WAG Question about pits at gyms

[gymdog]

Honestly I do not know of any "big" optional programs in the US that don't have some form of pits such as resi, above ground pit, or port-a-pit that can be used for safety and to reduce impact. 95+% of such programs have an in-ground pit nowadays. And if they don't have a full loose foam pit with bars, vault, and tumbling, they actively seek out opportunities once in awhile to go to camps or visit gyms that do have them. That's the reality, whether it's "possible" or not. It's possible, but not the best, safest, and easiest way. The industry standard at this time is to use pits at this level. It is no longer the 70s and gymnastics has evolved in many ways since then.

Some extremely talented gymnasts, it might not make a difference for them, sure, I suppose we can come up with many conceivable hypothetical scenarios. For most gymnasts, NEVER working with a pit will make a difference in a negative way (i.e. they will not learn as much). If your child's optional program does not have a loose foam pit but regularly uses resis and they go to places where they do work with a pit, then they are getting some of those benefits and that will make the situation tenable...on the other hand they could do more reps with less spotting if they had more pits available for daily training. So it isn't ideal but it is possible with planning, using resis and port-a-pits, and finding opportunities to use other pits.


That's different than saying "you don't need pits, it doesn't make a difference." Obviously it does, or we wouldn't have brought this EXPENSIVE (but worth it) concept to the vast majority of high level programs in the US over the last couple of decades. You might have noticed that in 2012 the US had a killer vaulting team. Progress, man.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

Our gym has no space for a pit, and we live on an island so the cost of bringing in an above ground pit even if we had the space would be enormous! Digging an inground pit is more problematic - especially as our gym is on the second floor!

The gym would need to move to a new facility (bigger, more rent) and then look at their options. Right now there is no affordable location to move to (the owner and I talk about this from time to time - I am on the Gymnastics Association's Executive Committee and we are always talking about how to improve things). Some clubs just can't manage a pit right now. Our gym also can't manage to get any girls past level 8. We have had a couple of elite men, but one did his elite training overseas when he went to college and the other is an event specialist only training I think 3 events, and he also trains overseas a few months of the year. It's hard to train high levels without the pit, especially if you don't have coaches that can spot adult sized gymnasts! DD's coach has finally gotten enough junior coaches that she can start her team with younger/lower level gymnasts, and she's now getting some smaller kids to optionals. That means she can still spot them. When they get bigger she can no longer spot them safely.

Our gym has 2 pits, and to the untrained eye (=mine) it looks as if they are just square boxes built on top of the floor, with wide carpeted walls. Wide enough walls to walk on one is built next to the raised vault track with a big tramp on one end and a customizable bar set up on top, no special stairs for that one since the area is already raised. The other one is next to a big tramp and has boxy carpeted stairs as the other 2 "walls", the fourth side has a climbing rock wall. My point is they look as if they could honestly be built pretty easily by a carpenter or even handy parents. Then just order the foam cubes! Could be something to think about....

 

[AmandaLynn]

The foam blocks are quite expensive themselves... And shipping them overseas would probably be a huge expense. And, unless you have covered blocks, the get squished and disintegrate and you constantly have to throw away the old blocks and refill with new ones.

Pits are much more expensive to maintain than you would think.

 

[JBS]

Above ground pits are very easy to build...you just need space and height.

You can see one in the background of this photo...

Link Removed

 

[Bajanswife]

I think height is an issue too. We have a pointed roof (typical of our warehouses), and the only place we can do high bar giants, for example, is along the dead center of the room where the ceiling is tallest. Adding an above-ground pit would require an entire re-design of the gym equipment, which isn't necessarily impossible - it would just take an expert to visualize what could be done and how much it would cost. I do know space would be tight, and maybe the gym owner would prefer to make that sort of investment in a bigger facility where she can really make it work.

 

[Brandon]

and he was wrong about not having pits in the 70's too. they were called caskets...

I do believe I said 'widely used'.

Obviously I'm in the minority here but I stand by my opinion. Pits aren't a huge deal, especially at her age, and coaching is more important. But hey, just my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[iwannacoach]

Would somebody please pass the salt!!!!!

 

[Brandon]

Would somebody please pass the salt!!!!!

Well that was a nice, thoughtful reply relating to the topic at hand..?

 

[JBS]

Pits aren't a huge deal

I've put money in the tip jar after watching the street tumbler do a double back...
...but it doesn't mean I'm taking the springs out of the floor.

It's possible to swim to Hawaii...
...but it's faster to take a jet.

It may be possible to train some super freak of nature kid to modern elite standards with no pit...
...but pits are still a HUGE deal.

I graduated high school in 1996...I've never trained without a loose foam pit...resi pit...inground trampolines...and overhead spotting rigs. In my lifetime...I have never been without these things...so I do not understand.

 

[JBS]

I'm without a rod floor right now (and for the past seven years)...huge problem. Just because I've been able to work around this issue...doesn't mean I couldn't do more...quicker...safer...with it.

 

[iwannacoach]

I do believe I said 'widely used'.

