Parents Moving up vs repeating

[sjm2b3]

I know there are a lot of threads on this, but my question is a little different. DD competed level 4 in the fall and is now working level 5 skills. Move-ups will be dependent on skills. She has her cartwheel on beam, squat on, just got a kip but it is certainly not pretty. My question isn't on whether she should move up based on her skill level, it's more based on your thoughts about placing/performing well. She competed level 4 as a 6 year old so would be 7 for next year. She would probably do very well if she repeated level 4. Do you feel like this sets kids up to 'expect' to win or do well? At such young ages, shouldn't it be more about skills and doing what they can do vs getting used to getting first place? Or, am I wrong, and the confidence would do her wonders for the future. Is it better for them to get a taste of success for the future, or is it better for them to just think that learning the skills is the success (eg, if she competed level 5 I'm sure she'd struggle to get an award, but who cares??). She was happy to get medals and trophies in her level 4 season, but honestly I think she's happier now working new tricks. However, if there is truly a benefit in growing her confidence by repeating then maybe I am off track. I'd love to hear from those who repeated and did well, did the kids get big egos, almost overconfident?

 

[wallinbl]

In our case, repeating showed DD that she is actually really good. Simply telling her that she was really young compared to the other girls, so she should be proud of how well she did considering the age gap never really sank in. The added confidence has been really good (though it also came with some arrogance that has to be beaten back every so often).

The other thing that happened is that she became really crisp in her skills. Not just at the repeated level, but since then skills have been crisp really quickly. I'd guess this is a sign that she had gotten a little ahead of where she should have been.

All that said, a few years after repeating, she's getting ready to skip a level, so she'll be where she would have been, but I doubt she'd be as confident and as good as she is now.

 

[lhmom]

I am another who was good with repeating. Like wallinbi's daughter, DD had a successful 2nd yr repeating level 4. More importantly, in that 2nd yr we saw a huge improvement in her form and lines which I feel carried over to this year at a new level. And I don't think last year "set her up" in expecting to win this year. She has understood that it's a new level with new skills and she adjusted her goals accordingly. I really enjoy seeing the confidence that she has and I think it had everything to do with repeating. However, her gym uptrained during her 2nd yr. at 4 and she has been up training during her level 5 season. So she had the benefit of a successful 2nd yr but was still learning new things.

 

[thefellowsmom]

My dd is repeating four this year and I totally agree with wallinbl. She just won her first 1st AA last weekend and her confidence is soaring. The gap (size and maturity in our case) was always knocking away at her confidence. She was really starting to believe that she wasn't ever going to be as good as the other girls.

Now she sees how great she can be and has really kicked it into gear at the gym. It's like a switch flipped and she has matured in a big way. Now she is focused and a little machine at practice. The tightness factor is also huge. It has clicked for her that gymnastics is easier and she will get better faster if she is tight and straight and pointy. I think repeating is definitely been the right thing for her.

Now, the flip side is that she is starting to get frustrated. Don't get me wrong, she loves doing well, but she has the long term vision in her head and she is ready to move on. The bulk of our meet season will be done in a few weeks, and luckily our gym doesn't take much time away from uptraining, so she is really looking forward to putting all this new found confidence to work on new skills as soon as possible.

Additional benefits are that it gave her time for her fear to subside (she had some pretty bad back tumbling fear going on last year) and she has finally grown a bit and found her power. Her speed and power are light years ahead of where she was and she is now able to vault over the table and not just at the lowest setting, jump to the high bar with adequate swing (too much she says) and get enough power out of her back handspring to continue tumbling correctly, just to name a few things.

Each kid is totally different and there are definitely those kids who move quickly and just get it and those that no matter if you repeat or not aren't going to get there, but in general looking across the gym the girls that have repeated at some point are looking more confident, progressing quickly and performing well at meets, although a few of them are a bit disappointed with not placing as well at meets.

For some others there is quite a bit of building frustration as they continue to struggle because moving on meant they didn't get the chance to really work on all those details. There is something to be said for being able to focus on the details and not just landing the skill. As you move through the levels the importance of tight and straight and well executed becomes more and more important and impacts their score more as well.

I was skeptical and my daughter was disappointed when we found out she would be repeating, but ultimately it was right for her and I now have a deeper level of trust with her coaches because I see how right they were.

Ultimately, I would say go along with what her coach says is the right thing to do. It can be hard sometimes as a parent to give over to them (believe me I get that), but as long as you are in a good program they really do know what's best when it comes to gymnastics.

 

[gymgal]

This really is dependent on what type of child your dd is and how well she did this past season. Did she just squeak by, finishing low in the ranks or was she in the middle of the pack? For my dd, as long as she is competent in her skills and is middle of the pack, she is happy. She has been at the top several times too but mostly middle is where she lands and she is fine with it because its the time in the gym training that she loves and doesn't care much about the competition. Other girls thrive on being on that podium every meet.

