chased off three subs before my mom came in. One literally walked out of the classroom mid-day crying.

It's a delicate balance developing the right rapport with a group so that they will be intrinsically motivated to work hard and get better, but enjoy themselves while they are doing it. I certainly did not have that capacity in my first few years in an analogous environment.

 

[ZJsMom]

That it might take some time to establish the optimal working relationship seems normal to me. It really depends on the situation and the relationship the guys had with the last coach. I've seem some tough coaching transitions. In those cases, sometimes the new coach is like a step-parent. At first the kids have an attitude like "you can't take old coach's place, old coach never made us do that." It's normal for kids to test boundaries. I think if the parents are supportive of the coach and he stays the course, it should work itself out soon enough.

 

[gracyomalley]

I don't know if this is in any way helpful but for my DD and both of my DSs this season is a bit of a wash because of coaching transitions. NOT in life, but certainly not the best year for gymnastic progression. The girls team has a strong HC but with the other significant gym in town closing, the girls team is over 60 kids now, and since DD started there in June there have been 4 junior coaches who left, and 2 new ones. (as in, there were more coaches when there were only about 30 kids on team than now....). For the boys the coach who took over after their head coach's sudden departure, which was highly emotionally charged for the boys, was prior to that a rec coach for girls, but did a great job. He is committed to this season only, and although I'd love it if he stayed, I'm not holding my breath. My boys love him, and work hard for him - but my younger boy (10, L6) doesn't with the high school kid who coaches the youngers (he is sometimes in that group based upon numbers). My older boy is 14 - the oldest on the team is 15. They work very hard for the coach when in small group. Older boy gets very frustrated when the advanced group has to work with the L4/5 boys - most of whom are 8-10. There have never been any older boys on our team (well, not for the 5 years my boys have been there. I imagine it would be great!!)

I have come to this realization, which may or may not apply here - unless we want to move to a big city in a big gym area, and really dedicate to gymnastics, its really up to the kids to get whatever they can out of it. Some years they will rise to that expectation, some they will, well, chat alot...I set the bar high with my kids regarding respectful behavior, good team work, and kindness, but whether they go the extra mile (or extra 100 push ups, or attempts at new skill, etc) is up to them - a good coach will bring that out in many kids, and I am hopeful that my kids will continue to have the chance to work with great coaches, but it will not be the expectation - as its not the reality here. I seem to remember that the OP had limited choices during their sons coaching transitions, so I assume some of what I say may apply. Perhaps I am being pessimistic - and I'll admit that with teens and all the emotional garbage involved I often wish we could go back to the old days of life is simple, I love gym and sure, coach I'll do that new skill, move up, work harder, push, whatever...but I think its part of the journey of parenting. I think all we can do is hold our kids accountable for their attitudes and behavior at practice in our own ways.