Parents Opaque pre-team selection but bad rec program

[ORgymmom]

This is a variation on a million other questions about pre-team selection and questions about gym changes, so forgive me. My daughter is not yet in kindergarten and is in advanced rec classes and at the point where she is frustrated and wants more. I wasn’t a gymnast, but grew up in the Midwest where my friends at really competitive gyms just did open tryouts for their teams, so that’s all I know. I’ve since moved to the PNW so I don’t really know gym reputations here or have an idea of how things are supposed to work.

My daughter’s current gym appears to be fairly competitive for the region and has Level 9 and 10 gymnasts, although it doesn’t seem to send any athletes on to college. The older athletes appear happy and work hard. Both pre-team and Level 2 team athletes are advertised as being “hand-picked”, and the few girls I recognize who have joined the team from rec seem to be younger sisters of existing athletes, although I’m sure that can’t be everyone. The rec classes are mostly disorganized and coaches spend a lot of time managing behavior versus teaching strength or skills. My daughter is so frustrated, and even though we’ve been in a few different rec coaches this year because of changing levels and schedules, we can’t seem to find her a class without kids who have behavioral problems or with coaches who really care about rec.

This week did a trial class at another local gym with a very transparent pre-team and team policy, and they offered her a pre-team spot. The gym is more focused on fun and from what I can tell has just 2-3 athletes above level 6. The pre-team class was serious in a way that my daughter loved, and the coach was really clever in doing strength-building and working on the basics without making it obvious to the little girls that they were working quite hard. My daughter walked out looking so proud and energized.

I’m baffled by how the “more competitive” gym we’re currently at is finding girls to move up because no one seems to be learning anything in rec. I wouldn’t want to give up on what seems like a superior gym and better opportunities down the road, but I also feel badly (for example) that my daughter is missing turns because everyone has to freeze while one kids runs away or goofs around on an off-limits mat, or starting class 10 minutes late because the coach is just joking around with nearby parents without starting a warmup.

Do we stick it out at our current “competitive” gym and hope that my daughter somehow gets “hand-picked” from the chaos of the rec program, or go to the “fun” gym and worry about finding a stronger team later if it even becomes necessary?

 

[AlijahsMom]

Can you ask to be evaluated? We recently moved across the country and I specifically asked for my daughter to be evaluated for the advanced class after 2 rec classes.

 

[jillc]

Have you told your current gym that your DD is interested in something more serious than her current rec classes?

My DDs gym doesn’t have tryouts and the pre team is by invite only. While I have never heard this officially, seems like part of what her are looking for is family willingness for the craziness/commitment that is team.

Once I asked if they could evaluate my DD to move from her rec level, pre team was given as an option. But it also came with — here is the preteam schedule if she wants to join... with no alternative schedule if that didn’t work for us. And it wasn’t an ideal schedule for working parents —but we figured out how to make it work.

 

[ORgymmom]

I guess I could just ask, but I was afraid of looking pushy or second-guessing the way they do things. Move-up evaluations happen every 2 months for the rec program, but they’re very casual and from all the the conversations I’ve overheard they always seem to be along the lines of “so-and-so needs to keep working on their so-and-so skill but she’ll get it soon!”. My daughter has only moved up in rec because when we’ve had to change class times a coach has been nearby and said to the front desk, “oh, X is ready for Bouncing Bunnies!” (Not the real name, but you get the idea). I’ve noticed noticed that one rec coach seems to be the only one who ever gives explicit positive feedback to parents and gymnasts. It makes me wonder if that’s because he’s the gatekeeper? Or if he’s the only rec coach who is willing to deal with filling our paperwork and giving move-up feedback to the front office?

Thanks for giving me some things to think about.

 

[NutterButter]

I’m baffled by how the “more competitive” gym we’re currently at is finding girls to move up because no one seems to be learning anything in rec. I wouldn’t want to give up on what seems like a superior gym and better opportunities down the road, but I also feel badly (for example) that my daughter is missing turns because everyone has to freeze while one kids runs away or goofs around on an off-limits mat, or starting class 10 minutes late because the coach is just joking around with nearby parents without starting a warmup.

