Parents New to gymanstics and have some questions about talented and motivated 5 year old.

[NutterButter]

It's a red flag that your neighborhood gym only has L3 and L4. Here's a few things to keep in mind as you contemplate when to move her. First, consider the scores of your gym and others. If you find that your gym consistently has lower AA scores in your area then that would might be a reason to consider changing. Your DD sounds like she has raw talent. And it seems like she loves gym. This is great! I don't want to take anything away from her at all with this next comment. You will find as she advances that there is a big difference between having a skill and having a skill that is ready for competition. For example, my DD has had her double back for a month. Yet she is probably still a couple months out from competing it in a meet. It takes time to perfect skills and be able to confidently execute it under the pressure of competition. Skills have to be clean enough so that they aren't tenth'd to death. If your DD is learning any sort of sloppy habits now, these will have to be corrected down the road by another coach. You may be seeing some of this in the coaching from the other gym you are going to. As others have said, focus on basics is pretty big in the lower levels. You haven't said why your gym only competes 2 levels or how they are but in my mind this could be an indicator that they are not capable of coaching higher levels. In which case, a move sooner may be best.

Second, consider that L3 is not a mandatory level to compete. L4 is the first level that a gymnast must score out of in order to move to L5. You don't have to compete L3 to compete L4 (though a gym may require this, it is not necessary per USAG). Many gyms don't compete L3 and it's simply part of pre-team. In my area (big city in the upper midwest) many gyms don't even compete L3. Some may compete Xcel bronze instead to give girls competition experience and many just start at L4. This is something to consider if you are looking at other gyms.

Third, consider a 'normal' trajectory for girls in your gym. Do they spend multiple years competing each level? Then what happens when they are ready for L5 or L6? Why does your gym no longer have optionals?

 

[John]

Also consider a gym change is an extremely stressful event. Your DD will leave team mates and friends she will have grown to love. Get her to the best gym as early as you can. Should she then continue to love gym she will have friends and coaches she already loves. Not to mention top notch training from the beginning.

Do not judge the ability of your own child. Simply love her and tell her to reach for the stars and then assist her in making her dreams come true.

 

[profmom]

John, I absolutely disagree that it's necessary to "get her to the best gym as early as you can" if that entails a very lengthy commute. She's five and she's only just started gymnastics. Even most older kids with much more established relationships going back years do fine with gym switches when the time is right. I don't think taking on a draining commute this early in the process makes sense. Next year she could well decide that gymnastics, with all its focus on repetition and perfection, is boring and she'd rather play soccer. I'd suggest waiting until it's clear that the commitment and drive on the child's part are there for the longer haul before investing a ton of family resources (both money and time) into this. I would guess that everyone on this board whose daughter did preteam can remember at least a few of those gung ho little girls who ended up not continuing, and furthermore that they couldn't necessarily have predicted at the time which ones they would be.

One note on the low beam-high beam thing as well -- every significant skill that your daughter will ever do on beam will be learned on a low beam first. Part of what preteam and early training for compulsories can do is teach little ones that working hard on the low beam is important. I guarantee you that Simone Biles is spending some quality time with a low beam right now as she trains her way back into competition form.

 

[John]

You points on driving and age are spot on.

I would never evaluate my child's talent level nor do I compare her to others. I know what skills a 5 10 or 13 year old have mean little other than letting those Gymnasts accomplish their own personal dreams.

Background
My DD started at a IGC gym 7 minutes from our home. Most here believe that IGC is inferior gymnastics. Personally I feel that the program itself is better but conditioning and repetition are weak points.

Current
DD moved USAG. The move was very stressful on our family. Leaving friends and relationships is hard on little ones.

Having been through this my suggestion was start where you want to finish. I never suggested how far the Op should drive, that is something for the family and only the family to determine. My comments were just something to consider.

 

[Iwannabemargo]

Oh and the sweetheart thing, maybe he just hasn't learned her name yet ?

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Having been through this my suggestion was start where you want to finish.

Totally disagree. Go with what works at the time. For 2 reasons

1- What a child needs may change over time. A child changes over time.

My child at 5 needed different things then she did at 8 and now going on 12.

The path to get to where they finish is very important. You need to give themwhat they need where they are at. Or you can risk them not ever finishing. Meet them where they are at.

