TOPS Skills Testing

[teamgirl]

Wow, I thought when you made it to the National TOPS Testing for the weekend in October, that everyone was invited back for the week in December. Meaning if you did not make the A Team then you were just placed on the B Team. I think the A Team girls get expenses paid for December and the B Team girls go but have to pay their own way. Had no idea some girls don't get to go back in December, that's disappointing. I know all the girls who train TOPs work so hard. To have made it to the National Level for testing in October is a great accomplishment!!! To score high enough to go back in December must be amazing, congrats to them!

 

[gymnut1]

I hear they have taken a lot fewer this year as well. So even harder to get in.

 

[bookworm]

It seems that they have taken fewer kids this year but what you need to keep in mind ( and that probably isn't made clear when they are just doing the Physical Abilities testings to get to TX) is that in general, the kids making these teams are doing the upper levels ( 8 and above) and the skills required reflect that...needing a blind change on bars; full on the floor , BHS BHS on beam...so if your kid is only in the compulsory levels, she starts at a deficit when it comes to the National Testing.

That said, it is a HUGE accomplishment for the kids in the compulsory levels to have made it to TX and for some, to the camps. Going to the ranch is a good (albeit expensive) experience and it's an experience that not every gymnast gets so kudos to them for even getting there.

 

[flightskooler]

It seems that they have taken fewer kids this year but what you need to keep in mind ( and that probably isn't made clear when they are just doing the Physical Abilities testings to get to TX) is that in general, the kids making these teams are doing the upper levels ( 8 and above) and the skills required reflect that...needing a blind change on bars; full on the floor , BHS BHS on beam...so if your kid is only in the compulsory levels, she starts at a deficit when it comes to the National Testing.

That said, it is a HUGE accomplishment for the kids in the compulsory levels to have made it to TX and for some, to the camps. Going to the ranch is a good (albeit expensive) experience and it's an experience that not every gymnast gets so kudos to them for even getting there.

Hear!Hear!... Here?Here? Hear? Or Here? I just realized I never knew which one it was.

Everyone did a great job and yes, making the nartional testing is definitely huge. This year at state testing my daughter's scores were just a couple points above qualify... that was an eye opener. Because of course, you have to get to nationals to test for nationals. State testing leaves a lot of room for error in some states. Which is not always fair. Here in Southern California the Tops State Manager is really strict and pretty much follows the criteria to a T. But still timers can be off... judgment can be off... like my daughter's coach says, there's a lot of room for human error. At nationals they are even more strict.
Every state TOPs meet I have ever been to with Jasmine picked on her for some tiny thing in some little way. No point credit because her toes weren't pointed on her last cast, or 9 out of 10 because she arched ever so slightly on her last press handstand... and it seemed harsh at first yeah, but if you read the TOPs manual you'll find out that full credit is only to be given when an element is performed correctly and under that criteria alone, these are things that I have learned to accept as well as expect. What sucks is not every gym follows the rules. It seems to me that some gyms first focus is just to make it to testing and if they have to cut some corners here and there so be it. Well that not only corrupts the system, but there may be girls out there now that should have made it to testing but didn't because they were judged fairly and by the book when at the same time on the other side of the country girls were getting full credit just for making it up to vertical regardless of what shape their handstand was in, and they are the ones that get to go to testing.
That is why my daughter is so lucky where she is... she and her coach have their own relationship apart from mine. He may have tacked on a couple hours to her workout sure, but not at my expense. I mean like this summer when Coach Trent requested the girls come in with the elites and train 8 hour days for a straight 2 week period, do you think he charged us for that? I never saw a bill. Now that is what sets him apart. That is a coach who loves what he does.
I hope every gymnast can find that type of mentor.

 

[gymnut1]

I think it has been a problem that the state scoring has not always been in line. I doesn't help the kids who get a nasty shock at national testing. I will be honest and say some of the youtube videos I have seen 'counting' 10 press handstands or 20 leg lifts I wouldn't have counted more than a couple using the criteria given by USAG.