Are the L9/L10s at your current gym homegrown? You can look up a few on mymeetscores and see if they have always been at your gym or if they are attracting from other gyms. The attrition rate from L4 to L10 is very high and it takes a lot of L4's to have L10s five years or more down the road.

Otherwise, I would just tell your current gym that your DD has expressed interest in team and see what they say. Either your DD will or won't meet their criteria for preteam and then you can decide if you should move to the other gym. Some gyms have specific criteria for preteam so don't be discouraged if she is not invited...you already know that she's been invited by the other gym.

I really wish I had asked about preteam when my DD was young. I waited too long and my DD almost missed out entirely on JO.

 

[mommyof1]

My daughter was in a similar situation when she started in rec in kindergarten. The rec classes were a disorganized mess where no one was learning anything and behavior issues were rampant. Preteam selection was a mysterious process apparently controlled by one rec coach, who mentioned preteam after my daughter's very first class and then kept changing her mind. We stuck it out for eight months until she was finally put onto preteam. Then the preteam program also ended up being a disaster. We eventually switched gyms to a more organized program with a more transparent process. The entire family has been much happier at the more professionally run gym.

I would do two things: (1) let not just your daughter's rec coach, but also the front desk, gym owner, team manager, or whoever seems to run the place administratively, know that your daughter is interested in the team track; (2) observe an entire preteam practice at the current gym and the new gym. Preteam practice should be organized and focused on long-term development. They should be working drills that break down the skills, not just trying to do the entire skill. For example, if they are working BHS, they should be jumping backwards to land on a mat on their backs, not just doing a million spotted BHS. Multiple stations with different drills for the same skill are a good sign. You should also see a lot of handstand work and conditioning. Hollow-body holds on the floor, chin holds and L-hangs on the bar, pull-ups, rope climbs, etc. You should hear lots of specific corrections and see kids paying attention. You should also feel a positive energy--preteam is supposed to be hard work, but it's also supposed to be fun, especially in preschool preteam.

I would not waste time in rec classes that aren't fun and aren't teaching your daughter anything. At her age (4?) she doesn't necessarily need to be in preteam, but she needs to be enjoying herself and learning. A well-run rec class or a good preschool preteam program will give her that. I would choose the gym that provides what she needs now, which will not necessarily be the gym that's best for her at L3 or L7 or L10. A gym can have a solid preteam program that teaches good basics even if it doesn't produce high-level gymnasts. Conversely, a gym can be successful at the upper levels if it has a weak preteam and/or compulsory program but takes in a lot of transfers at the higher levels who have learned good basics elsewhere. (This last point is why people will tell you to look at whether a gym's upper-level gymnasts are "homegrown" if your child is preteam or compulsory.)

It is very common to switch gyms during preteam. I've also noticed that some gyms make it more straightforward to enter the team track as a transfer than to enter the preteam program from rec. Generally, if your kid is on team at one gym, you can have her evaluated to transfer to other gyms immediately after the state meet. Some gyms will evaluate preteam transfers at any time, and others will only add kids to preteam when they are forming a new group at the end of the season.

All of this goes to say: find the program that will work best for your child now, and move her later on if necessary. In preteam and between preteam and the first level of competition (L3 in many places), gym moves are not as big a deal as they can be later on.

 

[momnipotent]

I don’t think it will be an issue if you move her to the other gym for pre-team through level 6 (or even just 4 or 5) and then want to move back. I doubt that they will even remember she ever did rec at their gym by then and if they do, I don’t think they will care-it would be different if you were on team, changed gyms, and then wanted to come back. I don’t think there are many gyms who expect loyalty in their rec programs.

 

[jillc]

I guess I could just ask, but I was afraid of looking pushy or second-guessing the way they do things.

I completely felt the same way... I actually waited months in a class I knew was too easy for her before I asked.

