Parents The average gymnast debate

[Pineapple_Lump]

She will have to repeat the level (which is completely OK) since she never hit a 36 in any competition. She hit 34 once but our gym doesn't have level 5.

I know many have focused on the 36 requirement - but as a coach, this stuck out to me. That is essentially the equivalent of 12+ falls and would indicate that perhaps your child would benefit from having another season in level four. This would ideally improve her current skills and prepare skills for the next level while building her confidence

I know many mention fact how winning is not important - but having success and personal 'wins' is great for confidence.
For every compulsory gymnast with low scores that went on to do well in the higher levels their is also a child who repeated along the way and succeeded.

Allie repeated level five (what is now level four)

We also feel like quite a few of her teammates have seen a lot of growth this season...but our DD hasn't. I realize I'm probably sounding crazy, I just don't want my kiddo to miss out on opportunities to participate in something she excels in because gymnastics eats up so much time. Your thoughts?

Are the other gymnasts having success? - has your gym got upper optional gymnasts who are doing well? If the answer to these is yes - I would put faith in the gym that they are doing what is best for your child. Stopping your child from participating in an activity because the are not as good as others can send a concerning message - because in life most of us will not be the best at what we do.

I need to let her guide this journey. My kiddo is so coachable and she really does love this crazy sport!

Perfect! If she loves it - don't take it away. It's her sport and unless you can't feasibly support it anymore regardless of her success don't upset her.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

You and your ex are not paying for medals or scores. Or you shouldn’t be.

You are paying (hopefully) for strength, work ethic, time management, skills, joy, excellent relationships, skills……….

 

[gympoppop]

Yeah, scoring over a 36 sounds overly restrictive to me. Jade Carey would have been in trouble at your gym, she barely ever cracked 36 until level 7!

 

[GymnastMomX2]

My daughter competed level 4 as a 9 year old, scoring mostly 32-34, and pulled off one 36 magically to qualify to state. She repeated 4, but because of covid didn’t actually compete that season. She’s now scoring 37+ last year as a level 7 and this year as a 12 year old level 8. All that to say, your daughter is so young and her scores now mean almost nothing when it comes to her future success. As long as she is happy and enjoying the sport I wouldn’t stress.

 

[gymgal]

I know many have focused on the 36 requirement - but as a coach, this stuck out to me. That is essentially the equivalent of 12+ falls and would indicate that perhaps your child would benefit from having another season in level four. This would ideally improve her current skills and prepare skills for the next level while building her confidence

Wouldn't it be 8 falls? 40-36=4 0.5x8=4.0 ; Not sure this is comparative though as most deductions in the low levels come from form and composition/fluidness errors in the routines. While this can improve by repeating a year, a lot of it is also just maturation and would happen whether they repeat or not - especially in the lower levels. There are certainly reasons to repeat a level such as not having the skills consistent for the current or next level, but being able to achieve a 36 because the gymnast is not as polished in the lower levels (death by a thousand cuts) is not one of them in my opinion.

 

[Aussie_coach]

That’s generous, in Australia a fall is a 1.0 deduction, the same as FIG.

 

[NutterButter]

This 'average' discussion is fascinating to me. My DD competed L4 a long time ago and I only remember that she came home with tons of ribbons and sometimes a podium finish for an event or two (never 1st; 2nd or 3rd). So, I looked at mymeetscores to see exactly what her scores were. Her personal best on each event only netted a 34.325. She would have been held back in the gyms with a 35 or 36 move up requirement but she was more than ready to move up to L5.

I looked at the scores for her State meet. There's a big difference between age groups. Here's a comparison for all, the youngest and the oldest age groups:

	35+	36+
All Ages (262)	76 (29.0%)	38 (14.5%)
7-8 yrs (54)	12 (22.2%)	6 (11.1%)
11+ yrs (47)	7 (14.9%)	5 (10.6%)

My kid was in the 11+ group. She was a late starter and always in the old lady group.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

Wouldn't it be 8 falls? 40-36=4 0.5x8=4.0 ; Not sure this is comparative though as most deductions in the low levels come from form and composition/fluidness errors in the routines. While this can improve by repeating a year, a lot of it is also just maturation and would happen whether they repeat or not - especially in the lower levels. There are certainly reasons to repeat a level such as not having the skills consistent for the current or next level, but being able to achieve a 36 because the gymnast is not as polished in the lower levels (death by a thousand cuts) is not one of them in my opinion.

My math was based on a 34 as the OP stated her daughter had only scored above 34 once. Which to me gives more information about the OP's DD than the gym's 36 requirement.

I do love how seeing the number 36 completely distracts many from any other information though. I even bolded that bit - and it still got missed. Maybe gyms should make the requirement 35.999.

 

[gymgal]

My math was based on a 34 as the OP stated her daughter had only scored above 34 once. Which to me gives more information about the OP's DD than the gym's 36 requirement.

I do love how seeing the number 36 completely distracts many from any other information though. I even bolded that bit - and it still got missed. Maybe gyms should make the requirement 35.999.

Yes, I completely missed your bold. Thanks for pointing it out because I was really scratching my head trying to figure out how you got 12 falls. I think the discussion got moved to the 36 rule b/c OP thought it was a DP requirement and I think most parents do feel that 36 is too restrictive especially in the lower levels. An average of 9.0 on each event just isn't reasonable for some young gymnasts. Of course, that is a differing opinion debate as to how inclusive a gym wants to be, which is an entirely different discussion.

