When leos distract from the gymnastics

[kecks]

respect? respect is shown by accepting that other people have different standards than you have. this means accepting their choices instead of policing them for not complying with your personal moral standards (i personally think that it is very harmful for young women to be taught that their body is something to be ashamed of and that they are prey for men or something like that - and you *do* teach this by implying that clothing can be "too high cut" or whatever. but again, that's just me!) everyone should decide for themselves what to wear while respecting the rules fo the chosen sport, and that's it.

 

[profmom]

IF WE TALKED ABOUT MEN'S GYM AS WE TALK ABOUT WOMEN'S GYM

Has anyone noticed that the US men's singlets this year are much lower cut around the arms? I think they expose way too much of the men's chests. If you go to USAG's photos of podium training, there's one of Marvin Kimble on hi bar that is almost a wardrobe malfunction! I know he's 19, but that's still pretty young. They're cut down practically to the middle of their torsos!

And those shorts -- they are so short. I get there's a dilemma between having them wear the short tight ones, which can look kind of, you know, or the looser ones like the Japanese men, that sometimes ride up and give you a little too much of a view, but this year, they've gone too far in the short direction IMHO.

And perhaps we should just pass over in silence the way that some of the pommel pants' cuts seem to . . . emphasize the package. That is just total creeper fodder right there.

While we're talking, I think Chris Brooks' haircut is just awful. What was he thinking? Someone should help him with his hair. Product alone isn't going to do it; he needs a professional to work on it. And OMG, did you see Paul Ruggeri's tattoos? Do you think that shows disrespect for the sport or is it simply his way of being distinctive? Maybe he should wear a long-sleeved singlet so that the tattoo is covered. What do you think?

 

[JessSyd]

Profmum, I see your point, but it would be a more apt analogy if men and women were starting in a position of equality in the first place.

For some reason, men manage to compete track, beach volleyball and gymnastics without requiring high cut briefs, Brazilian waxes, or transparent mesh panels in areas that then require invisible lining so they are merely suggestive, and not actually inappropriate for TV broadcast.

Why is it, that before the female competitors even walk out onto the floor their superficial aesthetics are a thing? I think it would be very disingenuous to try to argue that women's competition leotards are simply utilitarian in the way that men's outfits tend to be.

When individuals make choices, then whatevs. They have leotard contracts to think about, and personal levels of comfort with various costumes. But when senior sports officials think it ok to send kids out to compete in outfits that suggest that maybe a boob could fall out, then why shouldn't we question it?

I don't see any issue with discussing or questioning this issue. As you have pointed out, men get to compete without all the rubbish you mentioned above. Sure there is a chicken and egg argument to be made - maybe if people didn't talk about leotards, they wouldn't matter. But even if we weren't discussing it here, it wouldn't have changed the fact that somehow it has become necessary to dress up (in a way that suggests undressing, even) women to compete as if a simple leotard and awesome skills somehow isn't enough.

Why shouldn't we, as mothers of the next generation of gymnasts, say 'too far' if that is what we think. Certainly when my girl competes, I would prefer the audience to be going 'cool skills' not 'Poor girl, I hope that is lined'.

Maybe if there wasn't the emphasis on female gymnasts wearing such brief outfits, there wouldn't be quite as many threads on chalkbucket debating the pros and cons of bar shorts. It is clear from those threads that actually, many girls in gymnastics have to compete in substantially less clothing than they are actually comfortable in. Why exacerbate that with ultra high cuts, slender crotches, and transparent panels.

And as you have pointed out, the argument about 'lines' doesn't explain it, and won't until suddenly men have to compete in high cut leotards too.

 

[Flossyduck]

I have watched qualifying and the leos looked fine to me, from a modesty viewpoint. I'm not a fan of the colours myself, but they have a thick white inner skin and the mesh over and there is no question you ever get the impression that a "boob is going to fall out". I personally think it looks worse in the stills, but looks fine in reality.
I hadn't even noticed they were high cut until it was pointed out on here, then I suppose I can see that they are but it doesn't offend me. They didn't seem worse than many of the others - the Romanians all had wedgies, which I did notice - the GB girls didn't seem to be hanging out of anywhere.
My daughter's response - 'yuk, too pink. If I made it to worlds I'd have to refuse to wear that'. Good job that won't be a problem then!

