New Club Grades

[Faith]

UglyBetty- I think they do split up according to age- if you look at My meet scores I think they all compete together but placings are given out for age groups. Again though they're split to give even numbers.

I only gathered that from reading here though

 

[Iwannabemargo]

true, but they are then sub-divided into age bands and have regional / national finals based on those age bands. Obviously we do not have the numbers of gymnasts that they have, there is segregation

 

[Iwannabemargo]

ooh snap @Faith

 

[Faith]

We would have the numbers with a more linear system though? Currently some clubs don't do compulsories, some do grades, others do regional voluntaries, others do/don't do invitationals.

 

[Kit Kat]

Kitkat I agree- I see so many kids who are could do compulsory 4 easily- BHS on beam, often have BWOBHS on beam, upstarts, flyaways, handspring vault, half on half off sometimes, BLO on floor- yet they're competing grade 14 or 13

I think a linear progression would be much better- and fitting in with the OOA levels, so top grade (5) is equal to compulsory 5- then they move to level 4,3,2 and 1 OOA. Maybe with OOA not having R+C, or a modified R+C

I think we have too many competitions at all different levels- grades, voluntaries, regionals, invitationals. Too much adjusting of routines and rules. Even it out then clubs can actually compete more as there's less time spent on redoing routines..

I also think a linear path is better psychologically- no matter how old a child or how talented, they can see that path to elite, even if they're never going to get there. I think removing that path so early removes all those 7/8 year old dreams and goals before they've had chance to even dream them...

Lol I totally agree although I haven't told my 8 year old she's not going to the Olympics Why not have a dream After reading some of these posts seems like she is not alone in her plight this year. Although she isn't going elite it would be nice if she could of competed a grade this year in line with her progression. It is just a really strange way of doing things. 13 and 14 should be for clubs which only compete grades and invitational competitions at grade level and the girls only train a sensible amount of hours accordingly.

They should give the girls doing slightly more training but not going elite a chance to get a higher grade certificates when they are ready. After all there're aren't many elites and even to do it ooa elite grade 4 would presumably involve training many many hours a week to get the range and conditioning perfected I would think it's more intended for elites have been injured or late starters who are intending going elite? Not for girls who train 12 hours a week like my dd and just want to work though a grades system at her own pace But still get a chance to shine or be at the top of their own game

 

[Kit Kat]

After a quick look on youtube I do like the system they have in the US. My dd competed probably equivalent to US new level 4 last autumn, then this spring had train routines and pass her BG grade 13 which is probuably in between US level 2-3!

Plus still fitting in her training for say equivalent US level 5 skills and routines to compete at her novice 4 piece later this year poor thing It just doesn't seem like a very constructive use of time for gymnasts who spend enough time training at a young age anyway

I also hear a lot of talk about tops is that like our range and conditioning ? but you can opt in or out of it it's not essential to compete US levels even better

 

[Flossyduck]

I've been at two regional compulsory comps so far this year and after chatting with parents and a coach I was interested to hear that none of the OOA girls (bar one, who I didn't get to hear about) actually trained alongside the in age girls or did the same number of hours. Most were in different training groups. In one case one of the girls did exactly half the hours the in age girls at our club are training for the same level, which was quite a surprise.

I like the idea of a system similar to the US as well and one of the advantages seems to be that if you are team you all train the same hours in the same way for the same level - then it's a level playing field training wise and girls will keep up or repeat according to ability and work ethic and not so much age. You could still have in age and out of age and maybe choose the national squad from in age, as now.

I can't see how the ooa option is going to work over here if the girls are expected to do it on fewer hours. They surely can't keep up like that? I don't get how it could be 'easier' for them if they they are not given the same training. One girl who did level 3 ooa (no idea of her background, I haven't looked it up), looked very lovely and scored well and I don't see any problem with her getting to level 2, but not in a year if she is still doing the hours she is doing now. It's all a bit odd.

It all still seems a muddle, where girls are training potentially for one set of skills and then having to switch to another. So yes please, a simplified and streamlined system with one set of skills and the opportunity to work at their own pace.

 

[Jenny]

We would have the numbers with a more linear system though? Currently some clubs don't do compulsories, some do grades, others do regional voluntaries, others do/don't do invitationals.

