Recruiting coaches-ethics?

[10.0]

Never going to happen trip, that is infringing on a person's rights. I do think coaches who leave and especially solicit students to go as well is completely wrong and I think like I said in my other posts speaking with an attorney and drawing up a contract as a condition of employment is fine and I suppose if you wanted to add your thing about the coach having to pay if they left, if that is even legal you could try it but as your old coaches leave or retire I don't see many new ones signing on under that contract, I certainly would not. What if you come in sign this contract work there for 9 miserable months because your boss is awful and the way you are asked to coach is wrong and everything possible that can be bad about it is. Is it really fair for that employee to pay a grand to leave an awful place of employment? And trust me I have been at a gym like that. As a matter of fact I have had plenty of non coaching jobs like that, if I had to give them all a grand I would be broke. And sometimes things are just not a good fit, same for the kids. Like I said I do think too many leave for stupid reasons that they were too chicken to address with the owner but for some the gym is just not a good fit. In both cases I think proper leaving etiquette should happen, kids should say their goodbyes without telling the team where they are heading and coaches should do the same.

 

[CoachGoofy]

Only gymnastics.

Seriously. Where else would someone SERIOUSLY suggest that an employee has to pay to leave? There are bad bosses in every industry, including ours. Sometimes the mats really are bluer. No one should be penalized for doing what is best for them. And no one should have to crawl through a mile and a half of red tape to take care of their needs, either.

What is talked about in the first post is shady, sure. But most gym switches AREN'T. Kids sometimes follow favorite coaches, and that is normal. Coaches move on for a number of boringly unshady reasons. Also normal. If under usual circumstances a gym owner can't keep coaches or kids, they need to do some serious soul searching. A good gym doesn't need some Bureau Of Making Everything Too Difficult to keep coaches. And a bad one certainly doesn't deserve a cash reward (keep in mind, we do this for love, not the high pay, and we DO have to eat) for sucking.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

USAG will never, and is not legally allowed, to dictate policy to private business owners. Ideas are great, but this is something that will never happen.

This is an issue that has been around since the advention of private clubs. Unfortunately, I believe it will still be a problem long after I've gone fishing...

 

[bookworm]

I am reading these posts by Triptwister and wondering if he/she is actually serious? I can't imagine anyone signing on under the conditions posted AND if such a "contract" would be enforceable if the person left. I still say this all goes back to the why ...why do the coaches or the gymnast want to leave? As one poster said, it happens all the time for different reasons but i don't think mandating and fining are the solutions. And if Trip was going to fire a coach, would he/she pay them to leave?

 

[triptwister]

I do not wonder why this problem of gym hopping exists. Nor do I wonder why it won't go away. Look at the answers here in this thread. Do nothing. Say nothing. See half and deny the rest.

A review of the gym's history 10.0 would have given you a head's up before you made the grievous mistake of working for them. But your consequence for incompetent choices should be paid. You owe a thousand dollars per year of employment to the gym you quit enforced by the governing agency or UNION of Gymnastics Organizations that you agreed to obey. You must now wait a year to gain new employment. You will be much wiser for the wear.

The governing agency will be endorsed by USAG. The better business bureau of gymnastics organizations will have detailed records of coach employment history as well as gymnastics organizations history. Both employees and employers will be protected and have the tools to make educated and secure decisions. All interests will be protected.

If a system were in place 10.0, then you would be able to prevent working for awful places of employment. People like you would have filled out forms that would have remained on record about that bad gym and other people like you could avoid gainful employment with that gym.

Bottom line...NO GYM HOPPING by students or coaches. But if it occurs, then there are guidelines to follow and consequences to pay.

This is about transparency, accountability, integrity, fair play, and responsibility.

We can't go on like this. We can't leave things the way they have been. We must do something. Lets form a union. Lets make this happen.

