NCAA NCAA athletes who don't compete

[Flicfliclay]

The ruling is in about two weeks right? So we will soon find out, although I don't think we will technically find out what this really will do until a year or two down the road. Hopefully there will be a thread on here to discuss!

 

[JBS]

Hopefully there will be a thread on here to discuss!

Sure will!

 

[cmg]

I guess I have very mixed feelings about this. I miss the good old days of being a good to great athlete that works hard, could make a college team, get the college team experience, contribute to the team from a competitive stand point, and create lasting friendships. Perhaps they were not a scholarship athlete, but they were able to contribute to the team. It seems to me that most if not all college sports with this ruling will be unable to recruit the diamond in the rough.

What I have heard through the grape vine is that at our local Big 12 track team is that if you are not in a position as a freshman to immediately score for the team, you will not be able to get on the team any more. Now there are many colleges that have D2 and D3 track and cross country teams that athletes can move to. But in gymnastics there are 18 D3 teams and only a handful of D2 teams. D3 sports used to be the place where athletes could go to school to get the college sports experience but not have to be an elite/top 5% type athlete. I feel like this ruling will now eliminate this opportunity for a lot of high school athletes and college sports will be this out of reach/impossible dream for many high school athletes in all sports. I was one of those athletes many many years ago for track and field/cross country, and my daughter is now one of those athletes at a D3 school doing gymnastics. In a couple of years all the D1 gymnasts who don't get on a team will move to D2 and D3 and D3 will just become what D1 was say 5 years ago.

To me this also will continue to separate the kids whose parents can afford to send them to the best teams/coaches, pay for privates, home school so they can practice 30 hours per week, etc. from the parents who can not afford a lot of extra practice/coaching. Let's face it club sports for any sport these days is very expensive between paying for coaching, uniforms, and travel it all adds up. Now college sports scholarships are going to be harder to get at least at the D1 level. Most D3 schools do have a lot a academic scholarships that a good student can qualify for, but I know too many parents that really push their kids to get that D1 sport scholarship. I hope parents understand the reality of high school athletes being able to achieve that goal once the new ruling is fulling in effect.

Sorry for the ramble, just my two cents, but I feel like D1 sports is just going to become an elite athlete only type of opportunity and only a few people really fit that category. I am glad my daughter got on a team last year and will have the opportunity she always dreamed about because in a couple of years I don't think she would have made it and she is having a great experience right now.

 

[bookworm]

I guess I have very mixed feelings about this. I miss the good old days of being a good to great athlete that works hard, could make a college team, get the college team experience, contribute to the team from a competitive stand point, and create lasting friendships. Perhaps they were not a scholarship athlete, but they were able to contribute to the team. It seems to me that most if not all college sports with this ruling will be unable to recruit the diamond in the rough.

What I have heard through the grape vine is that at our local Big 12 track team is that if you are not in a position as a freshman to immediately score for the team, you will not be able to get on the team any more. Now there are many colleges that have D2 and D3 track and cross country teams that athletes can move to. But in gymnastics there are 18 D3 teams and only a handful of D2 teams. D3 sports used to be the place where athletes could go to school to get the college sports experience but not have to be an elite/top 5% type athlete. I feel like this ruling will now eliminate this opportunity for a lot of high school athletes and college sports will be this out of reach/impossible dream for many high school athletes in all sports. I was one of those athletes many many years ago for track and field/cross country, and my daughter is now one of those athletes at a D3 school doing gymnastics. In a couple of years all the D1 gymnasts who don't get on a team will move to D2 and D3 and D3 will just become what D1 was say 5 years ago.

To me this also will continue to separate the kids whose parents can afford to send them to the best teams/coaches, pay for privates, home school so they can practice 30 hours per week, etc. from the parents who can not afford a lot of extra practice/coaching. Let's face it club sports for any sport these days is very expensive between paying for coaching, uniforms, and travel it all adds up. Now college sports scholarships are going to be harder to get at least at the D1 level. Most D3 schools do have a lot a academic scholarships that a good student can qualify for, but I know too many parents that really push their kids to get that D1 sport scholarship. I hope parents understand the reality of high school athletes being able to achieve that goal once the new ruling is fulling in effect.

Sorry for the ramble, just my two cents, but I feel like D1 sports is just going to become an elite athlete only type of opportunity and only a few people really fit that category. I am glad my daughter got on a team last year and will have the opportunity she always dreamed about because in a couple of years I don't think she would have made it and she is having a great experience right now.