Your dd is young and repeating a level certainly won't hurt her (except maybe boredom if not up training). If she struggles with form and confidence, giving her another year in the same level would certainly help and may carry over to higher levels. But if she had a good, confident level 4 season, and has her skills for the next level ( and the coaches agree), I would let her try the next level. She can always drop back down if she is not successful.

Sent from my AT100 using ChalkBucket mobile app

 

[Gymmommy71]

My opinion is L5 is always the level to repeat, not 4...the skills in L5 (i.e. the new L4) are used forever, where the ones on L4 are just temporary skills on the way to the "real skills" of L5 . Long term I think gymnastically she'd be better off going to L5 and having a mediocre year, and then repeating L5 the year after that and being amazing. This would give her the most time working on and perfecting those fundamental skills, and if she didn't win everything this year, it won't bug her too much to not win everything next year too...and it's actually kind of hard to win everything your first year of L5 even if you were a really good L4 (so its not like repeating L4 would guarantee success in L5 next year).

IMO, any kid capable of physically doing the L5 bar routine should go to L5 - how is she about jumping to the high bar? If she can do that, I vote L5 all the way...

 

[Aussie_coach]

It depends a lot on how the coach works. If she was to repeat level 4 would she be doing the same things as a new level 4. During comp season new level 4's usually need a lot of time going over and over the routine ind focusing on core skills, as many have never competed seriously before.

but a repeat level 4 needs much less time on routines and plenty of time for skill development, like working her kips every day.

 

[gardenia01]

I agree with gymgal, the answer depends a lot on how she did this past season. The child finishing near the top, even if not first, is already likely pretty confident. On the other hand, if she struggled in Level 4 finishing near the bottom, then a repeat of Level 4 could be just the boost of confidence that she needs to help her sail through the next levels. As long as your gym uptrains, I don't know that there is much difference between repeating 4 and repeating 5 (or whatever the new numbers will be). My dd was a 6 yo Level 4. She had an okay season, scoring mostly 35s and usually right in the middle of the pack. She got all her Level 5 skills and did 5 as a 7 year old. Again, she did pretty well but was not close to winning any meet. She repeated Level 5 and had a great year, winning a number of meets. On the other hand, her friend and teammate repeated Level 4, then went to Level 5. They are both now Level 8s and I cannot see that it made much difference that one repeated 4 and the other 5.

Never underestimate your child's desire to do well at a meet. I used to think my dd cared more about skills (and of course they love uptraining) than winning, but I have found that winning is a big deal to her - she just didn't express it well when she was younger. In any event, back to the original question, I don't think that the confidence earned from a second year of Level 4 makes most children "expect to win." It does give them the confidence that they are good gymnasts and that they have a good opportunity to place well at any meet they attend. I do think that carries forward - thinking you are good is half the battle, particularly on certain events (beam comes to mind)!

 

[2gymmies]

I don't think bars is the only gatekeeper to level 5 - can she get over the table?!?! The vault table is a beast for the young, little ones. My dd just turned 8 and has gotten mid 9's on the level 5 bar routine including jumping to the high bar on fig, but for her the vault has been the hardest event to be competitive on. I think knowing what it takes to win is a valuable lesson, which is different from expecting to win.

 

[gymmomtoo]

I also want to caution that repeating a level doesn't necessarily mean they'll start winning meets. Not saying this is your daughter of course, but some girls repeat a level a few times and only inch up in scores. As to whether your daughter will expect to do well if she repeats, I would guess that depends on how it's presented to her by you and her coaches. Is she going to have the chance to polish her skills and upgrade or will they be telling her this is her chance to win?

In the interest of full disclosure ;-), neither of my daughters (one has graduated now) repeated levels in compulsories--both had the skills to move up and so they did. Neither shined as compulsories, but both did great once they got to level 7. With their personalities they got the confidence from knowing their coaches felt they were ready to move up.

 

[sjm2b3]

Great feedback from everyone. Thank you! As far as how she did, she did get a first place and some seconds, some others, it was really dependent on how they did age groups (did less well when it was 6-8 year old). I really do not think she would uptrain if she stays at level 4.. I think she would be in a group with some repeaters and some new. The ones who will probably repeat are the ones who struggled and didn't compete all events last year. They did not uptrain at all during the season, they started working after the last meet in December on level 5 skills. Getting over the table will be a huge hurdle. I honestly not think she has tried. I think they are only doing front handsprings over mats.

I shouldn't have worded it so strongly (expect to win). I have a DS too, he is repeating level 5. H won almost everything in the first meet of the season, and then seemed somewhat disappointed in third at the next meet. This was the first time he has responded like that (really cared). I just feel like DD is so young I don't want her to focus on places yet. I suppose there's no way to prevent it though.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

 

[gymgal]

Great feedback from everyone. Thank you! As far as how she did, she did get a first place and some seconds, some others, it was really dependent on how they did age groups (did less well when it was 6-8 year old). I really do not think she would uptrain if she stays at level 4.. I think she would be in a group with some repeaters and some new. The ones who will probably repeat are the ones who struggled and didn't compete all events last year. They did not uptrain at all during the season, they started working after the last meet in December on level 5 skills. Getting over the table will be a huge hurdle. I honestly not think she has tried. I think they are only doing front handsprings over mats.