Likewise if an employer is going to fire you then he will have to file a statement to remain on record about it. Then he will have to pay you a thousand dollars per year of employment. A fired employee will not be subject to a waiting period before gainful new employment. Best to comport yourself in such a manner that you do not get yourself fired. Other organizations may not want to hire you if you have a tainted record. Your employer will think twice before letting you go if you have been with him for ten years. But if he does let you go then I'm sure it would be for a good bad reason. Do you see how this system will have its own checks and balances? Wake up peeps.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

like i said, ideas are great. but this won't happen in my lifetime. the diversity of laws alone that exist from state to state would make this impossible even if clubs were unionized.

example: how a teacher gets hired/fired in california will not be the same for new york. the concepts are the same union to union, state to state, but how those concepts are supported and ruled by law are different from state to state.

and asking usag to involve themselves in something like this? never. it would be to far afoot from what their charter from the usoc says they must do.

and i'm paraphrasing, but their job is to provide athletes and national teams in gymnastics to represent the USA in competition. that's it! heck, they never envisioned the things that they must do today.

everyone thinks that USAG is some big organization. we are an organization of volunteers at every level and every state. without the volunteers the entire system would collapse upon itself. there are approx 12 key people in the national office. the rest are really peripheral employees that do things like registering athletes. and publishing the magazine. they really operate on a shoestring.

this entire topic is overly complex for anything that usag would ever attempt to grapple. it is what it is.

 

[triptwister]

If I would have listened to all the reasons about why we can't then I wouldn't have been an elite coach in my time. Why we can't is not acceptable. USAG doesn't have to be involved. Just agree with NO GYM HOPPING and endorse the stoic souls that have the chauvinist temperament to make this happen.

 

[CoachGoofy]

"Gym hopping" is sometimes the only option. If your choice is to leave where you are, or leave the sport altogether, someone is Doing It Wrong.

Signed,
My old boss didn't know anything about gym and had unsafe equipment and didn't listen to his employees or customers and was thoroughly unavailable if there was a question or concern, so I went (without being 'recruited') to the bluer mat where the Powers That Be have a clue and give a flying fajita and know that good staff makes a good program, and would do it again in a heartbeat

 

[triptwister]

You see what I mean? With a system in place then what happened to 10.0 and CoachGoofy would be prevented. Gym hopping would be a horrible memory from times when gymnastics was in the dark ages. You are another good example of bad decisions caused by a lack of illuminating information.

With a system in place you would have filed a report and that bad gym would be on record for the next CoachGoofy to read about and think twice before asking for employment.

Gym hopping is no option. If it happens at all it should be for growth and advancement. Not for covering your mistakes, or for spite, or be an event that hurts the interests of the organization you left.

Lets put a stop to gym hopping. That it exists says it all.

Lets not have any more of this rationale where we defend keeping things the way they are. Something needs to be done. So lets get busy and do it.

If a gym knows it can build a dubious reputation and not get away with it then they will be forced by the system to build an honorable, viable program. Bad gyms should not come into existence in the first place. All programs should meet set standards of practice set by the expert governing body and follow a protocol that is consistent and copied throughout the industry. We should protect our industry. We should control our industry. We should insure that our industry works to benefit all interests.

Helter skelter is not a good way to build an industry.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

Triptwister, I think you're contradicting yourself. In one breath, you say NO GYM hopping, then in the next, you say it should be for "growth and advancemnet."

Yes, it's for "growth and advancement" on both the part of coaches AND the gymnasts.

This is the USA... bottom line, you will not stop people from doing what they want to do.

 

[triptwister]

Lets redefine gym hopping, Tumlequeensmom. That way we can leave a recourse open for gym hopping and it won't be the nemesis that it is. Gym hopping will no longer be a reaction to a bad situation nor will it ever, hurt the interests of the organization you leave. Deal?

Step one is admission. Admit there is a problem. Admit the error of your ways. Take responsibility for your bad, erroneous, regretful, actions. Admit that the problem exists.

Step two is analyze the problem.

Step three is find solutions.

Step four is implement the plan.

Step five is persevere and adapt.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

This thread is going nowhere. You refuse to believe that there could be a genuine coaching/ownership issue.

 

[bookworm]

And to add to Tumblequeen's response, I can't believe any court would allow a gym (or any other business) to prevent someone from making a living by having to adhere to the conditions that Trip proposes...bottom line, I can shop at CVS, Walmart, Nordstrom' s or Macy's...my choice ...same thing with gyms, I am the consumer so it's MY choice where to spend my money.

 

[gymnastgets10]

Also, everyone is different. A gymnast might love one coach and learn so much from him, while another gymnast might never get along with the same coach and never learn anything. This gymnast should have a right to go to different gyms and find coaches that work with her personality without being tracked by a national organization and paying a fine. Same if the coach doesn't get along with the owner - he has a right to find a boss he is comfortable working under, even though no one else likes that boss.

 

[ginnymac]

It would seem from trips posts that he would prefer a communist type gymnastics system. No need to worry, his idea would never fly here.

