WAG Team parent meeting comments regarding tuition - any insight

[Madden3]

OP you hit on a major pet peeve of mine. Major.

Our gym owner does this exact thing of complaining about how team loses money-in writing, every time they raise the practice tuition which is more or less annually. And it is in extreme bad taste as well as a reprehensible business practice in my opinion. "Hey parents, you know that hundreds and hundreds of dollars you pay us in gym tuition every month? That we just raised? Yeah, actually we are losing money on that and wish you all would go away to make room for the hordes of rec kids that would surely materialize if we could just be rid of your profit- sucking team kids." I mean wow. Some motivator. Doesn't the owner realize that this kind of message from the gym makes digging deep and paying that tuition every month harder, not easier? No one wants to give thier hard earned money to a business that does not appreciate it. This is not something a parent who is spending tons of money on a kid's sport wants or needs to hear. What possible purpose does it serve?

No one is forcing any gym to have teams. If there is no solid business reason for having a team, then either the gym owner is a terrible business person or they have some other, personal reason to want to have a team at their gym. Neither circumstance is in any way my fault or problem so I do not want to hear complaints. If there is a solid business reason, owner should be thanking me for my business like any other rational business owner who wants to retain me as a customer. I imagine most businesses take what on paper amounts to a financial loss in some areas in order to improve overall business performance. This is not something that is unique to gyms I am sure, but what is unique to gyms apparently is that they have the nerve to complain to their paying customers about it.

For the record, in the 5 years of having our kids on team at the same gym, (where my sons also did rec and where young daughter still does rec) we have never complained about tuition costs nor been a single day late with payment. Not even when my husband was out of work for almost a year. I am sure there are parents that do complain, and I think in that case an owner could simply say "please feel free to compare team costs with other gyms." That was all I ever needed to do to understand we were not being robbed. But nor did my research indicate we are getting some generous bargain either. I found that team tuition costs were similar amongst local teams. Clearly the prices are at what the local market will bear. Economics 101.

We are at our gym for two reasons. Good coaches and close to our house. So far these pluses outweigh owner's disrespectful attitude. But it still bugs me to no end.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

folks, unless you're one of a dozen gyms in the USA, owning a gym is an albatross. there are other perks to a gym schedule...but money is not one of those.

 

[munchkin3]

I always tell those parents that have a 'negative' stance on costs, be thankful for a large recreational and after school program.

 

[MILgymFAM]

folks, unless you're one of a dozen gyms in the USA, owning a gym is an albatross. there are other perks to a gym schedule...but money is not one of those.

If it's such an albatross why are there so darn many? Seriously, they're everywhere here.

 

[munchkin3]

My humble opinion, I have not owned one, but I have been on other side of gym management.......
There is a big difference between the passion, love and devotion in gymnastics, and the business side of it. It's SEEMS like a great business but to make a great gym, you need to either have $ to pay for talented coaches, or you need to have a gym who is owned by one of those coaches and is invested.
That's why I always appreciate the hundreds of recreational kids running around during peak hours......sure it interferes a little for the team, but it is one of the ways we can afford the coaches/stability we have.

 

[profmom]

I think running a gym with lots of rec classes can easily be a business, and if done with a close eye to profit motive, a lucrative one. Running a good team is a labor of love. The kind of expert training my son particularly is getting (his coach is very senior and his workout group is small) is one hell of a bargain. Because of a few unfortunate injuries in the gym last year, this coach took only one kid to nationals on the gym's dime. We were all really grateful.

 

[Madden3]

I did not think this thread was about parents complaining about the cost of gym to gym owners. I thought this thread was about gym owners complaining about the cost of team to team parents.

Team may indeed be a financial loss for owners, but that does not change the fact it is also very expensive for parents. Our money must help somehow, or team tuition would be free. I believe complaining about team not making money to parents sets up an adversarial relationship between owners and parents, with coaches caught in the middle. At least that is what I have seen happen at our gym. I do not see how that is good for anyone.

