Parents The saga continues - advice please

[MILgymFAM]

@ gymmomtotwo and others -- What do you think about the 4 hrs/week (developmental team at gym #2) versus 9 hrs/week (Xcel at current gym)? Seems like a big difference. Xcel offers about 250 extra gym hours over the course of a year (and about 150 less hours in the car).

However, there have been many good points about developmental team straight to level 4 (I didn't even realize that the front hip circle and front mill circle were level 3 only skills -- so I'm learning here). I think it's worth going to gym 2 for the evaluation. The developmental team is new at gym 2, but I will hopefully get a good feel for the quality of program in person. And they can see if DD is even a good fit. What I really need right now is a crystal ball!

Will keep everyone posted. You've all been super helpful.

I can't speak to your particular situation, but one thing I have absolutely learned in the past year is that quality over quantity is definitely the rule to follow. My DD has had three hour xcel practices that have probably totaled around 50 minutes of actual training.

 

[MeetDirector]

CL -

I have been blunt on here before about Xcel and I won't stop now. If your dd has dreams of high level gymnastics and maybe college, Xcel is not the place to have those dreams come true. If the gym you are at won't promise that your dd can move back to JO from Xcel, you need to move to another gym.

Doing Xcel, even with the hours you mentioned, most likely won't get her ready for JO. It sounds like the gym you are at has a very specific path to upper JO levels, and you aren't on that path.

Good luck.

 

[Committed]

OP- I think you've gotten some very good advice and insight here. Remember, the quantity of the gym hours do not equal the quality of gym hours, especially if a lot of those hours are spent on learning routines.
My DD was 6yo when she moved onto the pre team of a new gym. Her hours dropped from what she was doing at her old rec gym. Her new gym only had 4 hours a week (2 hours, 2x a week). She was on this pre team for 8 months and then moved onto the L4 team. She competed L4 as a 7yo.

It sounds like you're lucky enough to have multiple gyms in your area to choose from. I know a lot of parents here would kill for a 30-45min drive.

 

[duyetanh]

My drive is 30 to 35, we get home at 8:25 ish four nights a week...thank God she has an hour and a half each morning of downtime due to our circumstances!!!

 

[SignHere]

I will echo what others have said about quality vs quantity. Be very careful!

This year, DD moved to a new gym which really stresses conditioning.

She stayed the same level, but her hours went down. One thing I've noticed is the kids have practically NO down time in practice. In her old gym, the girls might have waited in line for a set of bars to take a turn during bars rotation, for example. In the new gym, the girls have to do press handstands, handstand drills, etc instead of waiting in line.

So fewer hours, but DD was falling asleep in the car on the way home, she was so tired after practice!

 

[LJL07]

I haven't read all of the responses, but this is the nuttiest thing I have ever heard. I think there was literally about one 6 year old in our entire state competing level 3, and she was in a homeschool program. What do they expect? 5 year olds back handspringing across the floor?! Seriously, do they have a history of Olympic caliber gymnasts? If not, I think this age "rule" is outlandish. This is so preposterous that I cannot even. She is SIX. I would find another gym without hesitation.

 

[LJL07]

Reading a bit more...yes, I would consider developmental team or group with competition starting at level 4. We basically just wasted a whole year with dd competing level 2 and perfecting her mill circle. (She was 7 by the way.). I would have preferred a gym with training/conditioning up until level 4, which is really the first "required" level to compete. And another vote for quality over quantity. Program Dd is in now is less hours, but boy are they working them with conditioning. Very little conditioning at other gym and lots of focus on routines. if they have the right conditioning, acquiring the skills should come...

 

[twinmomma]

While the Xcel bronze requirements are not on par with L3's, many gyms that use Xcel as preteam have their girls compete the L3 routines or slightly modified L3 routines in Xcel bronze. So it really depends on the gym.

 

[Anna's_Mom]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond.

Update - I had a super nice conversation with one of the two gyms that's about 30 min away (I was warned it could be an hour in traffic) and liked their philosophy. Unfortunately, I don't think it will be a good fit at this point. Besides the distance, they don't start team until level 4 (still several years away for DD). Before then, there is a leveled rec program and a newly created developmental team. They were happy to evaluate DD for the developmental team and/or rec level, but the developmental team practices only 4 hrs per week and rec classes are 1.5 hours. By comparison, DD practices 6 hrs per week currently on pre team, and would get 9 hrs per week of consistent coaching in Xcel plus an opportunity to compete a little. I suppose I could piece together a program at the other gym (developmental team + rec + conditioning class) that equaled 9 hrs per week, but that doesn't seem ideal.

Sounds like our gym, actually. Our team girls (levels 3-5) work out 8-10 hours a week, total. But we still place at all meets and generally have several AA 1st places each meet, including states. We don't have any optional girls yet because the team is new -- this gym was rec only until a couple of years ago and they made everyone start at level 3, regardless of what level rec class they were in at the time. (This about killed my DD as she was in a level 6 rec class). We probably aren't the "best in town" but I'd say we are in the top 3 or so. So, hours alone doesn't mean all that much. I am a firm believer that you can get just as much out of 4 hours as twice that, if there is the right focus and approach. Workouts are short for our girls, but they are SUPER focused. Because they are short, there is no wasted time for breaks, snacks, and practically not for the bathroom or drinks. And there are 3 coaches for about 20-25 girls so they don't waste much time standing in line either. Which shortens down to -- don't dismiss this automatically, take a look before deciding whether it might be good fit.