I don’t think all that will necessarily be true … and i had 2 level 10s who had some great coaches, we never homeschooled and mostly did 20-24 hours a week (one gym we were at was 30-36), no privates … and both were recruited and signed by D1 teams … so it CAN be done on a normal path.

What i am seeing that seems really out there to me is all the push with lower levels and Xcel to do multiple privates acweek and uptrain and get Instagram pages from the age of 7! And most talk of doing college gymnastics … and the child is a 12 yo level 3 or similar so i don’t know what fuels this …. Most with these IG pages won’t compete D1 but they have it in their heads that the kid has to be a brand ambassador to get recruited… it seems just odd.

 

[cmg]

I don’t think all that will necessarily be true … and i had 2 level 10s who had some great coaches, we never homeschooled and mostly did 20-24 hours a week (one gym we were at was 30-36), no privates … and both were recruited and signed by D1 teams … so it CAN be done on a normal path.

What i am seeing that seems really out there to me is all the push with lower levels and Xcel to do multiple privates acweek and uptrain and get Instagram pages from the age of 7! And most talk of doing college gymnastics … and the child is a 12 yo level 3 or similar so i don’t know what fuels this …. Most with these IG pages won’t compete D1 but they have it in their heads that the kid has to be a brand ambassador to get recruited… it seems just odd.

I guess what I am thinking is that D1 will become more competitive. So it might just be that most athletes are at the elite level to get onto a D1 team. Most gymnasts are not at the elite level which in my humble opinion, once you have gone elite even for two to three years you are basically a professional gymnasts which many parents can not afford. Below is an article that I think describes the impact that I was trying to get to.

'Creating havoc everywhere' — House-NCAA settlement causing crunch for Olympic sports as roster limits come into focus

The new roster limits are eliminating thousands of Division I roster spots — mostly for football and Olympic sports. Here's why, and what's next.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[GymTwins]

Could "funding all roster spots" mean if they are on the roster than they get a scholarship but if the program can choose to roster less than the max, like 12 spots if that is all they have a budget for.

I would suspect that in the near future everything that isn't revenue generating ie not football will be on the chopping block. In my state there are major budget shortfalls and axing athletics is an easy move for university administrations.

wishing there was a dislike button

 

[JBS]

wishing there was a dislike button

There is... just hover over like or hold down like...

 

[Lobster]

I'm curious about NCAA teams where there are certain athletes that consistently don't make the roster for meets. Do they still retain their scholarships?

This thread took a turn, but I wanted to reply to the original question.

Every athlete when going through the recruiting process decides what is important to them. Some girls want to be on a championship team and train in that environment even if it means never making a line up or making limited line ups due to the depth. Being a gymnast at (insert top tier team) is their goal.

Being the 7th/8th/9th gymnast on an event for LSU as the contend for a national championship is what might make one athlete happy vs being the star AA on a team that will never advance out of regionals. It also does not mean that athlete is a walk on or will be in danger of losing their scholarship. Teams need depth and that is an extremely important role. Athletes are recruited for that purpose and just as valuable to the team.

I must also add that making a line up is incredibly difficult. There might be 10+ athletes per event that are capable of scoring all about the same.

 

[GymnastMomX2]

Just also wanted to quickly add that we had a couple gymnasts from my daughters gym both commit to top D1 schools as walk ons. Neither made a single lineup their freshman year. They are both sophomores this year and have been consistently competing one event all year, and both had top scores(9.9+) on their event at regionals last weekend. Either one could have gone to a lower ranked school and competed more, but for them being at the bigger name school was more important, and it’s exciting to see their hard work paying off!

 

[GymDadWA]

Judge delays NCAA settlement over roster limits

The judge overseeing the $2.8 billion antitrust lawsuit settlement delayed final approval of the plan Wednesday until it is modified to address concerns about roster limits.

www.espn.com

"Roster limits could signal the end of the walk-on athlete in college sports and, as Utah freshman swimmer Gannon Flynn noted in his testimony as an objector, imperil smaller sports programs that feed the U.S. Olympic teams. It is not clear how many roster spots across hundreds of schools will vanish under House, though it it is estimated to be in the thousands."