Also fwiw our gym pays nothing for competition costs. All meet costs including all coach pay and compensation comes from the parents via the booster club, (so money fundraised by parents as well as a per gymnast assessment charged annually by booster that parents pay out of pocket.) Things like uniforms and gymnast travel are paid directly by parents. So all competition costs are an additional cost paid entirely by parents over and above tuition for team practices that are paid to the gym. If the booster hosts a meet at the gym to raise funds, they either pay the gym for use of the facility and equipment or have some other arrangement whereby the gym is compensated. (It depends on the meet.) Again, not complaining. I am glad that our booster and gym keep these things clearly separate, it was not always this way and that caused many difficulties. Just explaining.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

^^^^^ that

 

[Aussie_coach]

folks, unless you're one of a dozen gyms in the USA, owning a gym is an albatross. there are other perks to a gym schedule...but money is not one of those.

Then perhaps those running the gyms should not be doing it. If your business is not making a good profit then your business skills need some work.

 

[eucoach]

I do understand where these owners are coming from, however I agree that it is in pretty poor taste to confront all team parents with it.

I'm not from the US and gymnastics is so so so much cheaper here than in the US and probably most countries - but we regularly get parents who complain about the cost. Most of the time they go straight to the owner, wanting some kind of discount because "my kid only attends 3 out of 4 practices", "practice was cancelled a couple of times", "we have to pay for leos as well", and so on. Most of the time the parents who complain the most are not the ones hurting for money! It is incredibly frustrating to hear these complaints because yes, team is only made possible through lots of kids in recreational classes and fees would have to be raised big time if it was a "team only" program.

I would advise you to either ignore what the owners said or talk to them personally and tell them that it is a little offensive to the majority of parents who have never complained about fees.

 

[Madden3]

Thanks eucoach that is good advice. I have chosen the "ignore it" route for several reasons and it works fine for me. Just saw a chance to vent a bit here and took it.

As someone who has worked customer service and sales my entire life, I still think that even when a customer complains about the cost of team, complaining in turn about the team losing money is at best an argument of last resort. I believe any decent gym (including my kid's gym) has many more positive justifications for the cost of team. Talking about how team loses money is also alarming for parents because it gives the impression the entire gym is in financial straights and may fold. Even if this is true, it is not usually a great idea to give customers that impression.

As far as rec goes, I think most people understand the importance of a strong rec program both financially and as a way to increase the popularity and the visibility of the individual gym and of the sport overall. Although my kids attend a large and often very crowded gym, I have never been someone to complain about rec in any way and I have personally never heard a team parent complain about rec or express desire for a team-only gym. My kids have all been in/are in rec and it is the same with many team families. When I mentioned "hordes" of rec kids in my previous post I was making a point about the owner's anti-team attitude, not complaining about rec programs.

 

[GymDad9.9]

OP you hit on a major pet peeve of mine. Major.

Our gym owner does this exact thing of complaining about how team loses money-in writing, every time they raise the practice tuition which is more or less annually. And it is in extreme bad taste as well as a reprehensible business practice in my opinion. "Hey parents, you know that hundreds and hundreds of dollars you pay us in gym tuition every month? That we just raised? Yeah, actually we are losing money on that and wish you all would go away to make room for the hordes of rec kids that would surely materialize if we could just be rid of your profit- sucking team kids." I mean wow. Some motivator. Doesn't the owner realize that this kind of message from the gym makes digging deep and paying that tuition every month harder, not easier? No one wants to give thier hard earned money to a business that does not appreciate it. This is not something a parent who is spending tons of money on a kid's sport wants or needs to hear. What possible purpose does it serve?

No one is forcing any gym to have teams. If there is no solid business reason for having a team, then either the gym owner is a terrible business person or they have some other, personal reason to want to have a team at their gym. Neither circumstance is in any way my fault or problem so I do not want to hear complaints. If there is a solid business reason, owner should be thanking me for my business like any other rational business owner who wants to retain me as a customer. I imagine most businesses take what on paper amounts to a financial loss in some areas in order to improve overall business performance. This is not something that is unique to gyms I am sure, but what is unique to gyms apparently is that they have the nerve to complain to their paying customers about it.

For the record, in the 5 years of having our kids on team at the same gym, (where my sons also did rec and where young daughter still does rec) we have never complained about tuition costs nor been a single day late with payment. Not even when my husband was out of work for almost a year. I am sure there are parents that do complain, and I think in that case an owner could simply say "please feel free to compare team costs with other gyms." That was all I ever needed to do to understand we were not being robbed. But nor did my research indicate we are getting some generous bargain either. I found that team tuition costs were similar amongst local teams. Clearly the prices are at what the local market will bear. Economics 101.

We are at our gym for two reasons. Good coaches and close to our house. So far these pluses outweigh owner's disrespectful attitude. But it still bugs me to no end.