 

[CLgym]

Update: We have an evaluation scheduled for gym 2 next week. Also, I spoke with gym 3. They brought up the age thing too! Must be a thing with a certain type of gym in my area (the HCs at both gyms are similar in several key ways). Anyway, gym 3 does not have a pre team or developmental team for which DD could be considered (they lost the pre team coach last year and have not replaced him/her). When I asked where the "new" level 3 girls would come from, she said that the current level 3 group was super huge with some who would repeat level 3 next year. She mentioned that a few girls might also get pulled from the rec team program. When I described DD, the JO team manager said it sounded like she would be put on the rec team until she had her missing level 3 skills, at which time she may (or may not) be moved to level 3 (no guarantees). The rec team is actually the same AAU program we have at our current gym -- a step down from Xcel at our gym -- so not something I am interested in for DD. Don't think that gym 3 will help her reach her JO goal at this point. Everyone agree? So I'm hoping the gym 2 evaluation goes well next week.

In the meantime, I really appreciate everyone who took the time to help me. My husband was getting so sick of hearing about gymnastics It's truly great to have a place to bounce questions and ideas around with knowledgable gym parents!

 

[LJL07]

You must live in Texas. It's the only explanation for this crazy age thing. Kidding, but it's absurd. My husband got sick of hearing about gymnastics about two years ago. In fact, even now when I start to ask him a question, he says, "is it about gymnastics?" I really hope gym 2 works out for your daughter!

 

[emorymom]

Def. if you have an option to do a developmental program to L4, DOOZE IT.

 

[wnl256]

Her current gym has a highly selective and successful JO program, and a solid Xcel program too.

Sounds to me like current gym is more concerned with the number of team banners, podium placers, and state champions than about the progress and potential of each and every one of their gymnasts.

Age should not be a factor or a barrier. It's unfortunate that they aren't being sensible as the gym is so close to you. But sure sounds like you need to look elsewhere.

 

[alr83]

You said something that struck me more than the crazy too old thing. Your daughter said her gym doesn't want her. That will do a lot to her confidence and how she feels her worth is as a gymnast. My daughter is the same age. Our old gym crushed her (differently than your daughter- but your daughter's emotional side has taken a hit too) ..... Her confidence, self esteem- gone.... Her entire world changed. It changed not only things in the gym but at home. The emotional and psychological dmg was tremendous (so bad she could have gotten a part in the exorcist movies). I would seriously look at this with your daughter's situation. What is best for her emotionally and psychologically? The coaching may be all good and well, but it also needs to foster the emotional side of the child.

There has been a huge change in my daughter since we changed gyms and in a short period of time. She is so close to being the kid she was before. Will she ever forget what happened or how she felt.... No. I wish that wasn't the case, but at least she is healing now.

We also decreased our hours by HALF. I can tell you she has gained so much more in these decreased hrs in 1 mo than she did in months and months and months with twice as many hrs.

Like others have said- quality over quantity.

I wish we'd made the switch sooner- even as much as we liked the old hc it was more than time for us to go.

We also drive more than an hr one way to the gym. You make things work if you have to. We live in a rural area so we have a drive no matter what, but we did extend it a bit now and I wouldn't trade a shorter drive for the smile that is back on my daughter's face.

 

[TxGymMom1]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond.

Update - I had a super nice conversation with one of the two gyms that's about 30 min away (I was warned it could be an hour in traffic) and liked their philosophy. Unfortunately, I don't think it will be a good fit at this point. Besides the distance, they don't start team until level 4 (still several years away for DD). Before then, there is a leveled rec program and a newly created developmental team. They were happy to evaluate DD for the developmental team and/or rec level, but the developmental team practices only 4 hrs per week and rec classes are 1.5 hours. By comparison, DD practices 6 hrs per week currently on pre team, and would get 9 hrs per week of consistent coaching in Xcel plus an opportunity to compete a little. I suppose I could piece together a program at the other gym (developmental team + rec + conditioning class) that equaled 9 hrs per week, but that doesn't seem ideal.

I still have one other relatively close gym to call (but current HC came from this gym so I'm a little worried about it getting back). Other gyms in the area are more than an hour away (honestly not feasible because I have other children to consider).

Through all of this, one thing is clear: DD is very hurt by what happened at the current gym. She has expressed wanting to leave no matter what, even if it is not the best gymnastics choice for her. I even overheard DD telling a sibling that the gym didn't want her anymore. It makes me sad, and makes everything more difficult because she is not being rationale about best next steps.

