NCAA NCAA Women's Regionals

[NYGymfamily]

Vault scores in Washington are confusing me a bit.. Feeling like Torrez should have been 9.75 ish rather than 9.85. Could just be me though. Thoughts?

 

[bookworm]

Vault scores in Washington are confusing me a bit.. Feeling like Torrez should have been 9.75 ish rather than 9.85. Could just be me though. Thoughts?

Unless she sits it down, no judge is giving Torrez (or anyone in that line up) a 9.75 on their vault...not that you're wrong, it just won't happen.

 

[bookworm]

Oklahoma and Missouri (by the skin of their teeth) go through....198.45 was certainly an overscore for Oklahoma but they definitely were the best team out there tonight and Mizzou was the second best. As usual, Helen Hu's beam routine was a treat...hard to believe that she also took last year off from gymnastics and was backpacking somewhere.

 

[littlegirlsdream]

There's a range in difficulty of routines (E pass vs Front full-front lay) but the scoring does not reflect it.....when my daughter was competing NCAA , at least one pass had to be a double back. They downgraded vault to a YFull being a 9.95 start so I think they need to overhaul the code for floor too...like if you have a 2 pass routine, one needs to be an E pass or it has a 9.95 SV...and if you have 3 passes, it can be a 10.0 SV but there can't be level 8 passes or you would get an "up to the level " deduction because by the time you get to NCAA, your passes should be college level...and maybe like skating does, bonus for doing passes with double salto in the last 30 seconds of the routine versus Oklahoma doing their 2 passes in the first 20 seconds and the rest of the routine is dancing and leaping and rolling on the floor...KJ uses the code to her advantage but those routines are boring as heck.

I agree with this! I don’t know the rules of college gymnastics well but It certainly does not seem that difficulty is rewarded at all. Why bother with harder skills or more passes when the scores are so tight! You can’t afford to risk even a .05! I know most of these athletes can and have competed way harder skills then the ones they do in college. It would be nice to see them reward harder skills done well vs “easier” skills done perfectly

 

[gym_dad32608]

I agree with this! I don’t know the rules of college gymnastics well but It certainly does not seem that difficulty is rewarded at all. Why bother with harder skills or more passes when the scores are so tight! You can’t afford to risk even a .05! I know most of these athletes can and have competed way harder skills then the ones they do in college. It would be nice to see them reward harder skills done well vs “easier” skills done perfectly

In general, I agree with the discussion regarding what makes a valid 2 versus 3 pass routine. Just a couple of counterpoints or things to consider. First, judging is probably more of the issue than changing SVs. The bonuses to get to a 10 SV on a 2 pass routine are supposed to be made up by leaps and turns. There are plenty deductions that should be taken for less than 180 degree leaps and turns that aren't taken. Second, context of NCAA women's gymnastics is important to consider too. Meaning, the lion's share of gymnasts competing in NCAA are not former elites or top level 10s. And the ones that are former elites are often dealing with chronic pain and injuries from their elite careers. Creating an emphasis on difficulty, done incorrectly, not only creates even more disparity from the top teams but also has the potential to create more injuries.

 

[GymnastMomX2]

Anyone else a little frustrated by some of those 10s, how do you get a 10 with a foot slide or foot shuffle? Oklahoma had an amazing night, they didn’t need those gifts from the judges.

 

[bookworm]

Anyone else a little frustrated by some of those 10s, how do you get a 10 with a foot slide or foot shuffle? Oklahoma had an amazing night, they didn’t need those gifts from the judges.

A lot of scores are frustrating , but as I commented above when a poster asked about an Oklahoma vault that "looked more like a 9.75", the judges absolutely will not go there unless it's a glaringly obvious error, like a fall...and I've even seen judges go 9.5 on routines with a fall and wobbles and you just shake your head.

It was stunning last year when Oklahoma did have 2 beam falls in the semifinals that eliminated them from the championships but especially for the top teams, unless the error is HUGE, you will mostly see scores 9.85 and above....what my daughter and I refer to "I finished my routine without a fall "score...not accounting for wobbles, missteps, balance checks, shape issues etc. And any routine that ends with "feet not moving" is considered a "stick" ...even if the gymnast bends at the waist, arm waves etc...the definition of "stick" needs to be more than feet not moving. There are deductions these judges can take but they choose to not take them and you end up with 9 way ties for second with a 9.9.

 

[superNova08]

A lot of scores are frustrating , but as I commented above when a poster asked about an Oklahoma vault that "looked more like a 9.75", the judges absolutely will not go there unless it's a glaringly obvious error, like a fall...and I've even seen judges go 9.5 on routines with a fall and wobbles and you just shake your head.

It was stunning last year when Oklahoma did have 2 beam falls in the semifinals that eliminated them from the championships but especially for the top teams, unless the error is HUGE, you will mostly see scores 9.85 and above....what my daughter and I refer to "I finished my routine without a fall "score...not accounting for wobbles, missteps, balance checks, shape issues etc. And any routine that ends with "feet not moving" is considered a "stick" ...even if the gymnast bends at the waist, arm waves etc...the definition of "stick" needs to be more than feet not moving. There are deductions these judges can take but they choose to not take them and you end up with 9 way ties for second with a 9.9.

I honestly have to agree with it being an "i finished my routine without a fall" score. Which is sad honestly. This is a sport. It should be judged as so.

 

[Flicfliclay]

It can be frustrating especially knowing that level 10's get scored WAY more harsh than NCAA D1 athletes!

 

[bookworm]

It can be frustrating especially knowing that level 10's get scored WAY more harsh than NCAA D1 athletes!

It’s not that Level 10s are scored more harshly, it’s that the judges are more inclined to do their jobs at DP/JO meets.

The scuttlebutt you hear is “10s make spectators more likely to come” and that’s rubbish. I think the multitude of 10s (although there were only 33 this year vs 80+ last year) and 9.9-9.975s give the younger DP/Xcel/AAU athletes a false sense of how things score. In the 17 years we were in club, you very rarely saw a 9.7 or a 38 AA , never mind the 10s and 39s you hear about now … so is this judging just going haywire from top to bottom?! I would hate to see gymnastics go the WWE route where everything is fake…

 

[Flicfliclay]

It’s not that Level 10s are scored more harshly, it’s that the judges are more inclined to do their jobs at DP/JO meets.

The scuttlebutt you hear is “10s make spectators more likely to come” and that’s rubbish. I think the multitude of 10s (although there were only 33 this year vs 80+ last year) and 9.9-9.975s give the younger DP/Xcel/AAU athletes a false sense of how things score. In the 17 years we were in club, you very rarely saw a 9.7 or a 38 AA , never mind the 10s and 39s you hear about now … so is this judging just going haywire from top to bottom?! I would hate to see gymnastics go the WWE route where everything is fake…

Oh yes that is what i meant that the judges for sure take the deductions. The judging becomes even more apparent when at state and regionals where you see the scores the judges give and see how off some of the judging can be. If dropping the high score and low score of the 4 judges, you should not see a drastically different score... but i have and do and it's so confusing!