WAG Stacking teams

[cadybearsmommy]

There is no such thing as "level 7 skills". All "A" and "B" skills are allowed at both level 6 and level 7. The special requirements are different, but there is no scoring advantage to competing a routine that meets the special requirements of level 7 at a level 6 competition. The only scoring advantage would come from competing the skills with better execution - casts to complete handstand, circling skills on bars to complete handstand, tumbling with more amplitude, splits to full 180, etc. - and this advantage is available to all, regardless if they are competing a routine that meets the minimum requirements or competing the maximum skill level allowed and regardless of what higher level skills they may be "uptraining" in the gym.

I would agree and disagree with this. Yes there is not "supposed" to be a a scoring advantage, however I think that can be very region/judge dependent. In some areas (like our state) minimum and clean scores well, however it's a different story when we go out of state for meets, the score fluctuations have been huge for our team depending on whether we were competing in state against those with similar routines/skill level or out of state against those doing routines that would more than meet the requirements for L7.

I get there can be a lot more fluctuation in optionals. However 6 and 7 is kind of different. New 6 is a level pretty much created to be a bridge to optionals for kids not quite ready for L7 (usually because they are missing giants or a series on beam, etc.) When kids are competing skills that meet the full requirements for L7 (and then some, b/c we saw beam routines that could have very well been L8) in L6, than it kind of defeats the purpose of L6. Especially when these kids would almost certainly be scoring just as high in L7 with the exact same routines.

I don't think every case of a high scoring kid is sandbagging, not by any means. I don't know enough about OP's case to know if there was sandbagging or just a lot of truly talented kids. But I can say with confidence that sandbagging does exist, it is out there and while it is frustrating, unfortunately there is not a lot to be done about it unless USAG changes some rules. Some states have implemented that a kid who repeats a level after achieving a certain score (usually in the 37-38 range) that their scores may not count for team awards and that is a good rule IMO, one I wish that our state/region would implement. I think it would prevent a lot of the true sandbagging by taking away the incentive to hold kids back, without forcing anyone to move up who really is not ready.

 

[munchkin3]

Thanks for taking me down Memory Lane.....

DING DING!!!! you got it!
LOLOOLLLOL

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Just looked up results. The state meet that the OP was referencing had 158 scores of 37+. Out of 642 competitors. That's nearly 25%.

Some of those 37s were placing 12th and 13th in their age groups.

=
The sport is evolving, and coaches are getting better everywhere. Going to state meets and winning with a 37 is a thing of the past in many areas. While I am sure there are instances of holding kids back the truth of the matter is coaches are just getting better at what they do and the number of kids keeps growing because of it.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Looks like SoCal had 365 scores of 37+ out of a total of 1083, so about 1/3

Yep, talent EVERYWHERE. In all my years here in SoCal, wow.... Top to bottom

 

[munchkin3]

OK- seriously, some gyms are able to produce armies of 37+ scorers every season.....The CGM in me quietly envies it, and I quietly figure out a way to quit my job, move there and put my DD there so she too will become one of those......THEN I snap out of it!!!
REALITY CHECK!!!!
What am I doing??? Helping my DD obtain some valuable life lessons while learning gymnastics. She is learning to value tenacity, hard word, pressure, competition, etc. etc. etc....the list goes on.
After L7, it is NO longer about scores....its about skills and about the thought of MAYBE (now that they have made it to L7) doing this is college might be nice.....MAYBE......because anyone who has fed their 8yo the story that they are destined to go to college gymnastics if they work hard and 'focus' has just missed the point!

Don't, FOR A SECOND allow your child to feel 'disappointed' because they finished at states with a 36 and change.....there will always be those gyms. and their focus is to clean up. And those gyms produce lots of high level athletes and that's great. But there is room for everyone. And getting to Level 10 is the same path for everyone....Some get there via 35s and 36s, and others fly by with 38s.....the only thing to judge is what you want for your kid, and at what sacrifice do YOU want it for them....

 

[munchkin3]

I meant getting to L10 is NOT the same for everyone.

PS- In my short experience.....the kids who cruise by with 38s have a very hard time once they reach their challenge level and begin getting 35s etc.....

 

[sevenatenine2]

One thing I really like about our state stream, is that instead of grouping by age divisions, they group by score. The idea is that kids are competing against other kids whose highest all-around is within a point of their own highest all-around--evening the field a little. It's frustrating when you get into the "top" division and might not place even with really high scores because you're with the big hitters, but it also prevents kids from going a whole season without placing in ANYTHING. You can move "divisions" midseason, based on your highest score. It's not a bad system.

 

[dbean]

OK- seriously, some gyms are able to produce armies of 37+ scorers every season.....The CGM in me quietly envies it, and I quietly figure out a way to quit my job, move there and put my DD there so she too will become one of those......THEN I snap out of it!!!
REALITY CHECK!!!!
What am I doing??? Helping my DD obtain some valuable life lessons while learning gymnastics. She is learning to value tenacity, hard word, pressure, competition, etc. etc. etc....the list goes on.
After L7, it is NO longer about scores....its about skills and about the thought of MAYBE (now that they have made it to L7) doing this is college might be nice.....MAYBE......because anyone who has fed their 8yo the story that they are destined to go to college gymnastics if they work hard and 'focus' has just missed the point!

Don't, FOR A SECOND allow your child to feel 'disappointed' because they finished at states with a 36 and change.....there will always be those gyms. and their focus is to clean up. And those gyms produce lots of high level athletes and that's great. But there is room for everyone. And getting to Level 10 is the same path for everyone....Some get there via 35s and 36s, and others fly by with 38s.....the only thing to judge is what you want for your kid, and at what sacrifice do YOU want it for them....