Very difficult to level the scoring across such an enormous country and they do try very hard and give very strict guidelines. I can't see a way to improve it unless all tops tests were videod and girls scoring over a certain amount had to send their videos to be verified before they were offered a place at national testing.

The girls all work so hard on these tests, it would be nice it they were scored the same everywhere so they knew where they stood right from the beginning. Even with that I hear the national testing was more strict than anyone could have imagined. But they are looking for perfection. Fair enough. Congratulations to all the girls who made it. You are all superstars.

 

[dancengym]

State testing leaves a lot of room for error in some states. Which is not always fair. Here in Southern California the Tops State Manager is really strict and pretty much follows the criteria to a T. But still timers can be off... judgment can be off... like my daughter's coach says, there's a lot of room for human error. At nationals they are even more strict.
Every state TOPs meet I have ever been to with Jasmine picked on her for some tiny thing in some little way. No point credit because her toes weren't pointed on her last cast, or 9 out of 10 because she arched ever so slightly on her last press handstand... and it seemed harsh at first yeah,/

Testing in the regional level can leave room from some error. But I don't think it is substantial that any gymnast who makes it to nationals does not belong there. My daughter's significant drop in abilities scores were not because some skills were given more points than it deserved or was allowed to perform some tests without a timer, etc. My DD literally was off that day. Like I said, she is normally able to hold a perfect handstand for over 1 minute, but at the testing fought to hold it for 17 seconds. Right there is a big drop in her score already. She told me she was cold and I think her nerves also affected her performance. Climbing the rope also posed a problem for her because she said the rope was a lot thicker than she was used to. So that also shaved off some points. So just accounting for these two, she's already down almost 10 points from what she got at the regional testing. She ran a 2.98, jumped 21". Only 15 of her 20 leg lifts counted because she did not touch the counters hand. So little points here and there. Only six 9 year olds qualified from our region of 7 states. Now my DD is also only a compulsory level gymnast and had to learn all the advance skills which she did wonderfully.

There was another thread about trying to find out which region is the toughest meet scorers. And every post almost indicated that their coaches, gymnast or parents feel their region is the toughest. Although I am certain there are some states/regions that are "slightly" tougher (or may stick more strictly to the code), there is very little difference. I think Judges are people with preferences and look for different things and score accordingly and not because their are lackadaisical.

 

[gymnut1]

I think the pressure and nerves are a killer. Just all those little things add up.

 

[flightskooler]

It seems that they have taken fewer kids this year but what you need to keep in mind ( and that probably isn't made clear when they are just doing the Physical Abilities testings to get to TX) is that in general, the kids making these teams are doing the upper levels ( 8 and above) and the skills required reflect that...needing a blind change on bars; full on the floor , BHS BHS on beam...so if your kid is only in the compulsory levels, she starts at a deficit when it comes to the National Testing.

That said, it is a HUGE accomplishment for the kids in the compulsory levels to have made it to TX and for some, to the camps. Going to the ranch is a good (albeit expensive) experience and it's an experience that not every gymnast gets so kudos to them for even getting there.

State testing leaves a lot of room for error in some states. Which is not always fair. Here in Southern California the Tops State Manager is really strict and pretty much follows the criteria to a T. But still timers can be off... judgment can be off... like my daughter's coach says, there's a lot of room for human error. At nationals they are even more strict.
Every state TOPs meet I have ever been to with Jasmine picked on her for some tiny thing in some little way. No point credit because her toes weren't pointed on her last cast, or 9 out of 10 because she arched ever so slightly on her last press handstand... and it seemed harsh at first yeah,/

