Parents What is bullying?

[profmom]

In my experience, after you've been around for a while, it's pretty easy to tell the difference between favoritism on the one hand and setting up drills that can be done independently to build strength or foundations while working on more advanced skills needing spotting on the other. Unfortunately sometimes the coaches show very vividly that they have their favorites and those they really just don't like as much. In those situations, best that your child can learn to deal gracefully with whichever side of the line s/he is on, because it's not the last time in life they'll experience this.

 

[xxStumpyxx]

The coach can only be in so many places at once. Look at it from the other girl's point of view - is it fair for her to not get coaching, corrections, help with improving her BHD simply because the other girls still need a spot? If the coach sees something that should be fixed or improved upon, it is important for the gymnast to get those corrections while they can still apply them. What if the parents of the other girls were complaining that their DD's were not getting to progress because your DD was taking the coach's time on the spotted BHS when she could be working with them on their progression?

My suggestion is to go shopping or something while your DD is at the gym. It is easy to become a CGM and start counting how many turns a child gets at a spotted station, etc. Getting out of the gym makes my life and DD's a lot happier.

The other day I got to the gym a little early for pick up and the girls were on bars. The coaches were spotting kips, some girls were working them independently and then some of the girls were working cast handstands and flyaways. The coach left a spotted kip station for a bit to work with a girl on her cast handstand. It is a skill they don't need for competition this year, but is important to let the girls continue to progress, not just work at the same level (even within the same competition level). Eventually they will all be working those skills as they progress.

As some here say, this is a marathon, not a sprint. Your DD potentially has years in this sport and will have her ROBHS in time and you will move on to worrying about the darned kip or giant or whatever other skill eludes her.

These things do not mean the coach is favoring a child.

Did you actually read my post? Yes the girl should also get coaching, every child deserves equally coaching, my daughter has been stuck in the same place with her spotted round off back hand spring for many weeks. I think it is wrong that the coach walks away from a station that requires spotting to go and work with this girl when she has just finished working with the coach on the spitting station (the coach follows her to the station that needs no spotting), a the moment you have the one girl who can do an unspotted round off back handspring, my daughter rank does the round off and requires a spot (she doesn't connect the round off to the back handspring yet) and the rest do round off fall backs. Every time the coach walks off my daughter doesn't get to do the round off back handspring and has to do the round off fall backs (taking a progression step backwards) this goes on unless the other girl is not at gym, like I said this has been ongoing on for weeks and progress has been either at a standstill or go back wards with the round off fall backs. That is my issue

 

[Judybird]

Favoritism will happen at any gym, any school, any workplace, anywhere until the end of time. Heck, I have even experienced it at church of all places. It is hard for me as an adult to accept and manage. So of course it is super hard for kiddos when they are aware of it. Ugh!! Sorry for your DD. But as yucky as it is, it could be a great learning experience for her later in life if she can make lemonade out of this lemon! If she succeeds in spite of not receiving extra attention that the more favored girls receive, she'll know her accomplishments are inherently greater than theirs.

 

[xxStumpyxx]

If it was just me that niticed these things are we complaining then I would agree with you about jealousy by it was the fact that the rest of the parents picked up on it, in gymnastics not all girls will be equal some will be at the top some at the bottom of the group and others in the middle, I think my daughter is in the middle and it is a great place to be, more pressure at the top and bottom.

 

[profmom]

This is irrespective of spotting, not spotting and jealousy, but time spent on improving the round off is never wasted. Never. Hear me now, believe me when your child is training/competing L8 or the equivalent.

 

[z2akids]

Did you actually read my post? Yes the girl should also get coaching, every child deserves equally coaching, my daughter has been stuck in the same place with her spotted round off back hand spring for many weeks. I think it is wrong that the coach walks away from a station that requires spotting to go and work with this girl when she has just finished working with the coach on the spitting station (the coach follows her to the station that needs no spotting), a the moment you have the one girl who can do an unspotted round off back handspring, my daughter rank does the round off and requires a spot (she doesn't connect the round off to the back handspring yet) and the rest do round off fall backs. Every time the coach walks off my daughter doesn't get to do the round off back handspring and has to do the round off fall backs (taking a progression step backwards) this goes on unless the other girl is not at gym, like I said this has been ongoing on for weeks and progress has been either at a standstill or go back wards with the round off fall backs. That is my issue

I must have misread your post. I didnt read tuat the coach walked away every time the other girl was there. If the coach does not ever spot your DD when this girl is there, and she would otherwise be spotted, then I would be unhappy. But, there are many reasons other than favoritism that the coach might have a child not do a station. As for working roundoffs, it is not a step backwards. A powerful, round off is so necessary for tumbling progressions and, at least at my DD'S gym, they work roundoffs at every level.