My daughters coach at 5 was exactly what she needed at 5. And what she needed would not have worked with her current coaches.

When she needed more and was ready for more than her first gym could give her, we moved.

Her current coaches are great for her now.
Should her needs change again so will we.

2- And the gym where you plan to “finish” can change over time.

I don’t see us changing gyms again.

However should our gym’s environment/coaches change in a way that doesn’t work for my daughter or our family. I wouldn’t hesitate to find a different gym.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

For instance, he wanted them to jump on the spring board and do a roll onto the vault mat which she did and then he told her to keep her arms straight. Why don't you just ask her to do a handstand which she can do. They also lower their beams for the class and she is constantly falling off.

Because these things are part of progressions and drilling safely. Getting form and shapes solid.

All that boring stuff that doesn’t seem like much is laying a foundation for when the skills get bigger and more dangerous.

I can assure no gym will be letting her flip things like tucks, BHS and more starting on the high beam.

Part of being ready for team and higher level gymnastics is having the maturity and ability to deal with the “boring” stuff. The conditioning, the drills. Learning something on the tumble track before taking it to the floor, before taking it to floor beam, before taking it to the low beam and finally the high beam.

It’s the thousands of tap swings before a giant.

It’s OK if a 5 yr old is not ready for that. They are 5.

 

[John]

Totally disagree. Go with what works at the time. For 2 reasons

1- What a child needs may change over time. A child changes over time.

My child at 5 needed different things then she did at 8 and now going on 12.

The path to get to where they finish is very important. You need to give themwhat they need where they are at. Or you can risk them not ever finishing. Meet them where they are at.

My daughters coach at 5 was exactly what she needed at 5. And what she needed would not have worked with her current coaches.

When she needed more and was ready for more than her first gym could give her, we moved.

Her current coaches are great for her now.
Should her needs change again so will we.

2- And the gym where you plan to “finish” can change over time.

I don’t see us changing gyms again.

However should our gym’s environment/coaches change in a way that doesn’t work for my daughter or our family. I wouldn’t hesitate to find a different gym.

2 suggested paths to the same end goal.

 

[Peachy88]

I was going to say the same thing. *Usually*, IME, it is the better coaches that take longer to introduce the higher skills. Based on what I have seen at the high power gyms around here, they spend the pre team years on basics, basics, basics, and strength, only moving on when they are absolutely perfect. It is gyms that are not very competitive, or only have rec teams that will rush the little kids through skills.

DD was at what I believe is the second best gym in the entire large metro (we are in Texas - there are a lot of excellent gyms to choose from) and they spent 2.5 years on conditioning, shapes, cartwheels and how to run and backward rolls to push up, handstands on beam, pullovers, casts and back hip circles and wall bar, wall bar, rope, more wall bar and more rope. That is all. Round offs and back handsprings and back tucks on the trampoline were JUST being introduced at the end of the 3rd year of preteam (girls ~7 years old). We had a couple friends move from our gym to the best gym in the city, and they are moving even slower. This changes after a few years. The fantastic basics and incredible strength, means that once they are ready, the begin to acquire new skills at a pretty fast pace. Around level 4ish?

Also, I know this will probably not be well recieved, but EVERY parent I have heard say, "She has an X, why don't they let her do her X?" Has been missing the form errors of her daughter's X - which is typically the answer to the question. If her roll on the mat has bent arms, then in the eyes of the coach, she's not ready for the handstand yet. Or at least not to do it properly.

And I sympathize, I also have a DD who falls off the low beam but not the high beam. For the same reason she can land a beautiful handstand and cartwheel on high beam, but falls off on her lever. I call it the "I don't want to die" complex. She does harder skills better than easier skills, because she knows there is a higher likelihood of injury on the harder skills, so she better pay attention and be tight. But that is her own maturity issue. It is not her coaches job to let her chuck harder skills or do skills on the high beam, just because my DD isn't mature enough to focus when it's "easy." That's my DD's job to work on. I keep saying one day it will click!!

I don't think I'd take on a huge driving commitment for a 5 year old L2-L3. There's plenty of time. Give her a chance to do gym for a while and see if she really likes it and enjoys competing. You'll hear this a lot, but it's a marathon, not a sprint, and you're best off keeping your powder dry for the big sacrifices of time, opportunity cost, and money that will come later on if she continues. Our gym is something of a cachement in the area -- we pick up girls from other gyms in late compulsories/early optionals who have outgrown their gyms. They generally have no trouble catching up on the form/shaping things they need to address.