I shouldn't have worded it so strongly (expect to win). I have a DS too, he is repeating level 5. H won almost everything in the first meet of the season, and then seemed somewhat disappointed in third at the next meet. This was the first time he has responded like that (really cared). I just feel like DD is so young I don't want her to focus on places yet. I suppose there's no way to prevent it though.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

given this information, I definitely wouldn't choose to repeat if the coaches are ok with her moving on to the next level. She has plenty of time to get the vault over the table. She is already doing the progression for it.

 

[LizzieLac]

As a parent that is part of a gym where most level 5s and 6s are repeating this year, I will tell you there are longer term developmental benefts associated with repeating. This was a hard concept for me and several other parent at our gym to "get." The level 5s that are repeating had all of their level 6 skills, but they were not strong on them. This would mean spending the season trying to improve these skills, not so much for the score, but because if these skills weren't strong enough how would they get to level 7 the next year.

Repeating has allowed them to focus their workouts on uptraining. Workouts are not focused on training skills they are competing, they are focused on new skills and getting stronger. In competition there is no worry about "will gymnast make this skill" which you often see when a kid moves up without really having "control" of the skills they must compete.

So, my advice is to look at repeating as a means to create a stronger gymnast down the road and less about how the gymnast will score 37 and win all the time. Scoring well and winning is a byproduct. This has greatly reduced competition stress and the whole mindset has shifted allowing, these girls to work level 7 skills in practice. If they had moved up the focus would be on getting that clear hip to requirement. Now, we work clear hips but we also can work giants because the pressure of getting that clear hip to requirement for competitiong is not there. Next year, when they compete the clear hip, it will as if they are repeating that level since we trained it the prior year. Make sense? It took me a while to come to this understanding - it is a shift in thinking away from the scores/placement/medals and more on the developmental process.

Good luck with whatever you choose!

 

[SignHere]

It's hard to say. I have two DDs and no one has ever asked me for my input, LOL !

However, last year my younger DD was. Level 4. She and another girl were pretty close score wise and place wise all season. Their birthdays are about 2 months apart. Both got their kips last summer, mine at the beginning, the other girl at the end. My DD moved up to Level 5 and has been competing level 5. I am not going to lie, it's a tough age group in our region, she places 5 or 6 usually in AA. Her best event is bars, and has gotten a 2nd on bars. She is scoring 35.5 in AA and 9.5 on bars. The other girls' mom decided to have her held back in level 4 another year- she thought her DD would be at a disadvantage having gotten her kip towards the end of summer. She is scoring 37s and 38 in level 4 and pretty much winning AA at every meet.

So, clearly this child really benefitted from repeating Level 4, but, I think my DD is okay with doing Level 5. I think she'd like more trophies, but she is having fun working on both bars.

 

[Gymmommy71]

I am not a fan of repeating just to win more medals...I think repeating should be done when you were weak on one or two events your first year at that level and you need the second year to prove/establish competence, or you are missing skills needed for the next level. I think if you consistently scored above a 34 in the previous level, and you have the skills to be average or better at the next level, you should go to the higher level.

 

[sjm2b3]

Good advice and bottom line seems to be there are just pros and cons with either choice. Obviously her coaches will decide, I really just wanted some thoughts to keep in my head in case it would have been better for her to stay back....I may have tried to talk with them. We shall see what happens. Thanks!

 

[GymGirl's Mom]

So much can change between now and then. She may grow two inches, gain 5 pounds, become a vaulter, become an amazing tumbler. I would just continue to send her to practice and see how it all works itself out. Most coaches won't compete a kid in a level that they feel they would struggle in (I did say most...) that said if it's getting close to next competition season and she doesn't seem ready it's ok to have a conference and see what they are thinking and put your own two cents in about how you feel.

 

[Gymmomwv]

I wonder what everyone thinks of moving up to L6 (new L5) when mobility score is just being met at current L5? Scores this year have been 29 up to 31.975.

 

[Quadqueen]

I wonder what everyone thinks of moving up to L6 (new L5) when mobility score is just being met at current L5? Scores this year have been 29 up to 31.975.

would your gym consider moving a gymnast up who is scoring in this range? Our gym would not move up a kid who is scoring that low, even though they technically can per USAG. Are you asking because you have some kind of control over it as a parent, or are you just curious because you think the gym is considering a move up?

 

[Gymmomwv]

Well I've received a few thoughts from dd's coaches already. The first was that they def want to move her up. I was thinking, what?! Are you serious? ... The thought was that next year's level will stress dance and that is her strength.