As far as being stuck with spotted BHS for several weeks, that is not unusual. It is a skill that is scary and can take a lot of time and muscle memory before the child is able to do it on her own.

I still recommend getting out of the gym. Your DD will progress and watching will only make it more difficult for you. I like to watch, so I usually get to pick up a little early once or twice a month. I see a lot more progress that way and don't worry about how many turns she gets.

 

[gymdog]

Going back to the beam thing, the girl hasn't mastered the low beam at all, it is just that the high beam is wider(we have a wide high beam) and easier to do the back walkover on as you don't need your hands so close together,

To be honest unless you are actually witnessing first hand what is gong on ii is to assume it is jealousy, like I said it is great for the girl to be more advanced. That is her journey, but not at the cost of others who need help at the spotting station and the coach isn't there, how will the others progress when they don't get a chance to learn because they are not getting the coaches time. That is favouritism. For the record the girl cannot do one morning due to a dance class, the next group up trains in the evenings and she can do those classes.

None of this sounds unusual, but I guess I will not convince you. Your daughters progression on RO BHS doesn't sound unusual for an average gymnast either. It takes months, so I doubt it has anything to do with this other child. Also, the beam situation implies that your coach is not rational. What would be the reason for that? Surely she wouldn't want her favorite to get hurt or learn wrong by going to high beam just for the sake of going to high beam. Most likely she sends the child because she is strong enough to do it and it makes the low beam station less crowded.

 

[xxStumpyxx]

I do not watch very often, the reason I noticed and others parents noticed was we recently had viewing week, I do understand that my daughter will get it when she gets it, she is the one frustrated. The beam things was weird, I am going my what my daughter has told me, that the girl just decided to take herself on the wide high beam. This girl will often cheat according to my daughter, she will do less of what they are supposed to do (like instead doing something 3 times she does it once unless the coach is watching), I have only witnessed this once during viewing week. My daughter does get annoyed when this girl cheats but I tell my daughter that she will only be hurting herself in the long run as long as she doesn't cheat. I always tell my daughter 3 things, work hard, listen and try your best.

 

[xxStumpyxx]

None of this sounds unusual, but I guess I will not convince you. Your daughters progression on RO BHS doesn't sound unusual for an average gymnast either. It takes months, so I doubt it has anything to do with this other child. Also, the beam situation implies that your coach is not rational. What would be the reason for that? Surely she wouldn't want her favorite to get hurt or learn wrong by going to high beam just for the sake of going to high beam. Most likely she sends the child because she is strong enough to do it and it makes the low beam station less crowded.

We have several low beams, a couple of them are foam beams, two are normal floor beams ans some beam mats, not every girl can do a back walkover in the floor yet so are working on these via different stations like kickover down a wedge mat or higher surface, bridge kick overs from the ground, only a few work on back walkovers on beams

 

[z2akids]

I am not there and I can not really say what is going on. And, I won't convince you that this could be normal training. But, it saddens me to read that you have multiple parents so invested in the training process that they are counting the turns that other people's children are getting. And, gossiping about them and speaking negatively about other kids. Kind of leaves you wondering what they say to each other about your DD getting spotted when their DD'S are not. The descriptions you give sound more like a gym with jealous parents than necessarily a coach showing favoritism. We have a couple of family members of our team who stay all the time. They know how many turns every child gets on the equipment and are sure to stir the pot by telling other parents. They are sucking the love of gym right out of their girls and one quit this year. These problems are much more prominent in the preteam and level 3 with some bleeding into level 4. By optionals the parents all see just grateful that their kids are healthy and progressing.