But on the flip side, the choice allows a huge variety of clubs with different aims, goals and expectations. USAG has recognised the need for more variety in their system and are promoting xcel and other versions of levels. The variety we have is good but it can be disappointing if the club you are at (or can get to) doesn't follow the ideal model for your child. And by the time you realise it isn't the best path for your dd it can feel like you have missed the boat. I suppose that could be the same for every activity from the piano teacher you choose or the ballet school they attend.

 

[Jenny]

I also hear a lot of talk about tops is that like our range and conditioning ? but you can opt in or out of it it's not essential to compete US levels even better

Range and conditioning prepares gymnasts for new skills, improves presentation and should reduce injury by creating better conditioned athletes. So it is a good thing.

 

[Jenny]

I like the idea of a system similar to the US as well and one of the advantages seems to be that if you are team you all train the same hours in the same way for the same level - then it's a level playing field training wise and girls will keep up or repeat according to ability and work ethic and not so much age.

If you search through old threads here you will find that girls the same level do not all train the same hours in the JO system. It is very common and it causes huge upset. 'Fast tracked' or 'hot shots' or whatever groups get up to double the hours. When they go into meets other parents feel their children are at a disadvantage as these children can sweep the board. I think it is one of those things. There will always be a child up against your child who does more hours, better facility, smaller coaching group, more privates, more talent, better coach. It would just drive you mad if you stopped to think.

But it does sound nice on paper to all work through the same levels. Wouldn't work in practice unfortunately. Some children will never learn to do certain skills and others learn them so fast it would near impossible and non productive to coach them all together. And many families don't want elite hours either. Of course it is an imperfect system and sadly some children will slip through, but some of the issues arise through how individual clubs implement the system rather than the system itself.

Interesting what you say about the OOA compulsory girls doing less hours than in age but I suppose they have had a whole extra year to perfect the skills and the clubs think that should be enough.

 

[Flossyduck]

You're right. I think we've been round in this circle before on another thread. And after I posted I was thinking the same- that some girls will never get giants or flight skills on beam or manage the range, and some wont want to put the numbers of hours in to maintain that level of conditioning, so you can't have them all under the same system.

The ooa extra year though is only the case this year. If they are are a year older, they have theoretically had an extra year to get the skills for this round, but if they are all expected to move to the next level in a years time that advantage is immediately nulled as they have the same amount of time to gain the same skills but the ooa ones I spoke with are training less in the gym. That's where I thought it gets odd.

Maybe we should just put all the girls together and ask them to sort it!

 

[Jenny]

Yes I can see that could be problem for next year if hours are much less. In big clubs I expect the 'in age' groups stay pretty much full and they can't fit anymore in. Smaller clubs might put them together.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

But looking at it from my perspective ( and I would say that as a level 5/4 UK P&F would be a US level 6), at this level - pre difficult skills like giants and serious acro on beam, the US system hits optionals anyway, and so there is some flexibility for those pesky tricky skills, and who says a girl can't level out for years if that one skill eludes her. I would also think that the vast majority of UK gymnasts train many fewer hours than their US counterparts from what I have read on here.

I don't know, but I do think some tweaking away from 3 separate streams is required.

 

[Rapunzel]

I think there is a benefit of capping hours, not sure how you can enforce it though. Eg "10yr olds shouldn't train more than 24hours a week".
As for "they've had a year more to practice than IA" - if they didn't step into a gym until they were 7, then maybe they haven't. I think it's incredibly difficult to get a level playing field.
And the age rulings, a Decenber born girl that has just turned 7 can be competing Grade 14 against a girl who was 8 in January - so effectively they've had a year extra to train.
From what I understand for the Espoir girls, there can be a 2 yr age difference - will that change with compulsory level 1? It would be interesting to see how much of a factor age is in competitions before junior level, for example the Espoirs that did well in Glasgow in December, were they the older girls or doesn't it matter at that point?

 

[Kit Kat]

But looking at it from my perspective ( and I would say that as a level 5/4 UK P&F would be a US level 6), at this level - pre difficult skills like giants and serious acro on beam, the US system hits optionals anyway, and so there is some flexibility for those pesky tricky skills, and who says a girl can't level out for years if that one skill eludes her. I would also think that the vast majority of UK gymnasts train many fewer hours than their US counterparts from what I have read on here.

