WAG Not creating further damage

[COz]

I think if *you* don't think of not competing as a demotion and clearly explain to your daughter your concerns she may surprise you.

We had an abusive situation in a dance school. Not quite as bad as that, but almost. My daughter started saying "it's OK that she yells at us because she's not angry, she just wants us to do better"...
At the point when we left, I don't think it had affected her very much, me more than her, but it had reached an inexcusable level. I was watching first hand. I'd defended the teacher for a long time and when that line was crossed we absolutely couldn't stay.

Yes, you need to learn to work with difficult people, people you don't like etc. tolerance, work ethic etc. but abuse is abuse and leaving my child in that school would have set her up for a lifetime of 'abuse is OK'.

I was amazed at the maturity and perception that my 5 year old showed when I discussed the situation and a potential move. I hadn't intented to go into as much detail as I eventually did about my reasons, but she wanted to talk about it more and I was really impressed. There was a definite shift, almost a relaxing, a relief in her when she realised that there was another option and she didn't have to keep tolerating the situation.

 

[sevenatenine2]

At my daughter's previous gym, she competed old Level 4 at 7 years old. She was the youngest in her group, although there was another 7 year old, an 8 year old and then two older girls, like 12-ish. She started preteam at 5 and always wanted me to stay so I stayed and watched for the first few years.

Anyway, the other 7 year old had a mental block with her ROBHS. She's actually still dealing with it now, 2 years later. Anyway, the group moved from the gymnastics floor over to the cheer floor to do their routines. I'm not sure why they moved over there because they used the cheer floor only for stretching usually. So, they do their routines and first the other 7 year old balked on her bhs. The coach looked grouchy, but not much more than usual. Then one of the 12 year olds went and balked on her bhs. This was unusual. Coach looked stern and had some words with the girl and then my daughter went up and also didn't do her bhs. Coach went ballistic. Completely lost it and started screaming at her in front of the entire gym and the viewing room, as they were on the floor right next to the windows. My daughter just put her head on her knees and cried. To clarify, my daughter had never balked on anything before. I don't know if the other girls affected her. She said the cheer floor had no springs and she was afraid to go. She'd only had her bhs for three months at the time so that would make sense.

I was ticked off. I considered pulling her off the floor and leaving immediately, but there were no other gyms in our town with a team. Also, the other coaches there were fine, I assume. I ended up going to the front desk and said I need to see an owner NOW. I don't remember what I ranted but I do remember the words, "She is SEVEN YEARS OLD........." The owner didn't say much to me but went out on the floor and pulled the coach (who grew even angrier) off the floor and sent the kids to another group. The coach was visibly angry as the owner talked to her. The coach never went back to the group that day.

I dropped it at that and at a mock meet that weekend the coach came and apologized to me, which I appreciated. My daughter ended up leaving that gym at the end of the season because it wasn't fun for her. In retrospect, it could be that she was too young for such intense training, perhaps not as passionate or as dedicated as one might need to be for that gym's program, OR she was just afraid of that coach and couldn't move on, although she has a successful season that year and both she and the coach seemed to get over it.

 

[COz]

Glad they got over it. There is a difference between a one off bad day, bad mood, temporary loss of control which shouldn't have happened but got dealt with appropriately and an ongoing thing where you start to constantly make excuses about why they're in a bad mood etc.

 

[windydays]

Behavior is unacceptable. I wonder what a principal would do to a teacher who told her math class they were sloppy pigs because their multiplication problems were incorrect. You have the same teacher:student relationship here.

We have a coach at our gym - not as bad - but displays this type of behavior. I have explained to my girls - they are older - that it is because she doesn't know how to teach, she has run out of ideas. Instead of asking a more experienced coach for help, looking on the Internet, she takes her frustration out on the learner.

Why would a HC and/or owner put up with this? Who the heck knows. Personally, I would rather have a small gym with a wait list than a large gym that was in turmoil. When families leave - and they do leave - they make known in the community why they left. And I doubt that once a family leaves, they come back to this environment.

I would definitely speak with the HC and/or owner. I don't care if she is having a good day because she got a bf Eventually, she is going to have to coach/teach, and that is her struggle.

Schedule a meeting and see what your response is.

 

[rosettasmom]

We left a gym that had a similar mentality. I told my dd we were done and her new gym was ready to meet her that very night. By the end of her 1st week she was thanking me for the change even though it meant not competing for a full year longer than she was anticipating. Best decision ever.

