WAG Physiology of strength building

[Muddlethru]

If a gymnast exhibits strength as a young child, does that always mean they will also be strong gymnasts as teens or adults? Given two gymnasts of the same age, say a TOPS gymnast who can perform the physical abilities test and a gymnast who can't do them nearly as well, as they continue to train in identical fashion, is it likely the gap between the strength of the two gymnasts remain the same or can the weaker gymnast all of a sudden get stronger and the stronger gymnast plateau. Is there a standard or age by which natural strength can be determined?

If at age 9 you cannot hold a handstand for 30 secs, climb a rope without legs or do press to handstands, tire more easily than the top gymnasts, could the strength come a little later because of physical make up? My youngest daughter shows some strenght but not nearly as much as her older sister at the same age but on the skills front the gap is not as big. My youngest is actually smaller and much lighter in weight than her older sister at the same age. I am thinking maybe it is her smaller size and weight that is making her do more skills but she really is lacking in strength.

In my effort to try to explain myself better, my thread keeps getting longer and longer. And I realize I may be making it worse. So, I will leave it as such.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

strength is only 1 component of gymnastics. don't get caught in the smoke and mirrors of any kind of strength testing or physical abilities. at the end of the day, and don't get me wrong cause gymnasts must be strong, if they can't do gymnastics all the strength in the world won't have mattered. understand?

 

[sglemon]

Our coach always tells us, gymnastics is 1% strength and 99% mind. My current gymnast didn't start out strong. She had no upper body strength. Our gym does not train TOPS. She cannot hold a handstand, consistently for 30 sec. She has learned to climb a rope with no legs and can't do a presshand stand from sitting, but consistently score aboved 37.7 AA, scored above 9.5 on all the apparatus in level 4. Her level 5 skills are gorgeous. Does she want to go to the olympics? No. She doesn't even want to do gymnastics above level 7. She is enjoying it now. It gives her a huge advantage over her peers, in everything she does outside the gym, both physically and mentally. Gymnasts come in all shapes and sizes, as long as they are enjoying it, why worry?

 

[BlairBob]

There are a lot of factors to consider.

Recovery which is basically rest (sleep) and dietary intake.

Frequency of training.

Genetics

Guts factor so they can push themselves during training.


You'd be surprised what can be done by altering dietary intake, recovery, and an altered training program.

Smaller size can sometimes means less muscle which means less cross sectional muscle. This is more of an issue with max strength, especially toward mature males.

As Dunno stated, Strength&Conditioning is just "Assistance" work to competitive gymnastics. It might be foundational but it won't surpass technique or repetition. Definitely in the long run.

 

[ARKGYMMOM]

I am NOT a coach but I can tell you from personal experience that my DD did not start gym till she was 8. She started in a rec program for about 3 months and moved to level 4 then level 5 the following year. She is now testing out of 6 and doing level 7 this season. Most of the girls that she is working out with have been doing gymnastics since they were 4 and she is out doing most of them. I think given the right girl/boy, drive and fearlessness you can overcome anything "strong" or not. BTW she is only 10 now.

 

[Muddlethru]

Thanks for your responses dunno, sglmone, arkgymmom. Your posts are appreciated. And blairbob, I thanks for the info. Even though I related my question to gymnastics, I was more interested in the getting the answers your provided (i.e., smaller size means less cross sectional muscle, etc.) I think the answers I was looking for was more complex than I want it to be. Thanks again.

 

[BlairBob]

Since the younger daughter has been training less it also means she would be less efficient at recruiting motor units to perform various actions than the older daughter.

Strength is not just muscle, it's related to developing the CNS in tandem with muscle (glycogen stores, cross sectional strength).

 

[Muddlethru]

thanks blairbob. An avid marathon runner suggested i read a book "Advanced Marathoning by Pfitznger. It is a science-based training for runners. It is a great book. It provided me with some info on VO2 max, glycogen stores, lactate threshold, fast and slow twitch, etc., ways to shave minutes off my time and train smarter and remain injury free (I suffered a stress fracture on my hip at a marathon.) Are there any good books on science-based gymnastics training or anything closely related? I am not going to practice on my kids. I am just a firm believer of education.

 

[iwannacoach]

Are there any good books on science-based gymnastics training or anything closely related? I am not going to practice on my kids. I am just a firm believer of education.

You could look up Bill Sands through the USECA website.

or......

I used to get training journals and theory papers from the USSR, translated of course, and they were a little easier to read. You might be able to track them down on the internet.

 

[ivyagogo]

Very timely thread. One of the girls I work with at our rec team wants to try out for the varsity team at school. Since she is only in 7th grade, they have to pass a bunch of physical tests to even try out. One of the tests is a flex arm hang for 20 seconds and she is really struggling with it. It seems really pointless to me, but if she can't do it, she won't even be able to try out. If she makes the team, she will most likely only compete beam and a front handspring vault. She is quite duck-footed and tumbling doesn't come very easy for her. Anyway, I think the test is in like two weeks and we are trying to get her to work three sets of chin ups every other day as many as she can. She can do all the other components (long jump, sit ups, shuttle run, etc). I am hoping that adrenaline will carry her through the test.

 

[BlairBob]

Since her test is merely the flex arm hang test it that makes it easy to train for her.

She does not have to train pullups right now.

I would use Pavel's Grease the Groove method. This uses a lot of volume at low intensity. It also trains the CNS to be very efficient because it uses a lot of reps/holds.

Test her max hold. Now cut that in half and use that as the length of hold she performs. Now do that 10-20 times a day.

Back off a bit if it's too much for her to recover. Perhaps 2 days in a row, 3rd day off. Or MT normal, Wed light, THF normal, Sa light, Sun off. Or perhaps WeSa days off, Sun light. I think you get the idea.

As for her duck feet, she probably needs some corrective exercise for her hips and lower body. Have her see a PT since obviously something is wrong. More than likely some weak muscles somewhere in the chain.

 

[ivyagogo]

BlairBob - Thanks for the advice. As for her feet, she can practically turn her legs completely around. It's pretty gross.