I don't know, but I do think some tweaking away from 3 separate streams is required.

I agree optionals are great for gymnasts they can play up to their own strengths. Hopefully next year dd will her find more her own level grade wise the options for 4 piece grades in our region are elite grades 5, 4 or 3 in age only, grade 13 and 14 plus grade 13 and 14 out of age and then grades 12 to 9 and all national grades open age. The 4 piece comps in autumn are pre novice 8, 9, 10, 11 novice 9,10, 11 and then regional level 4 and 3 and then modified fig or for the elites level 5, 4, 3 and 2. We do have quite a variety

 

[Jenny]

I agree optionals are great for gymnasts they can play up to their own strengths. Hopefully next year dd will her find more her own level grade wise the options for 4 piece grades in our region are elite grades 5, 4 or 3 in age only, grade 13 and 14 plus grade 13 and 14 out of age and then grades 12 to 9 and all national grades open age. The 4 piece comps in autumn are pre novice 8, 9, 10, 11 novice 9,10, 11 and then regional level 4 and 3 and then modified fig or for the elites level 5, 4, 3 and 2. We do have quite a variety

Out of age 3 will have to be offered in all regions now although some years there might not be anyone competing it.

 

[Uglybetty]

I can't see how the ooa option is going to work over here if the girls are expected to do it on fewer hours. They surely can't keep up like that? I don't get how it could be 'easier' for them if they they are not given the same training. One girl who did level 3 ooa (no idea of her background, I haven't looked it up), looked very lovely and scored well and I don't see any problem with her getting to level 2, but not in a year if she is still doing the hours she is doing now.

Completely agree. I have a feeling that a lot of coaches are still unconvinced about the ooa thing....that's why they are not giving ooa girls the same hours they give to their tiny elite potential girls. Nobody likes change. It's a shame as I think potential is being missed and late starters have reached elite before (e.g. 2008 Olympics - Marissa King - didn't step into a gym until she was 9).

I think technically because they can do levels 3, 2 & 1 at any age... You could take 2 or more years to do each one and be several years ooa by the end. With the increased career longevity this shouldn't be too problematic, but I have no idea what will happen with national comps e.g. Will you miss Espoir and possibly Junior?

 

[Jenny]

Yes you will miss those and go straight in at senior. But of course you need to obtain the requalifying score each year.

I know there are several clubs near me who are actively progressing girls down the OOA path so I am surprised to hear that isn't the case in other regions. I am also surprised to hear that OOA girls are being given half the hours of in age girls. I kind of understand slightly less hours as the girls are only trying to obtain a pass score to enable them to move to the next grade. There is no pressure of trying to make a regional team for nationals, no pressure of competing against the very best at nationals, and no pressure of trying to make British squad. But of course each club will arrange things differently to suit their needs.

Does anyone know if there will be a retake option in the autumn or will it be one chance a year.

 

[Kit Kat]

Yes you will miss those and go straight in at senior. But of course you need to obtain the requalifying score each year.

I know there are several clubs near me who are actively progressing girls down the OOA path so I am surprised to hear that isn't the case in other regions. I am also surprised to hear that OOA girls are being given half the hours of in age girls. I kind of understand slightly less hours as the girls are only trying to obtain a pass score to enable them to move to the next grade. There is no pressure of trying to make a regional team for nationals, no pressure of competing against the very best at nationals, and no pressure of trying to make British squad. But of course each club will arrange things differently to suit their needs.

Does anyone know if there will be a retake option in the autumn or will it be one chance a year.

I know in our region they had gymnasts retaking 3 last autumn alongside another comp so they get 2 chances a year. I like the idea of ooa. My dd would loved be able to do ooa 5 this year if she had it as an option. I don't think she could keep it up later down the line so for her perhaps no point, especially on less hours like @flossy duck said. She could do the range she has very good oversplits press handstands. Ooa is really great idea it would be nice to see girls going down that route I know my dd would of been thrilled ooa 5 instead of 13 this year even if she just did ooa this year it would have fitted in more with the skills she competed last year at prenovice.

 

[Rapunzel]

Is pre novice, novice a different route or is it alongside grades? So if you have a gymnast who has passed grade 13 say could they compete as a pre-novice/novice?