Obviously I'm in the minority here but I stand by my opinion. Pits aren't a huge deal, especially at her age, and coaching is more important. But hey, just my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt.

Well there was this promising gymnast named Gary Morava. He was a competent gymnast and was obviously being trained by a very good coach. You know, the good coaching you say is more important than a pit, to which I agree, but in no way can good coaching alone make this sport as safe as Gary would have wished.

Competition Results

1970
Illinois High School Championships: 1st AA, 2nd FX, 2nd HB

1971
USA-ROM Dual Meet: 2nd Team, 4th AA
USGF Championships: 1st V

1972
US Olympic Trials: 11th AA

1973
NCAA Championships: 3rd AA, 3rd FX, 6th PB
University Games: 6th Team, 15th AA
USA-CHN Dual Meet: 2nd Team, 6th AA
USA-ROM Dual Meet: 2nd AA
USA-SUI Dual Meet: 2nd Team, 12th AA
USGF Championships: 2nd AA, 1st V, 2nd PB, 2nd HB, 3rd PH, 5th FX

1974
Mardi Gras Invitational: 5th AA
USA-POL Dual Meet: 2nd Team, 2nd AA

The timeline of Gary's accomplishments stops in 1974 when Gary Morava suffered an accident in gymnastics that took his life. As a scholarship athlete at Southern Illinois University, he had been warming up on a mini-trampoline, trying to complete a 2¾
tuck somersault.

He hit his head on the landing, which severed his spinal chord. His death devastated the family and the local gymnastics scene, which saw him as a favorite to make the Pan American Games that year and the 1976 Olympic team.

Really. Do you want to see people die to help you uphold your point. I certainly doubt it, as much as I doubt you'll ever find a volunteer to land head first on a 24" resi or a stack of 8 inch mats. When, if you should care to look, you find a volunteer for that test, I'll know you've got a knack for finding idiots that don't understand the risks inherent in this sport.

Please don't counter with some feeble statement that it's not your fault that people take risks because among the brightest of athlete's and coaches, there will always be the rare instance that something goes totally wrong, or that a risk that wasn't remotely apparent get's overlooked. I can assure you that Gary thought he was doing something safe. I mean really, he thought he was only warming up..... how dangerous is that??????

The truth of the matter is..... stuff happens, and I doubt you'll want just a couple of 8 inch mats under you and a coach screaming noooo if stuff happens to you. I hope like hell it doesn't, but you fit to a 'T' the profile of a person who just could think they're safe when they aren't. Or maybe it just seems that way because of the way you tell parents.....

She's still a good 4-5 years away from even thinking about using one anyway. So I would not factor it into the discussion process very much.

You likely just insulted that child's coach. That's how I'd feel if you told me I couldn't get a kid with a decent ro bhs up to twisting doubles in the span you've given as the.... no way, don't worry.

As far as taking it with a grain of salt is concerned. I'll grant you one grain of getting it right..... a good coach is more important than a pit, because a good coach will stay away from skills where pits are useful, and limit their program to skills they can teach while spotting each child, one at a time, while every one else stands in line or is off working on a safe skill without the benefit of their coach's attention.

That's the grain.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

you have no idea just how close to home you hit with Gary...(tears welling up in Dunno's eyes)

 

[Deleted member D3987]

thought you would want to know this . in the hospital room, and moments before Gary passed on, Gary passed the torch in his USA National Team Warm Up Suit/Uniform on to Bart Conner who was present in the room. it was a very sad day for us all.

 

[iwannacoach]

About a week Gary's death I had tried a 7/4 off a springboard onto a 12" safety mat and made it, but had a bit of scalp burn from brushing so hard during the landing. It occurred to me when hearing the news about Gary, including his dying wishes, that it could just as likely been me.

I know enough about your history from posts that start "back in the day...." to understand how you felt. I could see and hear some of those emotions at NCAA's that year.........

A sad day and a sad year.

 

[Deleted member 15064]

um, may i have a coach volunteer that i can PM about this subject? thank you...

 

[Deleted member D3987]

um, may i have a coach volunteer that i can PM about this subject? thank you...

yes.

 

[raenndrops]

Our gym does not have a pit, but then again, we don't have gymnasts above Level 8 right now. We rent our facility and are moving to a bigger one next month - still with no pit. The owners of the new building almost stopped the whole thing because of needing to drill into the floor for the bars. They ended up coming to our current gym to see that it is not a big deal - it wont mean giant holes in the floor or bolts sticking up or anything... but there is NO WAY they would approve digging out a pit!
When our girls want to work harder skills, there are 3 gyms within 30 miles that regularly have open gym times. They can go there... work on in ground trampolines, trench bars, and use the pits. These pits and the trampoline have made it safer for younger gymmie to work front and back tucks (competed 2 yrs old L4 and chose to compete new L3 this season)... although she is actually closer to a layout than a tuck. Older gymmie got her RO BHS BT back and is working on twisting. She is also working on a front pike / layout and a back layout. She has regained confidence in her skills and has decided that AFTER this season, she will move up to Xcel Platinum... which she was not even willing to consider in July / August.
Her coaches are great, but having the availability of a pit on occasion has helped her get the reps in (even with a little ankle problem from dodge ball at school that has kept her from throwing her skills on the floor at the gym for the last 2 weeks).