If this girl is cheating, it will catch up with her. As for the wider beam being easier, my DD says this isn't true for her. She can throw a BwO on the lowest beam, but even with the fat pad, cannot on the high beam. It is the height of the beam, not the width that is her nemesis.

 

[xxStumpyxx]

These parents also do not watch they stay 30 mins or so and then go, I should imagine they have been told this stuff from their daughters. With the beam I think doing the back walkover on the wider beam is easier as you don't have to have your hands to close together, but I don't know what I am talking about.

Going back to the original post, you do have some parents (not many) who are very close to the head coach or a few coaches, they talk to them every chance they can and socialise with them as well and even have enough power to plant a few seeds to see off a few coaches, I think good luck to them, it will all blow up on their faces in the end.

Please don't get me wrong about my daughter group, it is a nice group and all the girls get along and the parents do too, I was just worried that what the girls and the parents are noticing (wether it means nothing ) will cause issues in my group. I have listened to what you more experienced mums (and dads?) have to say and will just ignore what I hear unless something blatant and in your face happens, can't see it though.

 

[Cartwheelmom]

My DD came home yesterday from practice in tears. With her hormones out of whack right now, I can't tell how much is true and how much she is exaggerating. There are 6 girls in her level most of them are 10-12 the youngest is eight. The youngest one likes to be the boss and is very mean to the girls especially toward my daughter and anther girl. Both of them have said that they want to quit cause of this girl. The couches have gotten on to her but nothing is changing.

Has anyone else been through this? How did you handle it?

 

[gymdog]

I do not watch very often, the reason I noticed and others parents noticed was we recently had viewing week, I do understand that my daughter will get it when she gets it, she is the one frustrated. The beam things was weird, I am going my what my daughter has told me, that the girl just decided to take herself on the wide high beam. This girl will often cheat according to my daughter, she will do less of what they are supposed to do (like instead doing something 3 times she does it once unless the coach is watching), I have only witnessed this once during viewing week. My daughter does get annoyed when this girl cheats but I tell my daughter that she will only be hurting herself in the long run as long as she doesn't cheat. I always tell my daughter 3 things, work hard, listen and try your best.

Doesn't sound like a kid that would be a favorite of a coach then anyway, and I'm not sure I understand what the beam situation is. A bwo on any kind of high beam is harder than it is on the floor and coaches won't out a kid on a wide high beam without making sure they can do it on a foam beam first because a fall is always more dangerous from a height. I would hope the coach is monitoring this, perhaps she caught the girl and told her to stop, who knows.

Quite frankly, I think other parents are bothered that this kid comes twice a week and cheats or whatever it may be and sounds way more advanced than the rest of the group (if this kid is voluntarily attempting walkovers on any high beam and other kids are doing kickover down a wedge, then she is way, way, way more advanced). But it doesn't surprise me because every kid develops at a different rate and this is often most apparent in developmental groups (for example, when I start a preteam, at the end of the year, some girls will remain in preteam while some will go to level 4, some to level 3, so you essentially have three levels). Everyone has the same opportunity, but some kids progress much faster, or are older. I will take kids up to about age 9 and as young as 5. So obviously there's a lot going on. Parents often have mistaken assumptions that their child "isn't getting to" work on something. But I simply use a system of progressions that isn't capped so if a child is able to do something, they work on something harder. This means some kids will learn the entire menu of level 4 skills in preteam, while others will not even master the pre-level 3 requirements to move on. You have the perfect storm of huge variability and parents who really don't understand how it works.

I once had a parent make the same exact complaint, other girls were "getting to" do roundoff back handsprings, and when was her daughter going to get to try? Meanwhile her daughter literally couldn't do a standing back handspring without being carried. I didn't have any reason to prevent her daughter from doing it, but she just had no back hand springing skills yet, while the other girls had their standing handsprings already. It's really not about "trying" but parents always assume their child could do something if they just got to "try", it is very difficult for them to understand it really doesn't work that way.

 

[profmom]

The beam things was weird, I am going my what my daughter has told me, that the girl just decided to take herself on the wide high beam. This girl will often cheat according to my daughter, she will do less of what they are supposed to do (like instead doing something 3 times she does it once unless the coach is watching), . . . My daughter does get annoyed when this girl cheats but I tell my daughter that she will only be hurting herself in the long run as long as she doesn't cheat. I always tell my daughter 3 things, work hard, listen and try your best.