I think there is a way to ask and demonstrate curiosity and interest and way to ask and look pushy and second-guessing. A question like, “I am just curious how pre-team selection works and if my DD might be a candidate at some point”. Sounds a lot better than “This class is out of control and I want her to be on pre-team because it would be less chaos.”.

Hopefully if you ask the first question you would find how who makes those decisions, and maybe a little about when and how they get made — and where your DD fits into all that. If the person you ask doesn’t seem very knowledgeable, ask someone else.

I think I got a little lucky both with who I asked (which was one of the main people who did rec and preteam evaluations) and when I asked (they had just made decisions on which pre team kids where moving to team, so they were ready for a new crop of pre team kids).

I was actually expecting they would just move her to a higher rec level that looked like a path to pre team, but they immediately recommended pre-team. She just finished a very successful season of level 4. I have no idea what would have happened if I never asked.

But of course, if you don’t like the answer and she isn’t having fun at the current gym. Then I wouldn’t stay there.

 

[reluctant]

Are the L9/L10s at your current gym homegrown? You can look up a few on mymeetscores and see if they have always been at your gym or if they are attracting from other gyms. The attrition rate from L4 to L10 is very high and it takes a lot of L4's to have L10s five years or more down the road.

Otherwise, I would just tell your current gym that your DD has expressed interest in team and see what they say. Either your DD will or won't meet their criteria for preteam and then you can decide if you should move to the other gym. Some gyms have specific criteria for preteam so don't be discouraged if she is not invited...you already know that she's been invited by the other gym.

I really wish I had asked about preteam when my DD was young. I waited too long and my DD almost missed out entirely on JO.

Is having homegrown L9/L10s considered to be a good thing or a bad thing?

 

[ORgymmom]

I checked past meet results at levels 8, 9, and 10 and it looked like the “competitive” gym’s gymnasts all started there at level 4 except for one girl who moved from an out-of-state team. So yes, all Level 9s and 10s at this gym are “homegrown”.

While I was checking that I noticed a few girls who had started at the “fun” gym moved to other competitive gyms in the area at levels 7 and 8.

 

[RTT2]

Is having homegrown L9/L10s considered to be a good thing or a bad thing?

I consider it a very good thing. They can coach from the early levels to the upper levels, and don't break the girls down, driving them out of the sport or to a different gym.

 

[NutterButter]

Is having homegrown L9/L10s considered to be a good thing or a bad thing?

Good thing as it indicates that the gym is not only capable of getting girls to the higher levels but also retaining those who started with them in compulsories.

 

[kris]

I would look at what is the best fit for your gymnast for now. She's still in pre-school. I wouldn't think too long and hard at where you want her to be 10 years from now. I would focus on who can give her the best training now. A gym that really breaks things down and ensures good habits from the beginning will serve your gymnast really well long term. Also, around here at least, it's pretty easy to move gyms as a high level optional (harder to get a gym to take you at say level 3 or 4, but much easier at 8, 9, 10), so if you decide that you need a change down the road, it might not be a big deal. Also, if you decide to stay at the current gym, I don't think asking how the pre-team process goes would be a bad idea. My gymmie was at a gym where there wasn't always a straight path from rec to pre-team. She had a team coach as a sub one day in her preschool rec class and they invited her to pre-team at the end of the class, where her current teacher hadn't even talked about moving her to the advanced rec class. I never would have guessed that's how it worked?!? Good luck. It's amazing to me how quickly things move from fun to serious in this sport.

 

[ORgymmom]

Thank you all for your gentle guidance! I was definitely a little startled to realize that things could escalate so quickly for a 4 year old. I will say that whatever activities she ends up doing, so much of the advice on here seems applicable to life and parenting in general and I hope I can be as level-headed as you all in the future!

 

[duyetanh]

Is having homegrown L9/L10s considered to be a good thing or a bad thing?

Good

 

[sce]

Is having homegrown L9/L10s considered to be a good thing or a bad thing?

A good thing. No harm in politely asking aout the path to pre-team/team and making sure they know she is interested.