Testing in the regional level can leave room from some error. But I don't think it is substantial that any gymnast who makes it to nationals does not belong there. My daughter's significant drop in abilities scores were not because some skills were given more points than it deserved or was allowed to perform some tests without a timer, etc. My DD literally was off that day. Like I said, she is normally able to hold a perfect handstand for over 1 minute, but at the testing fought to hold it for 17 seconds. Right there is a big drop in her score already. She told me she was cold and I think her nerves also affected her performance. Climbing the rope also posed a problem for her because she said the rope was a lot thicker than she was used to. So that also shaved off some points. So just accounting for these two, she's already down almost 10 points from what she got at the regional testing. She ran a 2.98, jumped 21". Only 15 of her 20 leg lifts counted because she did not touch the counters hand. So little points here and there. Only six 9 year olds qualified from our region of 7 states. Now my DD is also only a compulsory level gymnast and had to learn all the advance skills which she did wonderfully.

I was not referring to your daughter when I expressed my feelings on the "glitch" in the TOPs program. I watched your Youtube video and I think she did an excellent job learning those skills in such short time. I was just caught up thinking about how I am almost positive my babygirl would not have even made national testing next year as an 11 year old and my thoughts just ran from there. Jazzi is a 9 year old level 9. She will compete 9 and maybe Hopes this coming season. I mean, my daughter's vertical jump has been a steady 16 for the last two years. And don't even ask me about her split scores... aaahh...
so to even to make the testing as an 11 year old you have to hit near max on every PA curved test, she would not have made the testing... but I promise you she could test as an 11 year old today if she wanted to because she's already has all of those skills. You see what would have sucked is she would have never even gotten a shot. But hey, it is her struggle that keeps her humble so I guess I should stop my complaining. I would rather have it this way than that.

 

[dancengym]

What sucks is not every gym follows the rules. It seems to me that some gyms first focus is just to make it to testing and if they have to cut some corners here and there so be it. Well that not only corrupts the system, but there may be girls out there now that should have made it to testing but didn't because they were judged fairly and by the book when at the same time on the other side of the country girls were getting full credit just for making it up to vertical regardless of what shape their handstand was in, and they are the ones that get to go to testing.
.

Flightskooler, the above is what I wanted to quote in my previous post. This is an unfair statement considering you probably don't have first hand knowledge of how other gymnasts in other states were tested. As such, most judgments are made based on hearsay. Since my DD did not do as well on her abilities test on the national level, it was not because she lacked the ability and was judged "unfairly or loosely". It was an off day for her. Her scores where only a hair less than at regionals running 3.0 on the sprint, 21 inches on the vertical, only 15 of her leg lifts counted because she did not touch the counters hand. Little points here and there along with her disasterous HS hold and slower rope climb all contributed. But even looking at her scores, they were not bad. She is a compulsory gymnast and had to learn all the advance skills as well which she did wonderfully.

 

[dancengym]

Just for the record, flightschooler, I never posted a video of my daughter. So, you are mistaking me for someone. In addition, I know you were not referring specifically to my daughter because you don't even know her. However, that statement you made about some regions not going by the book and letting girls into nationals without deserving to be there, would certainly offend any gymnast who did not make it to the camp.

 

[flightskooler]

Check this out...believe what you want to believe, like Gymnut mentioned i too have seen videos of all these other girls at TOPs testing and these are home movies posted by their family. At the end of each test their score would flash on the screen and when it did I almost choked to death because the individual got full credit for every cast attempt they had made. And I am not talking about someone who just didn't point their toes or someone that slightly bent their arms... This individual had it all, bent arms, frog legs etc. and got 5 out of 5. Now tell me that wouldn't piss you off if you watched that video after scoring 4 out of 5 losing one due to slightly flexed feet. and then found out you were 1/2 a point from Diamond team that year and that said "individual" with the frog legs made it. And no... it would not offend just any gymnast that did not make it. And it was not meant to offend anybody at all it was merely an observation, but you sure seem bent out of shape for some reason.

 

[flightskooler]

And I never used the phrase "did not deserve" what I am speaking of is those that did deserve and didn't get. So don't get it twisted.