 

[skschlag]

If there is a pattern of this type of behavior, then i would be looking now. Children do not need to be sujected to this. If it was a one-time thing, that is different. But this sounds more a constant problem.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[mimi]

Totally abusive and you need to leave immediately. To do anything else could risk sending the message that this type of behavior is acceptable and of course you know that it is not. I would rather see a child leave the sport all together than have to be in that situation for one minute longer.

 

[shelovestoflip]

She is 6. Coach is crazy. Get out now. End of story.

 

[Seeker]

She is 6. Coach is crazy. Get out now. End of story.

Agree. At this point unless the gym took immediate punitive action, I wouldn't give my dd a vote on whether to stay or go. I would make the decision and either find a new gym or a new sport. Behavior by the coach is unacceptable. Beyond unacceptable.

 

[momnipotent]

Based on Monday and the pattern of behavior previous to that, I would pull her ASAP. Not only is her behavior over the top and out of line, the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde thing is far from beneficial. I would be on pins and needles every day wondering which personality I was going to get. And favorite or not, you better believe that I would let the HC /owner know exactly why we were leaving on our way out the door. (Not in a mean way, but in a matter-of-fact, "hey, this woman is going damage your business unless you step in kind of way.)

 

[gymdog]

Just leave, no matter what level she goes to or even back to rec she will catch up quickly, if she enjoys it more it won't matter as much to her what the level is called. Just tell her she will compete soon.

 

[alr83]

Thank you everyone! Now let's see if I can work with quotes...LOL

I think the issue is that preteam isn't team and she likely wouldn't compete except maybe one in house meet. Op I think if you told her that she would get to spend more time working on her L3/L4 skills in the hope of competing a higher level next year and remind her that she wouldn't necessarily fall behind if she did preteamthen L3 instead of L2 then L3 (ie if she stayed at her gym she'd probably be L3 next year and if she moves, she will hopefully be L3....although you don't want to make promises bc many teams decide levels as early as May or June), it could go a long way to help. Many kids would rather work their back handspring on preteam than practice a million bridge kickovers for their L2 routine.

Also if worst comes to worst, could you find another gym that has an L2 team? I believe preteam then L3 or L4 is better than competing L2...I get that she will be disappointed but no matter what you need to pull her from this program ASAP (also the later in the year it gets, the harder it will be to join a new team and still be ready for L3 next year). It will be better for her emotional health and her gymnastics! Keep us updated.

I have no issue with her not competing. That would be fine. I'm worried about what her confidence will be like if she does move to a "preteam". I would see it as a lateral move or possibly a move up if we end up at a gym that doesn't have a L2 team. Preteam has been used in part of the belittling process. The girls have been told that they aren't good enough and that maybe they should be moved back to preteam or advanced classes with the little kids (most are older than my DD, but not majority of the L2's). So preteam in general wouldn't be bad and I'd be fine with it at the right gym, however since it has been used as a threat in a way that makes it seem like it is nothing; how does my dd take it. Does she see a move to preteam in a gym that doesn't have a team at her level as being punished? My biggest worry would be that she sees it as current coaches have no confidence in her, we move her and put her in something that she was threatened with previously and thinks we also don't believe in her and possibly that new coaches already don't believe in her. As an adult, I can work through this process that this isn't the case, but how does a 6 y/o work through it? What is there thought process? I know they are resiliant, but having the perception that nobody believes in her is what my first post should have read like, is what my worry is.

There other gyms that do L2. Lots of them in fact. We already travel, so with traveling we have quite a few options...not all good options for us, but options. We also live very close to the state line. The gyms across the state line for the majority seem to start at L3 instead of 2. The gym recommendation we have is for one of them. So that is where I really have to choose and question what is in the best interest of my daughters confidence and self-esteem now - A gym that she could train with the L2 team and just not compete for now or a gym that doesn't have a L2 team and figure out how they would place her and if being moved to "preteam" under above circumstances would be partially damaging too. In the case of a L2 gym, we may find that it is just a resting point for a couple years and then if the other recommended gym is still a great option or somewhere else, move on again. I don't really want to gym hop.

My dd is a 6 yo L2 and around here L2 competes. We've already had multiple discussions that in many places, L1 and L2 don't compete.

I don't know whether your dd is really fond of competing. My dr likes it fine but I don't think it's a huge thing for her in gymnastics. She would be perfectly fine not competing and wouldn't care at all if she moved to another gym and was an equivalent level and not competing. She would care about being "demoted" but would easily accept that her new gym doesn't compete L2 and at this gym, preteam is equivalent of L2 at old gym, as evidenced by working on similar skills. Maybe your dd would as well? I find at this age, they are still so young and impressionable and so much is about how the parent and coach frames it.

