Optimal Age To Begin Tops Training

[Shelovesthebars]

If the tops program is something that is an option for a gymnast, at what age is it optimal for a gymnast to start training tops? There seems to be some debate over what age is healthiest for a gymnast. Some say 5 or younger, some say 6 or older. What are the pros and cons for each?

 

[gymdog]

No younger than 5 for most of it (some could be okay if they can do it, but there's probably better stuff to do at that age to advance anyway). Because of the bridging stuff. But some of the 4-5 advanced classes I do, I have them do rope climb (but with legs at that age no matter how easy it is for them, a bit safer until they learn to come down well). Not over and over, but try it.

At 5 they could start some it, but I'm not sure they need intensive extra training yet. It would be better to wait until closer to the time they test, I think. 5 is still borderline to me in terms of body development, I think it is easier for them to get injured even if they're strong. In most cases it would be smart to wait until 6 for more intensive training, I think. This is firmly "school age" and they can benefit the most from it in all ways I think.

Personally, I think 7 and 8 are great ages. If it was me, selecting from my program progression, I would choose a group of 7-8 year olds. I know if they are 8 and haven't tested they've "missed a year" but those are the ages I would like.

 

[gymnut1]

Most pre team or team gymnastics programs will include most of the TOPS exercises in some form. So I wouldn't rush into it. I would chose a group of 6 to 7 year olds but it would be for a short time of training and low key. To me good form and correct technique are far more important at that age than the number of press handstands taught.

We don't have TOPS but our elite path includes a fifth piece at their competitions called 'range and conditioning' which ensures basics aren't ignored.

 

[starmaker]

Basically what I've seen at our last two gym that have a TOPS program, they start a general semi-intense conditioning program.

They work on just getting stronger, especially core strength. They work leg lifts, hollow holds, v-ups and rope with legs etc. Depending on how their strength develops they start working the actual skills like presses and handstand holds on a wall.

Liv didn't start working the official skills until right after her sixth birthday. I think starting at age six gives them the best shot. Starting at 8 years old is really hard for them to catch them up to 1 minute handstands holds and 10 presses. IMO the earlier the better assuming they have what it takes.

Yet again I've seen some start at 9 year old and pick up the skills rather quickly. It all depends on the gymmie and the program.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

7. //////////////////////////

 

[gymdog]

Liv didn't start working the official skills until right after her sixth birthday. I think starting at age six gives them the best shot. Starting at 8 years old is really hard for them to catch them up to 1 minute handstands holds and 10 presses. IMO the earlier the better assuming they have what it takes.

Well, I'd be assuming they were doing gymnastics before. I don't coach TOPs at all, but most of my more advanced compulsories can hold a handstand pretty well. We don't super focus on being able to hit it every time, since we're not testing, but this is a basic given for me, as with presses, because of the applicability to all events.

 

[Aussie_coach]

It depends what you are doing with them. If you are talking about doing all the TOPs exercises the way they are prescribed for testing then I would say wait until the child is 6. But a good coach can do modified preparation with 4-5 year olds. It is important to develop TOPs type strength and flex at an early age to ensure that when they are learning skills they do so safely and successfully.

However, the coach needs to be very aware of child development and the individual abilities of every child. They need to keep a close eye on all the exercises to make sure they are done safely and properly. If a coach doesn't have these expertise its better not to do it.

 

[grizzoline]

Well, I'd be assuming they were doing gymnastics before. I don't coach TOPs at all, but most of my more advanced compulsories can hold a handstand pretty well. We don't super focus on being able to hit it every time, since we're not testing, but this is a basic given for me, as with presses, because of the applicability to all events.

Exactly, at a decent gym, it's not so much a question of when to start tops but when to start serious training. Obviously there is a difference when you're testing and due to greater training times those girls should be better, but you regular gymnastics conditioning should lead to a girl to be able to do semi well right away. In the end, Tops is just a means to ensure proper condititioning, (especially for those coaches with less experience in the elite stream, though other, very experienced gyms choose to do it, too)

And to the UK poster in this thread: I LOVE R&C. It's so HARD but it looks amazing if done well. It's much more dynamic than tops which is really important for the artistic side of gym. Just doing leg lifts and split is not the same as showing of your splits in a HS, both ways, standing leg holds in all directions. Actually I'm very fond of the UK elite development track in general.