 

[Brandon]

I've put money in the tip jar after watching the street tumbler do a double back...
...but it doesn't mean I'm taking the springs out of the floor.

It's possible to swim to Hawaii...
...but it's faster to take a jet.

It may be possible to train some super freak of nature kid to modern elite standards with no pit...
...but pits are still a HUGE deal.

I graduated high school in 1996...I've never trained without a loose foam pit...resi pit...inground trampolines...and overhead spotting rigs. In my lifetime...I have never been without these things...so I do not understand.

I suppose a large amount of it depends on what you're used too. You've always been around these things and are used to them and their benefits. I haven't, so I've learned to safely work without them.

 

[JBS]

I suppose a large amount of it depends on what you're used too. You've always been around these things and are used to them and their benefits. I haven't, so I've learned to safely work without them.

Yes...but you don't think you could do more with them?

 

[Brandon]

Well there was this promising gymnast named Gary Morava. He was a competent gymnast and was obviously being trained by a very good coach. You know, the good coaching you say is more important than a pit, to which I agree, but in no way can good coaching alone make this sport as safe as Gary would have wished.

Competition Results

1970
Illinois High School Championships: 1st AA, 2nd FX, 2nd HB

1971
USA-ROM Dual Meet: 2nd Team, 4th AA
USGF Championships: 1st V

1972
US Olympic Trials: 11th AA

1973
NCAA Championships: 3rd AA, 3rd FX, 6th PB
University Games: 6th Team, 15th AA
USA-CHN Dual Meet: 2nd Team, 6th AA
USA-ROM Dual Meet: 2nd AA
USA-SUI Dual Meet: 2nd Team, 12th AA
USGF Championships: 2nd AA, 1st V, 2nd PB, 2nd HB, 3rd PH, 5th FX

1974
Mardi Gras Invitational: 5th AA
USA-POL Dual Meet: 2nd Team, 2nd AA

The timeline of Gary's accomplishments stops in 1974 when Gary Morava suffered an accident in gymnastics that took his life. As a scholarship athlete at Southern Illinois University, he had been warming up on a mini-trampoline, trying to complete a 2¾
tuck somersault.

He hit his head on the landing, which severed his spinal chord. His death devastated the family and the local gymnastics scene, which saw him as a favorite to make the Pan American Games that year and the 1976 Olympic team.

Really. Do you want to see people die to help you uphold your point. I certainly doubt it, as much as I doubt you'll ever find a volunteer to land head first on a 24" resi or a stack of 8 inch mats. When, if you should care to look, you find a volunteer for that test, I'll know you've got a knack for finding idiots that don't understand the risks inherent in this sport.

Please don't counter with some feeble statement that it's not your fault that people take risks because among the brightest of athlete's and coaches, there will always be the rare instance that something goes totally wrong, or that a risk that wasn't remotely apparent get's overlooked. I can assure you that Gary thought he was doing something safe. I mean really, he thought he was only warming up..... how dangerous is that??????

The truth of the matter is..... stuff happens, and I doubt you'll want just a couple of 8 inch mats under you and a coach screaming noooo if stuff happens to you. I hope like hell it doesn't, but you fit to a 'T' the profile of a person who just could think they're safe when they aren't. Or maybe it just seems that way because of the way you tell parents.....



You likely just insulted that child's coach. That's how I'd feel if you told me I couldn't get a kid with a decent ro bhs up to twisting doubles in the span you've given as the.... no way, don't worry.

As far as taking it with a grain of salt is concerned. I'll grant you one grain of getting it right..... a good coach is more important than a pit, because a good coach will stay away from skills where pits are useful, and limit their program to skills they can teach while spotting each child, one at a time, while every one else stands in line or is off working on a safe skill without the benefit of their coach's attention.

That's the grain.

Of course I don't want to see people die to uphold my point and the fact that you even mention a persons death to make your own point is insulting.

Here's my 'feeble statement'. He tried a double flipping rollout skill. What more do I even need too say? Also keep in mind you're talking about an extremely elite level gymnast. He would benefit from pits. A child that isn't doing layouts yet isn't.

As far as me fitting the profile of someone who would just chuck skills unsafely: don't act like you know me from a few posts on the Internet. I've been without pits for most of my gymnastics career and my coaches have shown me how to SAFELY work without them. I've done more basics than anyone I know. I train drills and do more prep work than most people that have pits do, because I have too. Again, this shows my point: pits are helpful but not a necessity and don't make a big deal at her age.

Lastly, the comment about the progression time. If you need a pit to learn double fulls, you're dependent on them. Twisting really isn't dangerous, especially with a good spotter present. Pits start being truly helpful when you start double flipping and double flipping while twisting.