There is something else very important that you need to tell your daughter. She needs to focus on herself and her own progression in gymnastics and stop worrying about what skills other kids may or may not have and what conditioning they may or may not be doing. Her only yardstick should be herself. I'd strongly advise you to nip in the bud the kind of talk you are reporting above rather than validating it by encouraging your DD to see the girl as doing wrong. As she moves forward in the sport, she will find that everyone progresses at her/his own rate and that things get hard for everyone somewhere eventually. The other thing she will find is that when (not if) things do get hard, they are one heck of a lot easier if your teammates are in your corner.

Look, I know it's hard and I have certainly spent some time with a child frustrated over this, that, or the other thing. Even the absolute best kid in the world is going to a bit jealous of a kid who is working on more advanced skills if s/he feels stuck. And it's likewise hard when a kid is all excited about getting something but has to be sensitive to those to whom it's not coming easily. But learning how to cope with both sides is an important life lesson. If they learn it well, the group can become one where everyone is genuinely happy when anyone advances, whether it's doing an unspotted back handspring connected to a roundoff or putting a first double full twist on the floor -- and genuinely celebratory whether that person is the first or the last in the group to accomplish it. Right now, the parents who are vocally worrying about who's getting how many spots for what are actively going against their own kids' best interests in the long run.

Cartwheelmom, I think if I were you, I'd advise your DD to get the older girls in the group to deal politely but firmly with the eight year old. Perhaps it's just that the boys are more used to dealing with workout groups mixing ages, but the teenagers in DS's workout group will only tolerate so much from a younger guy. The younger guys look up to the older guys and settle down pretty quickly. Now, I know that older girls aren't as likely to threaten to throw a younger girl into the pit or break her (things with which DS was threatened when he first joined his current group), but they can, as a group, draw some lines. It's hard to know what to advise without knowing what an eight year old could be doing to make twelve and thirteen year olds cry and want to quit, but saying things like, "Why would you say such a thing?" or "You need to be kinder to people who are in your workout group," or "If you continue to talk that way, you're going to find yourself pretty lonely during water breaks," may be enough. Again -- good life lesson.

 

[xxStumpyxx]

Doesn't sound like a kid that would be a favorite of a coach then anyway, and I'm not sure I understand what the beam situation is. A bwo on any kind of high beam is harder than it is on the floor and coaches won't out a kid on a wide high beam without making sure they can do it on a foam beam first because a fall is always more dangerous from a height. I would hope the coach is monitoring this, perhaps she caught the girl and told her to stop, who knows.

Quite frankly, I think other parents are bothered that this kid comes twice a week and cheats or whatever it may be and sounds way more advanced than the rest of the group (if this kid is voluntarily attempting walkovers on any high beam and other kids are doing kickover down a wedge, then she is way, way, way more advanced). But it doesn't surprise me because every kid develops at a different rate and this is often most apparent in developmental groups (for example, when I start a preteam, at the end of the year, some girls will remain in preteam while some will go to level 4, some to level 3, so you essentially have three levels). Everyone has the same opportunity, but some kids progress much faster, or are older. I will take kids up to about age 9 and as young as 5. So obviously there's a lot going on. Parents often have mistaken assumptions that their child "isn't getting to" work on something. But I simply use a system of progressions that isn't capped so if a child is able to do something, they work on something harder. This means some kids will learn the entire menu of level 4 skills in preteam, while others will not even master the pre-level 3 requirements to move on. You have the perfect storm of huge variability and parents who really don't understand how it works.

I once had a parent make the same exact complaint, other girls were "getting to" do roundoff back handsprings, and when was her daughter going to get to try? Meanwhile her daughter literally couldn't do a standing back handspring without being carried. I didn't have any reason to prevent her daughter from doing it, but she just had no back hand springing skills yet, while the other girls had their standing handsprings already. It's really not about "trying" but parents always assume their child could do something if they just got to "try", it is very difficult for them to understand it really doesn't work that way.