 

[triptwister]

Anyone who has hopped from one gym to another is a victim or has victimized the gym that invested in you. You may be a victim of your own poor choices. We need to minimize these events.

Gym hopping is hurtful. Irresponsible. Usually your fault. Stop it.

Offer solutions as I have done. Otherwise get out of the way. You are part of the problem. Letting things stay the way they are is a cop out. I don't appreciate that kind of attitude. Great coaches solve problems and demand to be privy to them. But this situation is bigger than any one person. We need a union and cooperation. In this capitalistic society money talks. If you walk then you must pay the price. Or the next gym must pay for you having been somewhere else. Watch how serious things get when you look for work or when gyms seek coaches. The system will check and balance itself. Siphoning off as a gymnast to go be with a hot dog coach after you've been with someone else who brought you up for seven or eight years will not happen so easily anymore. Losing a coach that has been at your gym for ten years will not happen so easily anymore.

The reason this situation exists is because of selfishness, politics, and downright cop outs. People complain that they can't deal with this issue. That its too big. Or they feel its their right to abuse organizations and owners. They feel its their right to hop around like a patriotic bunny rabbit. Then they justify their bunny hops for the sake of living in a free country by telling us how much good their bunny behavior is for the kids.

Every gym should meet certain standards and follow certain patterns of administration in order to stabilize what the public receives from our industry. There should not be any such thing as a gym that doesn't get the job done. All coaches should also meet certain standards of coaching ability and assure that the same patterns of instruction are taught at all gyms below the elite level. The public should know what to expect when they go to a gymnastics class at any gym in the country depending on the learning level.

Lets get our act together folks. Helter skelter is not an answer.

 

[bogwoppit]

Gym utopia doesn't exist. People speak with their wallets and their feet. Change will come if enough people leave. Either because the gym will close or because the owner will see they need to change. People don't stay in jobs they hate, why should they? Parents remove gymnasts for all kinds of reasons, the customer is always right.

This thread is going nowhere as you are suggesting a ridiculous solution for a massive issue. The quality of coaching is uneven the world over. There are great bosses and working conditions and there are bosses so bad you wonder why they aren't in jail.

Unless this thread takes a new tack it might find itself in junk heaven.

 

[triptwister]

Another solution is look at our public school systems. As an industry if we can call ourselves professionals then we can take on a new tack that borrows from what works for the masses and is already in place and proved itself.

If the quality of coaching is uneven the world over then lets fix it. Lets standardize how coaches teach gymnastics so that a minimum level of competency can be expected from any program.

And gym hopping must be brought under control and regulated. Just like the public school systems control school hopping.

I have seen the aftermath of irresponsible and unregulated gym hopping. Its not pretty. Its an ugly situation for the victims. In a divorce the unfaithful customer is not always right.

This thread was junk from the moment it was created. Not because people like me champion the sentiments of those who would create this thread. It was doomed due to the careless and irresponsible attitude of the majority who abuse the advantage they should never have in the first place. You the majority, are the ones who condone gym hopping and taunt it as a final solution.

 

[bogwoppit]

Snort! Really Stretch you think so much yet see too little. Customers are always right, because they will leave (with their wallets) if they aren't happy. NO amount of complaining will change that.

Public school is not a fair comparison anyway as the government controls it, parents still decide whether to partake or not and many who do not like the public system talk with their wallets and choose to homeschool or to buy a private school education. Same with teachers, if they do not like the school's philosophies they can leave, as they should be able to.

You cannot make people stay! THis isn't communist Russia and there are no salt mines for people who do not do what you want.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Another solution is look at our public school systems. As an industry if we can call ourselves professionals then we can take on a new tack that borrows from what works for the masses and is already in place and proved itself.

If the quality of coaching is uneven the world over then lets fix it. Lets standardize how coaches teach gymnastics so that a minimum level of competency can be expected from any program.

And gym hopping must be brought under control and regulated. Just like the public school systems control school hopping.

I have seen the aftermath of irresponsible and unregulated gym hopping. Its not pretty. Its an ugly situation for the victims. In a divorce the unfaithful customer is not always right.

This thread was junk from the moment it was created. Not because people like me champion the sentiments of those who would create this thread. It was doomed due to the careless and irresponsible attitude of the majority who abuse the advantage they should never have in the first place. You the majority, are the ones who condone gym hopping and taunt it as a final solution.

okay trip, you were starting to do okay. me thinks you better give it a rest now. you're a bit off base. note: i have asked with love and kindness in my heart.