But you're right, Not achieving 34 consistently within a level is more concerning as it is more likely due to not having the skills solidified enough to move on to the next skill sets. Not always the case, but more likely.

 

[Anonymous 1234]

Wouldn't it be 8 falls? 40-36=4 0.5x8=4.0 ; Not sure this is comparative though as most deductions in the low levels come from form and composition/fluidness errors in the routines. While this can improve by repeating a year, a lot of it is also just maturation and would happen whether they repeat or not - especially in the lower levels. There are certainly reasons to repeat a level such as not having the skills consistent for the current or next level, but being able to achieve a 36 because the gymnast is not as polished in the lower levels (death by a thousand cuts) is not one of them in my opinion.

The tough part is that my kiddo has had a pretty flawless season. I mean her kip is rough LOL...she mostly muscles up but aside from that, solid. I don't know enough about the sport to fully understand all the deductions, but I know our gym simply isn't as competitive as others. It's all the small deductions that's killing us. I wish we could get a score sheet to know what to work on. We're a fairly new gym (within the last 10 years) so there's a lot of growing pains with the coaching staff. They're dedicated for sure...I'm just not confident they are able to hone in on the details. We watched the first group of Level 4s at states today....others were pulling in high 9s...our gym hovers around high 8s to low 9s. I know scores should not matter, but I argue that keeping a competitive kid interested in gymnastics will require some decent scores at meets. I mean they train all year for 3 months of competitions. I really appreciate everyone's feedback!!

 

[Anonymous 1234]

I know many have focused on the 36 requirement - but as a coach, this stuck out to me. That is essentially the equivalent of 12+ falls and would indicate that perhaps your child would benefit from having another season in level four. This would ideally improve her current skills and prepare skills for the next level while building her confidence

I know many mention fact how winning is not important - but having success and personal 'wins' is great for confidence.
For every compulsory gymnast with low scores that went on to do well in the higher levels their is also a child who repeated along the way and succeeded.

Allie repeated level five (what is now level four)


Are the other gymnasts having success? - has your gym got upper optional gymnasts who are doing well? If the answer to these is yes - I would put faith in the gym that they are doing what is best for your child. Stopping your child from participating in an activity because the are not as good as others can send a concerning message - because in life most of us will not be the best at what we do.

Perfect! If she loves it - don't take it away. It's her sport and unless you can't feasibly support it anymore regardless of her success don't upset her.

Wow! I'll show this video to my daughter. Thank you for putting things into perspective

 

[CuriousCate]

Allie repeated level five (what is now level four)

My daughter repeated two levels on her way to optionals and just won her second state AA title, so as others have said, the early part does not predict optionals!

Funny that @Pineapple_Lump points our Allie Stern because my daughter sees Allie Stern as her inspiration. We met her parents in the airport on the way home from a meet this season. We had just watched OU compete against Denver and Allie was fabulous. While in the airport, her dad saw from my kid's team backpack that we were from the same state and asked her about her gymnastics. He shared that his daughter reached level 10 midway through high school and still was able to compete for Oklahoma!! It was super sweet and a total reminder that persistence and coachability will be the bigger predictors of longevity and success over compulsory level scores.

 

[coach_M]

That’s generous, in Australia a fall is a 1.0 deduction, the same as FIG.

That being said, we do halve our deductions for levels 3-6 so if we’re talking lower levels it comes out to 0.5

 

[Aussie_coach]

That being said, we do halve our deductions for levels 3-6 so if we’re talking lower levels it comes out to 0.5

Really? I can see that causing some issues down the track. If the gymnasts are used to getting higher scores in the lower levels it may make the transition to upper levels even more challenging.

Starting out with a lower average score in lower levels means they don’t get their peak best score as a lower level and then can’t go up from there.

 

[skschlag]

That being said, we do halve our deductions for levels 3-6 so if we’re talking lower levels it comes out to 0.5

Isn't a fall 0.5 for all of the girls' DP program?

 

[gymgal]

Isn't a fall 0.5 for all of the girls' DP program?

yes, but I think they are talking about in other countries.

 

[skschlag]

yes, but I think they are talking about in other countries.

GOtcha.

 

[&bs]

Really? I can see that causing some issues down the track. If the gymnasts are used to getting higher scores in the lower levels it may make the transition to upper levels even more challenging.

Starting out with a lower average score in lower levels means they don’t get their peak best score as a lower level and then can’t go up from there.

At Level 3-6 routines are judged out of 10 so not halving the deductions could lead to some very low scores. Level 7+ have D and E scores as per FIG (obviously with different requirements) so most scores are over 10, so this isn’t really an issue.

 

[bookworm]

That would be a gym rule... USA Gymnastics would be the following (page 79)...

https://usagym.org/PDFs/Women/Rules/Rules%20and%20Policies/2022/2022_2023_w_rulespolicies.pdf

View attachment 8607

So a 34.0 at L4 to get to L5... then a 32.0 at L5 to get to L6.

Clubs have their own standards... our club is a 35.0 at L4.

Have these always been the mobility scores? My oldest never scored higher than 32.6 in any compulsory level...but once she got out of compulsories, did quite well and went to her first JO Nationals at age 10...so don't let compulsory levels brand your gymnast...

 

[Deleted member 18037]

No the mobility score have changed