Thanks for your advice, things seemed ok today, no one said anything out of the way, I think it is because they are all now working on their routines for their competition, I think my daughter picked up on what this other girls was doing because she is a rule follower, she will not attempt anything unless she is told to do. Going back to the other girl, she is not way advanced, very similar level to my daughter except the round off back handspring and a couple of other things, there is one two girls out of the 6 who started who are on the bridge kickover down a wedge stage, they also cannot do standing back ends despite being in development groups for 1-2 years (ages 9-10), that is their journey and I am sure they will make progress, this girl who I spoke about does stuff at home, her dad told me that she does a lot of things in her garden at home.

I think some of the niggles and close watching was because this is a newish group and the coach is young, inexperienced and not qualified yet to take her own group, the parents were watching to make sure the girls are ok, hopefully as time goes by they will become more comfortable and not watch closely when they are there, we have a level 2 men's coach working with us and also there to support the unqualified coach while she is working towards her qualifications, who turned out to be great with the girls.

 

[xxStumpyxx]

My DD came home yesterday from practice in tears. With her hormones out of whack right now, I can't tell how much is true and how much she is exaggerating. There are 6 girls in her level most of them are 10-12 the youngest is eight. The youngest one likes to be the boss and is very mean to the girls especially toward my daughter and anther girl. Both of them have said that they want to quit cause of this girl. The couches have gotten on to her but nothing is changing.

Has anyone else been through this? How did you handle it?

I am going through something similar with my oldest daughter, she has been getting hastle from a younger team mate, this younger team mate was ok at first then started invading my daughters personal space, teasing my daughter about her short size, teasing her about her gymnastics and jumping on the equipment when my daughter is on it, like bars for example, if my daughter is on the bars this girl will come along and jump on the bars at the same time. My daughter has been getting sick of the way this girl treats her and has spoke about quitting over this, she tried talking to the coach who just told her so and so is only 6 you have to make allowances for her behaviour, my daughter was annoyed about this but got on with it, this girl continued to tease my daughter and in the end I called a meeting with the coach about this, things have been better over the last few practices, hopefully things will continue this way. We have had a younger girl join the group (ageed 5) and she behaves ok so the coach cannot make excuses for this other girl anymore, this other girl turns 7 within a few weeks.

 

[Midwestmommy]

It gets weirder...

Apparently one of the head coaches said....with a straight face.... at a recent parent meeting in front of over 20 parents (and their kids).... That this group of kids needs to aim higher, not settle. That's OK, not a bad point. Here's the kicker... He said that being a winner means being on top of the podium. And everyone else not on the top of the podium is a loser. What? Straight outta dance moms, huh? This at a gym that is smaller and practices relatively fewer hours and has one of "those" gyms nearby that attracts lots of talented kids from other gyms, do lots of hours, and well are usually are at the top of the podium. So he basically called all the kids in the room losers. How is this motivating in any way? This seems so misguided that it should be in a comedy movie or something. Takes all kinds.

 

[Anna's_Mom]

It gets weirder...

Apparently one of the head coaches said....with a straight face.... at a recent parent meeting in front of over 20 parents (and their kids).... That this group of kids needs to aim higher, not settle. That's OK, not a bad point. Here's the kicker... He said that being a winner means being on top of the podium. And everyone else not on the top of the podium is a loser. What? Straight outta dance moms, huh? This at a gym that is smaller and practices relatively fewer hours and has one of "those" gyms nearby that attracts lots of talented kids from other gyms, do lots of hours, and well are usually are at the top of the podium. So he basically called all the kids in the room losers. How is this motivating in any way? This seems so misguided that it should be in a comedy movie or something. Takes all kinds.

Yuck! I'm not sure what you are describing in general meets my definition of bullying, but it also sounds like awful coaching. Repeated, belittling comments would definitely make me think twice about continuing with the gym. The emphasis on winning, rather than working hard and doing your best, would definitely not sit well with me. I guess people are motivated by different things and this might be right for some girls/families, but not for me or DD.

Bullying, to me, implies singling out one person and working to make her life miserable through physical or emotional harm. That's different from bad coaching, poor motivation techniques or showing favoritism. Bullying is such a strong focus and accusation right now in schools, so I think it is important to use the word wisely.