In response to several comments, I've looked and see what everyone was saying about Xcel Bronze not requiring the skills that DD is missing. I'm going to confirm with the current gym, but I really do believe DD and her Bronze teammates will be learning the the level 3 routines this year nevertheless (pre team coach mentioned it and I've watch this year's Bronze girls work on their level 3 skills/routines this year with an occasional substitution). And DD has already started working on most of the missing level 3 skills in pre team (BHS, front mill circle). Does anyone have experience with an Xcel team that uses JO routines and/or up-trains like this?? I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences.

Thoughts?

 

[TxGymMom1]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to respond.

Update - I had a super nice conversation with one of the two gyms that's about 30 min away (I was warned it could be an hour in traffic) and liked their philosophy. Unfortunately, I don't think it will be a good fit at this point. Besides the distance, they don't start team until level 4 (still several years away for DD). Before then, there is a leveled rec program and a newly created developmental team. They were happy to evaluate DD for the developmental team and/or rec level, but the developmental team practices only 4 hrs per week and rec classes are 1.5 hours. By comparison, DD practices 6 hrs per week currently on pre team, and would get 9 hrs per week of consistent coaching in Xcel plus an opportunity to compete a little. I suppose I could piece together a program at the other gym (developmental team + rec + conditioning class) that equaled 9 hrs per week, but that doesn't seem ideal.

I still have one other relatively close gym to call (but current HC came from this gym so I'm a little worried about it getting back). Other gyms in the area are more than an hour away (honestly not feasible because I have other children to consider).

Through all of this, one thing is clear: DD is very hurt by what happened at the current gym. She has expressed wanting to leave no matter what, even if it is not the best gymnastics choice for her. I even overheard DD telling a sibling that the gym didn't want her anymore. It makes me sad, and makes everything more difficult because she is not being rationale about best next steps.

In response to several comments, I've looked and see what everyone was saying about Xcel Bronze not requiring the skills that DD is missing. I'm going to confirm with the current gym, but I really do believe DD and her Bronze teammates will be learning the the level 3 routines this year nevertheless (pre team coach mentioned it and I've watch this year's Bronze girls work on their level 3 skills/routines this year with an occasional substitution). And DD has already started working on most of the missing level 3 skills in pre team (BHS, front mill circle). Does anyone have experience with an Xcel team that uses JO routines and/or up-trains like this?? I'd be interested in hearing about your experiences.

Thoughts?

We had a similar situation at our gym where there was a 7 y/o on pre-team who did not score high enough at JO to make the L3 team. Coaches wanted her to take an extra year and perfect her skills -- the family decided against that and promptly moved her to excel -- where she has really EXCELLED! She typically wins first place at meets in Bronze. They do NOT work on the L3 skills or routines -- a few individual skills, sure, but she typically works on skills higher than L3. IS her form perfect? No .. and IMO, that's a lot of what you get in JO, but this child is SOOO much happier getting to compete and excelling rather than working on her form for another year. My 7 y/o DD, who competes JO - this year L4 -- is sometimes envious that the other girl gets to have "so much fun" uptraining. Just a thought

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

At your daughter's age, the most important thing right now is who is coaching her and whether she is progressing and happy. At six, she doesn't know a lot about XCEL vs. JO, so your attitude can go a long way in helping her adjust. I agree that quantity over quality is HUGE. However, there is no guarantee that your dd will get better instruction if you choose the developmental program. Heck, there is not guarantee she will even want to do gym next year.

I don't know why your current gym feels she is "too old", I agree it is probably their way of saying she doesn't have the "potential" they look for in a future JO gymnast, whatever that may be. (my dd wouldn't either!) However, if they have a strong XCEL team, and continue building strength and flexibility, spending one year in that program won't hurt. If your dd does stay in this sport, she will eventually reach a point where the long hours at gym and the long commutes will be necessary. Why start at age 6 if you don't absolutely HAVE to? Especially if your hubby is completely on board. IMO, it's not worth the extra stress unless you think the XCEL gymnasts are not offered quality training.

Odds are, your dd is on the fence. She works hard (like mine) but isn't as naturally strong, fast, or flexible as the ones your current gym picks for JO. That means her coaches probably love her and want to reward her efforts with opportunity. If that is what happened, it likely created some stress when the coach's desire didn't match with HC's requirements. That would be bad enough, but your gym, like most, totally stinks at communicating! I assume the HC has doubts that she will be ready to compete L3 next season (as a 7yo?) In his mind, she has had ample quality instruction to determine whether she can make it in his JO system. (VERY different from an unkown 7yo walking into gym). Wrong-headed in my opinion, but that doesn't mean your dd can't learn a lot from this gym before moving on in a year or so. Again, I would stress that what matters is the quality of instruction she will get, not which program she is in.

I feel lucky dd's current gym prides itself on getting the most out of every gymnast, regardless of talent. I wish every competitive, successful gym followed that philosophy. However, the hours and stress are not for the faint of heart, and no one moves up without the required skills. We drive 35 minutes each way and believe it's worth it. But I wouldn't have done it at age 6/7 if there was a decent/safe gym close by.

I know it's not an easy decision, and odds are, you will need to move her to a gym that will give her the JO opportunity at some point. It's just hard to say where that point is.