If kids starting out in rec classes are doing so with an eye towards those team kids with the advanced skills, the desire to compete and to dream the "Olympic Dream", I would submit the rec/team dynamic in the gym business model is more symbiotic and mutually inclusive of one another than not.

 

[QueenBee]

Having a child (or children) in gymnastics is expensive. Really expensive. And I have heard both sides of this discussion from both parents and gym owners. When I hear complaints about the high cost of gymnastics from parents - I will admit I don't have a lot of sympathy. When I hear complaints/explanations of the economics of running a gym, again I don't have a lot of sympathy.

My daughter loves gymnastics. It has been a positive experience for her. But, at the end of the day - it is an extracurricular luxury. If I didn't think it made economic sense for our family to pay for it, I would stop paying for it. If I thought a gym was charging more money than the coaching was worth to me, I would look to change gyms. If I thought a gym owner's explanation that they weren't getting rich off of team fees was a lie, then I might be offended by those comments. And while I am not sympathetic to gym owners complaining to parents about the expenses of running a gym - it has been my experience that those conversations only occur as a follow up to parental complaints about cost which don't seem to fully understand how a gym works economically.

In listening for years to coaches in person (and on this board & others), I have never heard of any coach saying that coaching gymnastics was a huge money maker. And I have never seen any proof in 'rich' lifestyles of the coaches we have had over the years. In fact, if I didn't see coaches dress up for year end banquets, I would think their wardrobes consisted entirely of promotional t-shirts from gymnastics meets, track suit bottoms and yoga pants. Maybe the occasional Rio Olympic themed t-shirt this past year as well.

Maybe this is one of those times to remember that not every piece of information shared at the gym/parent meetings is meant for every parent. For those parents new to your gym, it might have been new information that was helpful to know. For parents complaining about the high cost of a voluntary luxury, it might have been said to serve as a reminder that most team parents are paying very little (per coaching hr). For those who are fine with what they pay and happy with the coaching their child receives, it might be something to let go and move on from.

 

[CuriousCate]

If I compare this to the veterinary field which I work in: We would never tell owners of sick animals that their care is subsidized by all the healthy pets we see. While they do pay less for time spent on their case, and use specialized equipment, and take away time we could use on more profitable appointment; those healthy pets would never be there if we didn't offer care for sick pets! I think it's fairly clear that there is, as a PP said, a symbiotic relationship. And the only time it would be possibly helpful to bring it up would be in response to a specific complaint about costs.

This. It's likely true. They don't make a direct profit and actually would take a loss if the whole gym was only team. BUT bad bedside manner to say it. That's their choice to run a gym with a team. They are obviously getting something out of it that benefits them - being more rec business, personal success satisfaction, etc. Very tacky.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

The we go less days argument.... I get it. I pay for the spot. They have to have staff available for x number of kids. Be it camp, preschool, daycare, gym, whatever. They need to staff as if everyone shows up. Not their problem if we dont.

We try never to miss, it happens though. I don't think I am entitled to money back or a make up. If we can make up great if not oh well.

Now if the gym cancels their committed day to us, you bet I want a make up. I honor and pay if we show or not. You are on the hook if you need to cancel/reschedule. That door swings both ways.

 

[e'smum]

our head coach never brings any of that up at the annual JO parent/team meetings. all i've heard him say is that he likes to have the rec classes see the team girls working out b/c then the rec kids want to be on team. when he was first starting out he even pointed out a team kid to one parent and told her about her achievements. now they are really busy and have outgrown that space so no selling needed. of course the team kids don't pay as much per hour as the rec kids. but we do pay more in general. i know our coach does extra stuff "out of the goodness of his heart" but he doesn't brag about it or put it in anyone's face. he does it b/c he wants to build the sport up in our region (and even change some things on a USAG level) and is very passionate about building a group of elite gymnasts. i'm very fortunate to have my dd's coaching staff and head coach.

 

[e'smum]

ps - a booster donation? i've not heard of any gym in our area having a booster club or donations required. we parents are expected to put in X amount of hours at our hosted meet but the $ earned covers our dd's meet fees and if we work extra, it gets credited to our account. the first time we hosted states, the coaches didn't know we needed to pay for the rental fee of the space and b/c they had told the parents all the money would go to whoever worked the meet, they went ahead and honored that and paid for it themselves.