She really likes to compete. She wants to win, but we've really instilled that it is doing your best, you can't control what the judge does. So it has become her wanting to get a higher score at each meet and a game to keep her points. Not competing wouldn't be the end of the world and it surely won't influence this decision. If she can continue, great....if not, that is what it is. Like I said above, preteam has been made out to be lesser and by having the same name, even if different meaning than current gym, it has a negative feeling for her right now. Will she have enough belief in me telling her that it isn't being pulled back?

Our area competes levels 1&2 as if it were a big deal. Last year, some seriously unhealthy things were going on at the gym (no yelling in her face, but other psyche damaging things to young children that were done and said that I won't get into). We moved her to another gym mid-season. So she missed 4 meets and did the state meet. She loves the meets, but she adjusted and is just fine, made new friends, likes her coaches, etc. Separate issue, but it might be beneficial to find a pre team that will move her onto lev 3 or 4. Dd has spent months perfecting level 2 stuff and is aggravated that she can't move on. I know that's not the point of this post though. The bigger issue is to get her out of there, and she will surely adapt.
Eta: um, calling 6 yr olds sloppy pigs is beyond unacceptable. No. Just no to everything you have described.

I wouldn't mind the preteam especially if they were uptraining for 3/4. I think given the chance, it wouldn't take her long to be ready to move on.

 

[alr83]

As other posters have stated- not acceptable behaviour on any level!!

Definitely let the HC know your concerns with specific examples.

As this coach has a typical pattern of abuse/ kindness as an adult I would have no faith in the long term attitude change- but hopefully will give you breathing space to find a new best fit gym.

Generally little ones take their attitude from those around them, so as others have suggested if you present the move as positive she will take that on board.

OP your little one also needs to know that you are not accepting this behaviour- at her level.

I would also work at giving her positive self esteem ' boosters' in other areas- for example art is good as it is subjective- so I would maybe get her to paint/ draw/ craft gymnastic themes ( presuming that's her main passion ) then 'frame ' them/ display them prominently with heaps of praise!
Other ideas are maybe help make/ bake/ create the families favourite treat.
The idea is for her to realise that she is great all around!
Good luck!

Our pedi's just happened to be at a perfect time in life! We spent the afternoon and it was just about us and her feeling special. No sibling, no pressure, just fun. We were able to talk and laugh. Thank you, a very good reminder that, even without gym time, we are rebuilding her confidence in herself. I work really hard on trying to find the good more than the bad.....some days that is just HARD. lol

Don't fall I to the trap,of thinking what happens at 6 and level 2 do not matter. They matter, A LOT. 6 is a key age in gymnastics. This is where she either falls in love with sport or decides its not for her.

I agree that this stuff matter, but like the post after yours, I meant more about competing and worrying about some of the small stuff. At this age, there is so much growing going on that things are a big deal.

I think if *you* don't think of not competing as a demotion and clearly explain to your daughter your concerns she may surprise you.

We had an abusive situation in a dance school. Not quite as bad as that, but almost. My daughter started saying "it's OK that she yells at us because she's not angry, she just wants us to do better"...
At the point when we left, I don't think it had affected her very much, me more than her, but it had reached an inexcusable level. I was watching first hand. I'd defended the teacher for a long time and when that line was crossed we absolutely couldn't stay.

Yes, you need to learn to work with difficult people, people you don't like etc. tolerance, work ethic etc. but abuse is abuse and leaving my child in that school would have set her up for a lifetime of 'abuse is OK'.

I was amazed at the maturity and perception that my 5 year old showed when I discussed the situation and a potential move. I hadn't intented to go into as much detail as I eventually did about my reasons, but she wanted to talk about it more and I was really impressed. There was a definite shift, almost a relaxing, a relief in her when she realised that there was another option and she didn't have to keep tolerating the situation.

My daughter will want a lot of details and want to know everything. I can be open and honest with her. There have been other things that we've had to explain that she may not like something, but it is in her best interest. She just may not realize it.

Based on Monday and the pattern of behavior previous to that, I would pull her ASAP. Not only is her behavior over the top and out of line, the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde thing is far from beneficial. I would be on pins and needles every day wondering which personality I was going to get. And favorite or not, you better believe that I would let the HC /owner know exactly why we were leaving on our way out the door. (Not in a mean way, but in a matter-of-fact, "hey, this woman is going damage your business unless you step in kind of way.)

My husband said the other day that it was a shame that this coach was going to be allowed to run this business into the ground.