Luckily my daughter isnt overly competitive and we learned a hard (self reflection of the gym parents we were vs who we should be) leason last year when she went to from the top to the middle so we decided just to embrace her progress. She sets mini goals for herself but we tell her to ignore the scoreboard and placements. Better to measure on whether she did a little better than yesterday. She has had a better season this year with us taking a step back and providing positive vibes no matter what. We are proud of her hard work and are thankful for the atmosphere her gym creates. I know some parents move to more competitive gyms but think mine would quit if she wasnt having fun.

 

[munchkin3]

Thats a great attitude! And one that will keep your daughter succeeding in everything she does!
Mine is competitive, but she prefers to learn new skills rather than repeating a level. She can get medals in some, but not all events. She is ok with that.
Her goal this season is a 37.....very respectable and realistic goal. She knows she is in the worst age group, so 37 wont get her much, but she will be happy.....

 

[rjb123]

My daughter knows and says that the only person she is competing with is herself. The scores and placements work themselves out- her only job is to go out there, work hard, do her best and have fun. And if she loves gymnastics when things are good AND when they are bad, then it is still the right place for her.

 

[flipster]

I believe unofficial defenition of sandbagging is not moving up by repeating levels so they can dominate the podium. If they move 1 level a season it is hardly sandbagging.
there is also mental aspect. Some people are not ready to move 2-3 levels in one season. Or...that particular girl uptrained floor skills but lags somewhere else. Who knows what the reality is.

 

[tomtnt]

what are you going to say/do when you get to level 10 and the girls are still scoring 38s/39s? are they sandbagging for repeating level 10? force them to go elite? make separate division for girls who repeat level 10s?

facts of life, unfortunately - some girls are just really really really good....

 

[z2akids]

Parents all of your kids are training for level 10, it starts in level 3. That being said a 37 would hardly place in our region. we had over 100 legit 38 (handful of 39 included in that number) at our State meet this weekend. I would love to come to your state meet!

So my question is - is there a scoring difference between your state and mine or is the talent that much better. At our Optionals States this past weekend there were 11 38s and no 39s out of just shy of 1100 gymnasts. And, my understanding is that Ohio has some pretty good gymnasts. Is our talent pool that mich shallower or is there a difference in the scoring from state to state being shown here?

 

[dbean]

So my question is - is there a scoring difference between your state and mine or is the talent that much better. At our Optionals States this past weekend there were 11 38s and no 39s out of just shy of 1100 gymnasts. And, my understanding is that Ohio has some pretty good gymnasts. Is our talent pool that mich shallower or is there a difference in the scoring from state to state being shown here?

I cannot answer for @coachp but I do know that when our girls compete in other states they usually score to 1 to 2 points higher AA which is a pretty big difference

 

[Deleted member 14190]

So my question is - is there a scoring difference between your state and mine or is the talent that much better. At our Optionals States this past weekend there were 11 38s and no 39s out of just shy of 1100 gymnasts. And, my understanding is that Ohio has some pretty good gymnasts. Is our talent pool that mich shallower or is there a difference in the scoring from state to state being shown here?

I have no way of judging the talent level in your state. So I cannot answer your question. It was not my intent to portray our state in a different light , I was just trying to communicate to the op that her state is not only typical but "it could be worse". Hope that makes sense

 

[e'smum]

Parents all of your kids are training for level 10, it starts in level 3. That being said a 37 would hardly place in our region. we had over 100 legit 38 (handful of 39 included in that number) at our State meet this weekend. I would love to come to your state meet!

and hence why i think that judging is different in different regions! 39's are unheard of here in region 6. a 36 means you are doing better than average and a 37 means you are at the top of your game. a few 38s scattered in here and there. yet we went and held our own in NYC against teams from all over the country (including CA).
so, i'll turn it back around on you and say i'd love to come compete in your state so our kids can get some 38s.

 

[wandrewsjr]

and hence why i think that judging is different in different regions! 39's are unheard of here in region 6. a 36 means you are doing better than average and a 37 means you are at the top of your game. a few 38s scattered in here and there. yet we went and held our own in NYC against teams from all over the country (including CA).
so, i'll turn it back around on you and say i'd love to come compete in your state so our kids can get some 38s.

Everyone is judged by the same judges at JO Nationals, you could just compare scores from there. Gymnasts from every region are represented and compete directly against each other.

 

[NutterButter]

I'm in Region 4. 2016 Optionals in my state:

L6 - 8 above 37, no 38's
L7 - 16 above 37, 1 38+
L8 - 5 above 37, 1 38+
L9 - 5 above 37, no 38's
L10 - 8 above 37, 2 38+

So out of 583 gymnasts, just 4 scores above 38 and 42 in the 37's.

I wonder if it's more of a cultural thing? I know we have talent here. I think a lot of gyms here train the minimum end of hours for each level. When I see threads about the hours trained, DD's gym is always on the lower end. From casual conversations with other parents, it seems many gyms in my area train similar hours (though I'm aware of some that do train way more). I've joked with my DD that if we lived in some states, she'd be stuck in L5. Or she would have quit because the norm number of hours in the gym would be more than she is comfortable with.

 

[tomtnt]

Everyone is judged by the same judges at JO Nationals, you could just compare scores from there. Gymnasts from every region are represented and compete directly against each other.

JO nationals team results (combining results for each of the 12 age groups)

Tie for First Place – Regions 1 and 3 (CA is in region #1, Tx in region #3)
Third Place – Region 5
Fourth Place – Region 7
Fifth Place – Region 8
Sixth Place – Region 4
Seventh Place – Region 6
Eighth Place – Region 2

1 score > 39 (maddie carr, University of Denver)
71 scores > 38 out of 676....
331 scores > 37....

 

[munchkin3]

I promise, it's liberating to stop caring about scores......put the pencil down at the meets.....just watch and enjoy!