I called the other gym that is far away today and they were awesome. We are going to go for an eval and I told them that I am not interested in driving the distance now unless they saw something really special in her and I was completely fine with them being honest in that she would do just fine in a local gym. They totally got what I meant and were happy and excited to see her in a couple of weeks regardless if we join now or if she is going to train for now near home and then we drive later for higher levels.

I totally get the anxious feeling about them moving her slow, but as others have said it's part of the process. My DD was doing big fun skills in advanced rec; when they moved her to level 3, I was so confused and felt like they were holding her back. Conditioning and repetition is what they need to build muscle memory.

I dont like that "sweetheart" thing, but that might be a tough hill to climb to get that to change.

John, I absolutely disagree that it's necessary to "get her to the best gym as early as you can" if that entails a very lengthy commute. She's five and she's only just started gymnastics. Even most older kids with much more established relationships going back years do fine with gym switches when the time is right. I don't think taking on a draining commute this early in the process makes sense. Next year she could well decide that gymnastics, with all its focus on repetition and perfection, is boring and she'd rather play soccer. I'd suggest waiting until it's clear that the commitment and drive on the child's part are there for the longer haul before investing a ton of family resources (both money and time) into this. I would guess that everyone on this board whose daughter did preteam can remember at least a few of those gung ho little girls who ended up not continuing, and furthermore that they couldn't necessarily have predicted at the time which ones they would be.

One note on the low beam-high beam thing as well -- every significant skill that your daughter will ever do on beam will be learned on a low beam first. Part of what preteam and early training for compulsories can do is teach little ones that working hard on the low beam is important. I guarantee you that Simone Biles is spending some quality time with a low beam right now as she trains her way back into competition form.

I think I misspoke on the low beam thing. I understand it is normal to work on the low beam. She does her cartwheels and handstands on it. They are just walking across it in this class. This is a rec class as they won't start a new group of preteamers until Jan. I am a professional musician and teach a lot of younger players to college age and understand a strong emphasis on fundamentals and strength. She also doesn't have a problem doing a hundreds of a skill. She literally practices 2-3 hours a day at home when not in the gym. And what is she doing? Basics. I get it and she gets it. This coach was not explaining the rationale or demonstrating and so she was being corrected when she hadn't been told what to do accurately.

 

[duyetanh]

We do it for compulsories...bc I want to give her the chance to be a strong, competitive optional. Which means, you have to go to a gym with strong basics, right?

Yes. And no.
Sorry to sound cryptic, but it, while desirable, is not definitive of becoming a strong, competitive optional. Yes it gives her the chance, but no it is not always necessary. This sport is so cray cray with all the potential things that can happen....I honestly wish there were more black and whites with it and less shades of gray.....

 

[CAKE]

Okay, I totally understand you. I had a 5 year old like the one you are describing. I finally got the sense to go to a good gym and get over my desire to not drive because I saw what gymnastics brought to my daughter in discipline, self confidence, etc. I drive an hour 5 days a week right now.. sometimes the way home has less traffic and I make it home in 35... so 1.5 hours total.

When I got to the good gym I couldnt understand why they wouldnt let my kids do all these skills I saw them do at home on our trampoline (our JO program also topped out at level 4 so my kids taught themselves a lot of gymnastics because there just wasnt an option of good coaching) Then I started going to some competitions and truly began to understand gymnastics. My girls could do full ins on a tramp in the most unsafe ugly ways but you know what they didnt know how to do? A PROPER handstand. They had horrid form. If you have horrid form and just keep doing harder and harder skills, one of two things will happen. You will either get hurt or stunt yourself and not be able to progress anymore because it will snowball.

So, your child must have the temperament that she is willing to do that forward roll on the mat until she has it the way her coach wants it (which is the way a judge wants it). It doesnt matter if she can do other skills. She has to get the basics flawless.