Thank you again, everyone. Like I've said above, it isn't about her not being able to compete. That is a disappointment that she will certainly overcome and certainly not a deciding factor. Yes, you've worked hard for it, but right now it isn't what is best. It is going to come down to whether there has been enough of a negative conotation put on being moved back to preteam as a threat that it will also be harmful to her self-esteem. Like I wrote after, I believe, the first quote, will it be in her mind that we (her parents) and her new coaches don't believe in her and this current coach was right that she isn't good enough for team. I can tell her that it is not bad and is a great option all day long, but in the end perception is reality and I don't know how deep negative thoughts on this go. We are also working really hard on "you need to tell us honestly how you feel about (insert anything) and not just give the answer you think we want to hear." She wants to please and that is a good and bad thing in one.

So, next week will be the big search for a place. Dunno, if I don't hear from the one in the first of the week, I'll contact them again. If you can think of a couple others that may be decent options, please PM me. They may not be forever perfect, and it may have to be that we move again in a couple years....then so be it. That is better than what our circumstances are now. And....you know you love us "cray cray" parents, you just don't want to admit it.

I found this while searching...I thought it was pretty perfect - Gymsanity from a thread a while ago "You yell or humiliate when you have run out of constructive ideas, and your mental bank is bankrupt."
I may have to send that to the gym----a poster?!

 

[flippinam]

I know I'm jumping in a little late, but I felt the need to offer my personal experience. Leave & don't look back. I had a coach like that, and I almost quit because of her. Thankfully she moved out of state because there are no other clubs in my area, so I had to deal with it or quit. But after three years of her being my coach, I still have issues trusting my current coaches, who are great. Every time I had an injury, she accused me of faking it, and now, I have a complex that all coaches think I'm faking. I feel guilty any time I have to be out for an injury. I know my coaches know I'm not faking, but I always end up pushing myself until I'm physically unable to continue because I'm afraid to tell them. That coach also killed my self-confidence. Any time I said anything, she either turned my words around to make it sound like I had said something wrong or accused me of being stupid. I became so self conscious because of her and am often afraid to speak up in any situation. The effects from her have been lasting. The coach's belittling will hurt her confidence much more than moving back to preteam. I was much older than her (12-15) when I had that coach and it still harmed me. I can't even imagine being six years old and having to go through that.

 

[COz]

Ask her if she would be concerned. Talk to her about the options. Sounds like she is mature and intelligent enough to be part of the discussion, even if you have already made the decision.

I think that even if she was initially apprehensive about the pre-team label that she would quickly get over that once she was in a supportive environment with coaches that were actually decent people.

 

[GYM0M]

You are in control on the preteam aspect. I would most likely put my momma spin on it. "Hey, i have a surprise for you....I was going to wait until after competition season, but I'm so excited that I can't wait!!! You are gonna get to try out GymXYZ's preteam (throw in accomplishments, ya know, really build it up.) IF you make their preteam, you will get to train for higher level skills...blah blah blah. This teams preteam needs to sound better than her current team to your 6 year old. You encourage her to want THIS team's preteam.

 

[gymdog]

You are in control on the preteam aspect. I would most likely put my momma spin on it. "Hey, i have a surprise for you....I was going to wait until after competition season, but I'm so excited that I can't wait!!! You are gonna get to try out GymXYZ's preteam (throw in accomplishments, ya know, really build it up.) IF you make their preteam, you will get to train for higher level skills...blah blah blah. This teams preteam needs to sound better than her current team to your 6 year old. You encourage her to want THIS team's preteam.

I agree, at her current gym it sounds like they do preteam differently than at most gyms, at many gyms preteam is level 3 skills, but they just aren't ready to compete the full routines or might even be going to 4 the next year if they are older, etc. So I think if you explain it in a positive way and emphasize the skills she'll be learning that are higher than level 2, and once she tries it and realizes that, she will adapt very quickly.

 

[Alyssa S.]

Move her now. If the new gym doesn't compete level 2, there should be an appropriate preteam group for her to be part of. In the long run, her gymnastics will probably benefit more from not competing level 2 anyways. She'll get over not competing. It will be much harder for her to get over an abusive situation if she continues at the old gym.

Yes, as an initial reaction. But how does she know for sure that she's not jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire?

 

[rosettasmom]

She knows by doing her due diligence to the best of her abilities. Some things are clearly beyond control, but most coaches I've met will be very up front when asked about these things.

 

[gymdog]

Yes, as an initial reaction. But how does she know for sure that she's not jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire?

I don't know, what do you think? Does it seem like a normal level 2/ preteam to you in the description of the coaching? As a gymnastics professional, it would be great to know your thoughts on the likelihood of that.