 

[JessSyd]

Yes, it suddenly occured to me that it might be the flash used for taking the still photos that was creating the illusion of excessive transparency in a way that wouldn't happen in real life. Some of the stills really are shockers, but in at least one of the, the mesh panels look sort of dark and sparkly and actually quite lovely.

 

[Redford]

That is tolerance. Tolerance and respect are two different things. Grundsatzdiskussion. I'd be happy to continue from teacher to teacher, but I would like to do so in German. PM me if you want to.
I really, really do not think gymnastics is teaching our kids to be ashamed of their bodies. Really not.
I think if the international community agrees on wearing a leotard, this leotard should fit the child and it should cover the areas it is worn for. Period.

 

[munchkin3]

Kecks......I agree with what you are saying, but I just can't shake these feelings.....I don't want my DD going out and competing in a leotard that is high cut, or low cut......I want everything to stay in.....
This is gymnastics......not a fashion show, and these girls are out there putting their bodies through the toughest treatment possible......why should a leotard take away from that?
I am a leotard junkie.....love em......there are many ways to look fantastic, while keeping all the necessary parts in....

 

[kecks]

Kecks......I agree with what you are saying, but I just can't shake these feelings.....I don't want my DD going out and competing in a leotard that is high cut, or low cut......I want everything to stay in.....
This is gymnastics......not a fashion show, and these girls are out there putting their bodies through the toughest treatment possible......why should a leotard take away from that?
I am a leotard junkie.....love em......there are many ways to look fantastic, while keeping all the necessary parts in....

i guess these are the cultural differences i was talking about . i just don't care about the body parts being in or out, i care about gymnastics!

 

[Muddlethru]

If distracting from the sport is the issue, ugly, "loud" leos are equally (if not more in my opinion) distractive than "provocative" ones. No issues here with any leos I've seen as far as being high cut, as long as they don't get massive wedgies! I like watching long lines in the legs. So if the leos help create these lines, and they certainly do, so be it. In fact, I find the overly modest way some local girls wear their leos (pulling them past the leg line) more distracting because the legs look too short. I pay attention to the girls gymnastics and have never looked forward to seeing the parade of leos. If you look for for offensive leos, and something to criticize, you will find it. I would only have an issue with any "provocative" leo if my daughter or the gymnast had an objection to it.

 

[Redford]

i guess these are the cultural differences i was talking about . i just don't care about the body parts being in or out, i care about gymnastics!

Which is great. It certainly helped you enjoy GBs fantastic performance. But other people/cultures might care and you show respect for their view by keeping the body parts in.
We should all go for black, standard leotards. No offense, no distraction, no parading. And it would be al lot cheaper too.

 

[Midwestmommy]

Well to answer the question in the post, when it causes wardrobe malfunctions or makes a majority of young fans and parents cringe, that's when it has gone too far.

Any NCAA gymnastics fan has probably witnessed the wardrobe malfunctions resulting from misguided attempts at fashion that make us embarrassed and feel terrible for the young women out there competing amazing floor routines while pretending such malfunction isn't happening. Always makes me shake my head, totally unnecessary.

But then I've also seen coaches wearing very low V necks for televised meets which also makes me cringe at a middle aged woman looking what we would call looking a little desperate if they were at a bar somewhere. It all just seems a little unnecessary in a sport where other than the Olympics most of the fans are young and tons of them are children..

 

[Learning Parent GB]

Interesting to see the mixed responses. I do think that the stills look different to when they are actually competing in them.

I so very nearly didn't post because I hate that people talk about the leotards rather than the gymnastics. But I would have equally commented had a man's outfit been as revealing. Possibly very British of me, but we have a general rule that if it would be covered by underwear it should be covered by a costume - whatever the sport, production etc.

And profmom, we have been noticing that there seem to be more and more tattoos on display these days. But on both men and women. We actually wondered if there had been a rule change where they used to need to be covered but now are acceptable. The most distracting thing about a tattoo for me is when I can't tell what it is because I am just plain nosey.

 

[Learning Parent GB]

If you look for for offensive leos, and something to criticize, you will find it. I would only have an issue with any "provocative" leo if my daughter or the gymnast had an objection to it.

I certainly wasn't looking for it though. I could comment on all sorts of loud and distracting leos, but this cropped up because I was looking through photos on FB and at least one member of my family was embarrassed to have seen them. And the last thing I want to do is criticise these girls who train so hard and our daughters look up to.