Also, stop letting her practice 2-3 hours at home unless you are sure she has great form because I had mommy goggles on and thought my kids were the bees knees and they were, but they also had horrendous form. Gymnastics isnt about throwing a trick. Gymnastics is about perfecting a skill/bodyline/movement. Now that Im at a good gym and understand more about gymnastics I let my kids practice at home but am super quick to stop them if they arent doing it with the form every time. It takes so many less imprints to build proper muscle memory than it does to correct it!!!!!

Hope the gym you are getting evaluated at is a good fit for your daughter and family. Good luck!

 

[CAKE]

Things I wish I would have had my 5 yr old do at home besides gymnastics skills-

jump rope!!!!!!
ride her bike
balance activities like boscu ball or foam blocks while toe touching, on one leg, throwing a ball, etc...
Agility games
bodyweight exercises
press handstands!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ankle strengthening exercises
Hand grip exercises
l -leg lifts
Pull ups
handstand walks
handstand holds
dance to music on the beat - coming up with her own routines to music - youd be surprise how hard it is to do the gymnastics to music for little ones!
simon says, red light green light (games that increase focus and attention)
Cuddle!
Crafts!
Trust me, when you end up in the gym 4+ days a week you will really miss lots of things like: cuddling, bedtimes where your kid isnt exhausted from gym.. early dinner... your weekend

 

[Peachy88]

Okay, I totally understand you. I had a 5 year old like the one you are describing. I finally got the sense to go to a good gym and get over my desire to not drive because I saw what gymnastics brought to my daughter in discipline, self confidence, etc. I drive an hour 5 days a week right now.. sometimes the way home has less traffic and I make it home in 35... so 1.5 hours total.

When I got to the good gym I couldnt understand why they wouldnt let my kids do all these skills I saw them do at home on our trampoline (our JO program also topped out at level 4 so my kids taught themselves a lot of gymnastics because there just wasnt an option of good coaching) Then I started going to some competitions and truly began to understand gymnastics. My girls could do full ins on a tramp in the most unsafe ugly ways but you know what they didnt know how to do? A PROPER handstand. They had horrid form. If you have horrid form and just keep doing harder and harder skills, one of two things will happen. You will either get hurt or stunt yourself and not be able to progress anymore because it will snowball.

So, your child must have the temperament that she is willing to do that forward roll on the mat until she has it the way her coach wants it (which is the way a judge wants it). It doesnt matter if she can do other skills. She has to get the basics flawless.

Also, stop letting her practice 2-3 hours at home unless you are sure she has great form because I had mommy goggles on and thought my kids were the bees knees and they were, but they also had horrendous form. Gymnastics isnt about throwing a trick. Gymnastics is about perfecting a skill/bodyline/movement. Now that Im at a good gym and understand more about gymnastics I let my kids practice at home but am super quick to stop them if they arent doing it with the form every time. It takes so many less imprints to build proper muscle memory than it does to correct it!!!!!

Hope the gym you are getting evaluated at is a good fit for your daughter and family. Good luck!

How do you get them to stop practicing? No seriously?

 

[profmom]

Stop reinforcing the stuff they shouldn't be doing and redirect toward the safer things Cake suggested. I'm always mystified by the parents who say they can't stop their kids from doing crazy stupid stuff at home as a tag line ON A VIDEO OF THEIR KIDS DOING CRAZY STUPID STUFF AT HOME that they are posting on Facebook or Instagram. Kids are very quick to pick up on parental enthusiasm or interest in what they are doing. They will often cut down on the stuff that's not getting an engaged audience.

That being said, enjoy your own enthusiasm for it for now. Believe me, you will get very tired of tripping over the damn parallettes and having your kid randomly go up into handstand two inches in front of you, though you will eventually stop flinching and worrying that they're going to kick you in the face.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

How do you get them to stop practicing? No seriously?

Seriously, you just say no/stop. And issue consequences for breaking the rule.

Immediate gratification is not necessary. And learning patience is a great life skill.

You explain its important to do gym in the gym, so she can be properly spotted and corrected and you say no gym at home, gym belongs in the gym.