 

[Flicfliclay]

Judge delays NCAA settlement over roster limits

The judge overseeing the $2.8 billion antitrust lawsuit settlement delayed final approval of the plan Wednesday until it is modified to address concerns about roster limits.

www.espn.com

"Roster limits could signal the end of the walk-on athlete in college sports and, as Utah freshman swimmer Gannon Flynn noted in his testimony as an objector, imperil smaller sports programs that feed the U.S. Olympic teams. It is not clear how many roster spots across hundreds of schools will vanish under House, though it it is estimated to be in the thousands."

And so we wait... again... Basically they will grandfather in the current athletes is my guess or did i miss a different proposal besides that one?

 

[gym_dad32608]

Ya, looks like the roster cap will be phased in, so I imagine over the next 4 years athletes currently on the roster will be allowed to not count against cap? Still, does this affect future recruits in some way? I guess they would also have to change the scholarship plans too?

 

[GymnastMomX2]

And so we wait... again... Basically they will grandfather in the current athletes is my guess or did i miss a different proposal besides that one?

That makes a sense to me, but coaches across all sports have already cut athletes because of this! What a mess.

 

[gym_dad32608]

That makes a sense to me, but coaches across all sports have already cut athletes because of this! What a mess.

Yep, I think that was the NCAA argument - that coaches will and have already made moves through the normal course of roster management and that it is an issue that kinda resolves itself. And it really is only a potentially small subset of student athletes that it impacts. And its SOOOOO hard to get all the conferences and schools together to agree.....

But this judge, rightfully so, is obviously very sensitive to the athletes, probably because they really cannot advocate as much as the NCAA since they are so distributed. So even if its a handful of athletes that will be negatively impacted, she is erring on the side of caution.

 

[Flicfliclay]

Ya, looks like the roster cap will be phased in, so I imagine over the next 4 years athletes currently on the roster will be allowed to not count against cap? Still, does this affect future recruits in some way? I guess they would also have to change the scholarship plans too?

So you think that they will do it that way as far as not counting toward the roster cap? or do you think they will not let them add more athletes to their roster if they still have more than what is set? What if say for girls that are class of 2026 ( high school ) still in the recruiting process and a school she wanted to go to already has 20 set on their roster.. Do you think that they would be able to recruit that kid if they phase in the roster limit? I guess that is where i am getting confused?

 

[bookworm]

I think the biggest thing that screwed up recruiting was the “extra COVID years” … some weren’t even affected but got extra years, messing up the pipeline of years down the road.

 

[gym_dad32608]

So you think that they will do it that way as far as not counting toward the roster cap? or do you think they will not let them add more athletes to their roster if they still have more than what is set? What if say for girls that are class of 2026 ( high school ) still in the recruiting process and a school she wanted to go to already has 20 set on their roster.. Do you think that they would be able to recruit that kid if they phase in the roster limit? I guess that is where i am getting confused?

Short answer, and I am only giving my non-insider opinion, I think schools might be willing to take a 2026 now that would put them over the cap. Of course it would probably be a case by case type situation, with that school. They may only be over the roster cap for an extra year or two. Unkown what the scholarship situation that they would support during this grandfather phase. But ultimately the programs have to continue to bring in talent and if it could give them a slight advantage they probably would do it. No-one is going to take a class of 10 but if they have 4 right now and maybe they really like a 2026, I could see them taking 5 even if it puts their roster at 21. But who knows what the NCAA will come back with?!

 

[Flicfliclay]

I think the biggest thing that screwed up recruiting was the “extra COVID years” … some weren’t even affected but got extra years, messing up the pipeline of years down the road.

so very true!!!

 

[Flicfliclay]

Short answer, and I am only giving my non-insider opinion, I think schools might be willing to take a 2026 now that would put them over the cap. Of course it would probably be a case by case type situation, with that school. They may only be over the roster cap for an extra year or two. Unkown what the scholarship situation that they would support during this grandfather phase. But ultimately the programs have to continue to bring in talent and if it could give them a slight advantage they probably would do it. No-one is going to take a class of 10 but if they have 4 right now and maybe they really like a 2026, I could see them taking 5 even if it puts their roster at 21. But who knows what the NCAA will come back with?!

Yeah, I find that them prolonging it more and more makes things very difficult for these schools. All the sports tend to have a different recruiting process for each sport. It makes it hard for them to not cut kids assuming these new rules are supposed to take effect July 1!!