 

[B&M's mom]

The interesting part of this discussion is that the gymnasts probably don't view the leos as a problem except for possibly the color and sleeve length. Last night I talked to my older teenaged gymnast about the controversy. She didn't see a problem with the Leos. After wearing a leo practically everyday since she was five, she's used to wedgies and expects them. Its very difficult to do the type of skills they are doing and not expect fabric to shift. She actually prefers the higher cut leg to show off her lines, she thinks the lower cut legs make a funny line at the hip.

Mesh is also not an issue as far as she's concerned. Many teenagers now wear lace shirts with a tank or other top underneath. Mesh is essentially the same thing in their mind. They don't equate it with a certain type of look, it's just another texture.

I don't think that I've seen an immodest leo in all the years I've gone to meets. Have I seen leos that ride up, certainly but they weren't intentionally designed to do so. If the reason for wearing a leo is to be able to do certain skills to get a good score, the last thing the coach would do is to put the girls in a Leo that made that impossible. Worrying about body parts falling out is not conducive to scoring highly. Also, a leo that looks great on one girl may not on another because of differences in body type. Custom made leos might be the only way around that problem and given how much standard competition leos cost, I'm not sure anyone would want to go that route.

Growing up I was and still am, very body conscious. I've noticed with my girls that they don't have the same "hang ups" I have. They are much more body accepting than I am. That's not to say that they wear leos outside the gym. In fact, they are very concerned about buying anything they perceive as even slightly revealing. But they view their bodies as strong and healthy and are proud of them. Neither of my girls is embarrassed to put on a Leo to go out and do the most amazing sport which I think is great. And I'd bet that a majority of the gymnasts would feel the same.

 

[Flossyduck]

Part of the problem with stills is that they freeze the moment for you to have a good long look at it - whether that's legs apart or in needle scale etc. And some of them are just not flattering, whatever the cut of your leo! The image quality of stills taken from moving routines is just so high these days. I've seen one or two of my daughter on bars at a comp, captured by the professional photographers here and decided they weren't what I would want on facebook and her leo is perfectly appropriate!
When you watch the actual routines, the leos seem fine - there is nothing obviously hanging out, no big wedgies or anything like that. And even the cut looks ok in reality to me. Having watched qualifying I hadn't given it a second thought before coming on here and was surprised by the comments.

 

[profmom]

OK, I will say this much about leos, as the live feed has just started. NOOOOOOO, MARTA! I HATE PINK!!!!!! Loved the guys' podium training gear, especially the red pommel pants/socks. (And so glad that we don't have red pommel pants, for which we must hunt up matching socks.)

 

[gymgal]

sorry, but when they can't even walk down a flight of stairs without getting a wedgie (USA team, just now), the leo doesn't fit right. To me it is not about modesty, it is about how the leo should fit. Leos are not made to give gymnasts wedgies and thongs while tumbling. If they do, they are the wrong cut/size for that girl. And if they are made to do that, then you wouldn't see the girls picking at their leos after a routine.

As for the mesh, that is so common place even in JO now. We see them all the time. Most people in the gym world know that there is a nude color liner under it.

And I am SOOOOOO tired of the pink and purple! I really hope the colors retire with Marta

 

[Redford]

Change of topic: Can someone explain to me if there is a deeper, cultural reason for the US-girls always wearing pink?

 

[sce]

When individuals make choices, then whatevs. They have leotard contracts to think about, and personal levels of comfort with various costumes. But when senior sports officials think it ok to send kids out to compete in outfits that suggest that maybe a boob could fall out, then why shouldn't we question it?

I don't see any issue with discussing or questioning this issue. As you have pointed out, men get to compete without all the rubbish you mentioned above. Sure there is a chicken and egg argument to be made - maybe if people didn't talk about leotards, they wouldn't matter. But even if we weren't discussing it here, it wouldn't have changed the fact that somehow it has become necessary to dress up (in a way that suggests undressing, even) women to compete as if a simple leotard and awesome skills somehow isn't enough.

Why shouldn't we, as mothers of the next generation of gymnasts, say 'too far' if that is what we think. Certainly when my girl competes, I would prefer the audience to be going 'cool skills' not 'Poor girl, I hope that is lined'.

Love this!

 

[gymbeam]

im in usa and would like to know, too