And then you offer up the excellent suggestions below

Things I wish I would have had my 5 yr old do at home besides gymnastics skills-

jump rope!!!!!!
ride her bike
balance activities like boscu ball or foam blocks while toe touching, on one leg, throwing a ball, etc...
Agility games
bodyweight exercises
press handstands!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ankle strengthening exercises
Hand grip exercises
l -leg lifts
Pull ups
handstand walks
handstand holds
dance to music on the beat - coming up with her own routines to music - youd be surprise how hard it is to do the gymnastics to music for little ones!
simon says, red light green light (games that increase focus and attention)
Cuddle!
Crafts!
Trust me, when you end up in the gym 4+ days a week you will really miss lots of things like: cuddling, bedtimes where your kid isnt exhausted from gym.. early dinner... your weekend

 

[Nikki4]

If I could go back in time, when we lived in another state and my daughter was 5.5.....
I still wish we had made the hour drive to the other gym! But I thought that was crazy then. But it would've have a made a big difference!

 

[Nikki4]

[QUOTE="profmom, post: 534983, member: 11006
That being said, enjoy your own enthusiasm for it for now. Believe me, you will get very tired of tripping over the damn parallettes and having your kid randomly go up into handstand two inches in front of you, though you will eventually stop flinching and worrying that they're going to kick you in the face.[/QUOTE]



EVERYDAY!!!!!

 

[CAKE]

For the love of all that is holy, if you have a kid that is doing 2 hours a day of gymnastics on her own, get her to a good gym quick. I had those kids and I took them to the closest gym and it was a huge mistake for my oldest who had college gymnastic aspirations by age 8. 8 was almost too late to get back on a college track with natural talent and bad form.
I wish I would have done the drive.

Ive got a younger daughter who has excelled so much faster because she had quality coaching but I still wish we would have been at a good gym by age 5. We were a year late before we decided to commit to gymnastics. It is a young sport. Yes, anything can happen.. but in an ideal situation I would have had mine in a TOPS feeder program by 5.



How did I stop them? I took all the equipment and put it in the garage for months when we first moved gyms. I had all the stuff. I know Id be considered a CGM.. but you do what you have to do when you have no coaching options and kids that love the sport.

I asked my coach how I could make sure she wouldnt get bad form and her words were "take it down".

So I did.

And I bought a jump rope and a boscu ball. We had a total gym and they kept access to the handstand mat .. but that was it for months. Was it fun? No? But I could see way more improvement in the gym from me helping them with that kind of stuff, than when they were doing gymnastics at home, teaching themselves off youtube videos.

It's a amusing to me that my little can do a full, but cannot jump rope to save her life. I guarantee you are going to find some uneven skill development in your gymmie. If yours can already do all that stuff, find a TOPS program if possible. Conditioning is the best thing you can work on at home.. make it a game for her. What I did was create personal bests board of exercises that they had to do at gym - and then we tracked the progress. How many vsits can you do in 30 seconds? Pull ups, l leg lifts.. how long can you hold a hand stand? A few times a week we updated the board. If that is too boring, enroll her in a dance class. Learning how to do things in time with music is only going to help her in the future. If she is still bored, find a rec soccer league because endurance is not something that gymnastics trains for but it is an asset.

Or my kids could go outside and play but I even took the trampoline away for awhile. I explained it to them that when the coaches and their competition scores said they were ready to have it back, they could have it but for right now they needed to get the muscle memory right at the gym or they were just sabotaging themselves at home. My 6 year old understood and developed crazy shoulder muscles from how much she did the total gym those months which increased the number of press hands stands she could do in a row as a bonus.

I did give things back as Ive come to understand more and only allow them to practice their current skills, we rarely do any fun attempts at uptraining these days... but occasionally we do have "fun" time on the equipment again. Some people wouldnt agree with that here but I try to look for a balance because letting them have some fun at home helps keep them from burning out in the very regimented program they are in.

 

[John]

If at all possible be careful with lengthy conditioning. Gymnastics is about short bursts of huge power, think white meat on your chicken.

 

[CAKE]

If at all possible be careful with lengthy conditioning. Gymnastics is about short bursts of huge power, think white meat on your chicken.

Good luck getting any kid to want to do more than 30-45 minutes of conditioning no matter how fun you make it. You find they start asking to do gymnastics less when their options are conditioning

The most powerful kid I know does club soccer and TOPs gymnastics concurrently. 2nd does competitive dance and gymnastics concurrently. These kids have crazy power on vaulting and casting!!! My kids do not have that kid of stamina but the power that those two kids have is so amazing I see the wisdom of channeling the energy into exposure to other sports if you have a child who will not sit still.