 

[bookworm]

I think what flightskooler might be referring to is that there are some regions that have tougher scorers at the testings and some that give credit for things one region might and another region would not ...hence the difference...and after all, gymnastics is a JUDGED sport and judged by humans so unless you're going to make every one of the 3700 kids that tests go down to Texas and be tested by the same group of judges ( and that would be insane not to mention costly to do ) , there will be some human variation in the scoring. Should it be glaring? no but again it's a judged sport and it happens...

 

[dancengym]

Check this out...believe what you want to believe, like Gymnut mentioned i too have seen videos of all these other girls at TOPs testing and these are home movies posted by their family. At the end of each test their score would flash on the screen and when it did I almost choked to death because the individual got full credit for every cast attempt they had made. And I am not talking about someone who just didn't point their toes or someone that slightly bent their arms... This individual had it all, bent arms, frog legs etc. and got 5 out of 5. Now tell me that wouldn't piss you off if you watched that video after scoring 4 out of 5 losing one due to slightly flexed feet. and then found out you were 1/2 a point from Diamond team that year and that said "individual" with the frog legs made it. And no... it would not offend just any gymnast that did not make it. And it was not meant to offend anybody at all it was merely an observation, but you sure seem bent out of shape for some reason.

Listen, it was my post containing an admission that my DD did not "score" as well on the national level as she did on the regional level that preceded your post on the discrepancies of judging. So, it is hard not to think that my post might have sparked that harsh judgment. But I do see the point you are making on the post quoted above. But enough on this subject.

As far as the home videos you've seen, the scores posted on the home videos were put there by the parents themselves. So, you truly do not know if the scores are official. In our region, parents are not even allowed to view the testing nor are we even allowed in the building until the testing is over. I've often wondered how these parents can videotape their child. But I guess some states allow parental viewing. In addition, many coaches don't even tell their gymnasts their scores. At our gym, our coaches gave me my DD's score on the regional level, but refrained from giving the exact scores to the other gymnasts who did not qualify. A general "she did really well but the scoring was hard." There was no point in getting the spirit of the gymnast down. The bottom line is those that were invited to the camp, deserved to be invited to the camp. Congratulations to your dd.

 

[gymnut1]

With respect DnG some of the videos I have seen were posted and scored by the coaches. And some of the children i have seen made it to national testing. I am not going to link them because all the girls have worked hard. I think there is a variance of how tightly the tests are scored especially on press handstands, handstand hold shape and cast handstands. Those are the ones so hard to judge.

Your dd like so many other had an off day. That is not really what was being brought up here. No one is suggesting that your dd had a easy ride to national testing. I don't think any child did really but I do think there is a variance in strictness of testing. I hope your dd will benefit from the TOPs training she did this year and I can't wait to hear how she does this season. Best of luck to her. She has achieved so much in such a short time. And who knows.... next year!!!!

 

[flightskooler]

Yeah that is enough... See how defensive we can get... I'll bet our daughters would be ashamed... I'm sorry...

 

[Kay_Hll]

My daughter is testing for the 10 year old and made it to B team but she was kind of disappointed because last year she made the A team. She missed the A team by a score of 1.xx and none of her teammates made the A team either. From our gym 3 made to B team.
Going into the National test we kind of know that my daughter was lacking in some of her bar skills but we told her just do her best and have fun.
She is strong in the physical abilities but a little behind in her skills. She is only in level 6 training 7. Anyway we are proud of her making it to the B team. Now we need to spent more to send her back for the B camp LOL...

 

[gymnut1]

Congratulations to her! THey took less children to A camp this year and had 4 age categories instead of 3 so way way harder to make A camp this time.

Start saving and hope she has a great time! She can aim to have her bar skills for camp and good luck in level 7.

 

[DREAMS]

How did your DD do at testing?

 

[DREAMS]

My DD is training L7 also. She just missed out on A by 1.2 per coach! This is her first year and is very excited about attending B camp!

I would love for her to attend Camp @ "no charge"....But I definitely think it is worth it for the experience! It is such a huge accomplishment to have come this far!