MAG Tippelt tap on p-bars

[Geoffrey Taucer]

SO I've been experimenting this year with having my level 6 boys train their moys with a tippelt-style tap, and overall I'm liking the results so far. As they get comfortable swinging higher, I've had to look more and more at body positions on the layaway.

First, I notice that most (though not all) upper-level athletes who compete a tippelt first hollow, then open to the arch. What is the purpose of this initial hollow? I cannot see any immediate advantage to it over opening directly to an arch right out of the handstand.

Second, at what point (as far as angles) should the transitions in body position be to get the most pop on the release? In other words, at what point do they transition from the initial hollow to that huge arch? At what point do they transition from that arch to pike for the glide? Am I correct in assuming this second transition should be made as late as possible?

 

[Deleted member D3987]

SO I've been experimenting this year with having my level 6 boys train their moys with a tippelt-style tap, and overall I'm liking the results so far. As they get comfortable swinging higher, I've had to look more and more at body positions on the layaway.

First, I notice that most (though not all) upper-level athletes who compete a tippelt first hollow, then open to the arch. What is the purpose of this initial hollow? I cannot see any immediate advantage to it over opening directly to an arch right out of the handstand.

Second, at what point (as far as angles) should the transitions in body position be to get the most pop on the release? In other words, at what point do they transition from the initial hollow to that huge arch? At what point do they transition from that arch to pike for the glide? Am I correct in assuming this second transition should be made as late as possible?

you're on the right track. the purpose of the initial "hollow" is to shorten the axis in the drop. makes the swing 'egg' shaped as opposed to circular shaped. at about p-bar level [can change just a bit dependent on the body type] is where you throw the arch. this lengthens the axis to create the swing and tap thru the bottom required to get up. so yes, as late as one can do it without peeling off.

 

[CalamityJoe]

I would generally teach giants before Tippelts, so would use a regular tap action for Moys to avoid confusion.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I would generally teach giants before Tippelts, so would use a regular tap action for Moys to avoid confusion.

What I've been doing is using the flyaway dismount to teach the giant tap, and the moy to teach the tippelt tap -- and the results so far have been spectacular!

 

[blantonnick]

I would generally teach giants before Tippelts, so would use a regular tap action for Moys to avoid confusion.

Very good advice. Sat in a lecture given by Parallel Bar World Champion Valeri Belenki advocating teaching Giants before Moy's and Tippelt's. The justification was the gymnast first learned a smooth hang without variation in body position during the hang phase of Group III elements.

Think of it this way, would you teach a Tkatchev on High Bar before teaching a basic giant swing? Same analogy for the Parallel Bars. By initiating Moy's and Tippelt elements first the gymnast is learning to initiate counter rotating elements prior to understanding the root swing element first.

It can be argued that learning Moy's are certainly easier than a giant swing on this apparatus due to the rotated grasp of the hands. I think it depends on the pressures of creating elements for your gymnast due to time constraints. I would advocate the more patient approach and train the Giant swing first, then branch out towards counter rotating elements such as the Moy and Tippelt.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

How far along should they be in learning giants before training the tippelt tap?

With this group of boys, I started off (with level 4/5's) with tap swings under the bars.

I then taught the bail to normal giant swing. No release, no flyaway or moy, just a swing. So they ARE learning a giant swing first -- just not a full giant through to release.

Once they can comfortably bail from support to giant swing, this is where I've had the two skills diverge. I have them work a giant swing to flyaway off the end (and eventually in the middle), but also have them start training a tippelt tap before I have them actually release into a moy.

By the time they compete level 6, most of the boys are proficient in both sorts of taps. They do a tippelt tap into their moy (most of them, anyway) and a giant tap into their flyaway.

Right now, this group of boys just finished the season at level 6. I have started them working on giants and moys to support (again, using a tippelt tap for the moys), and they seem to be coming along pretty well. That said, none of them yet has a giant or a moy to support (although I have two kids who are very close to having the moy to support and one who's very close to ready start catching a giant).

This is the first group of boys I've tried this approach with, but so far I've really liked the results.

EDIT: Also, where've you been, blantonnick? Good to have you back around here.

 

[blantonnick]

First off, where do you think I have been...in the gym of course

As far as the progression and methodology is concerned I think you are certainly going towards the right idea. Training both is certainly ok, it is the implications of the Tippelt style tap that may create technical difficulties for the gymnast during performance of the giant swing. In the Tippelt type of technique the gymnast creates a stretch or even an arch to their bail from handstand that is not advocated during the bail of the giant swing. As long as the gymnast can separate the two techniques than they should have no problem...