 

[gymnut1]

I love it too. Even our club grades and national grades (a sort of inbetween club and elite stream) have their own versions. I am already working preparations for the handstand split holds, leg holds and presses with my 6 year old pre elite group. My fave r & C are the ones on benches. Wow those are hard. When done well they are beautiful.

 

[gymdog]

I have seen some videos of the UK style one on youtube. It looks very interesting. What level does it start in the competitive system? It seemed like some of the videos I saw, the girls were fairly advanced, maybe like level 6 (RO BHS BT on floor level). What are some of the skills it starts with?

 

[MissBear]

The set of competitions called grades are run once a year. There are 3 separate streams; regional grades, national grades and elite grades.
If you are not intending on following the elite pathway you take grades 14 and 13, then continue to 12 - 9 (regional grades) or 8 - 5 (national grades). The regional grades progress more slowly and are aimed at gymnasts training less hours, as grades are intended to be taken at 1 a year.

Grades 14 and 13 have the same Range and Conditioning. This is: Forwards roll to pike sit (heels off floor), box splits, japana swim through, pike fold. Then Tucked planche hold and Straddle 1/2 lever on the end of a bench (2 seconds), both splits, bridge kickover. These grades mainly use conditioning exercises instead of skills, especially in bars. The minimum age is 8 in year. YouTube - Luna's Grade 14 Gymnastics Competition

National grades 8 - 5 all have the same Range and Conditioning. This is: Backward walkover to split handstand hold, join legs and pike down. Pike lift to handstand hold, 1/2 turn to split handstand and step down. Forward roll to straddle 1/2 lever, lower. Japana swim through, push to front support. Right splits, left splits, bridge kickover. Minimum age is 10 in year. The equivalent skills range from about USAG level 6 for grade 8 (easier bars) to about level 8/9 for grade 5. YouTube - Amber Jackson gymnast. National club grade 8. Range and conditioning (Big deduction for the turn being more that 2 hand placements)

Elite grades (often called levels) are from 4 - 2, then Espoir, Junior, Senior. Up to Espoir has R and C, so this is from 9 in year to 13 in year. These have a different R and C for each level. You can see grade 4 and 3 here YouTube - teamsparkle1's Channel and espoir here British Gymnastics - Espoir AA Finals 2010 These routines are really difficult. The grades themselves start fairly easily with BWO on beam at 9, Giants at 10, but then get much harder with front and back giants and clear to handstand, as well as front tuck walk out round off flic full by age 11 in year. These gymnasts are the best in the country and are aiming for the elite level.

It's quite an essay to explain, but I hope that makes sense. Yes, I love the elite pathway a lot too.

 

[gymdog]

Very interesting! Thanks for taking the time to explain so we understand better. So, if a gymnast passes through the 5th grade, do they all go into the same stream for elite grades? I guess I am trying to understand, here we would put many kids in L10 (or tracked for there) but not elite, so a very high level with many high level skills but the performance standard is not quite the same as with elite obviously. But I realize in other countries it is different largely because JO levels are a big feeder for a fairly large intercollegiate (NCAA) program.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

Teamsparkle has some amazing videos. It is really neat to watch and the range and conditioning is phenomenal.

 

[MissBear]

Once you have finished Grade 5 there are no more grades and you are at least 13 years old, so set skills as set progressions are not normally needed. You would not do grades competitions any more, but compete perhaps in more invitations, regional and county championships.
I do think there are lots of gymnasts who would be level 9 or 10 in the US that end up competing with the elite stream in most competitions, but don't qualify for the British Champs so aren't considered 'elite'. But also, the lower end of our elites would probably be in the JO program in the USA as the US has stricter requirements for elite gymnasts (at junior and senior level anyway).
I think its unlikely a NCAA program would ever be feasible here, but I would like to see more gymnasts from the UK going to the USA for the program, as Marissa King has done.

I'm sorry for taking this thread so off topic!