Parents Why don’t parents protest?

[gymnastmom05]

Link Removed

They’re not very expensive in my opinion when split amongst competing gymnasts as a part of the meet fee.

Last year our 330ish gymnast meet we hosted for two days- the cost of the judges (fees, mileage and payment - we actually have to pay our state judges a fee just for them to assign judges to our event) was just over $4700 for the two day meet. Then we had $1200 in hotel expenses for their rooms for two nights. None of those costs include food for all 3 meals, both days. Some of those were donated, some were purchased based on what we could get. We used to have parents bring in food. And then judges complained that they would rather have store/restaurant food. We’re in a small gym state. The judges pretty much get what they want...

 

[MILgymFAM]

Last year our 330ish gymnast meet we hosted for two days- the cost of the judges (fees, mileage and payment - we actually have to pay our state judges a fee just for them to assign judges to our event) was just over $4700 for the two day meet. Then we had $1200 in hotel expenses for their rooms for two nights. None of those costs include food for all 3 meals, both days. Some of those were donated, some were purchased based on what we could get. We used to have parents bring in food. And then judges complained that they would rather have store/restaurant food. We’re in a small gym state. The judges pretty much get what they want...

That’s $18 per gymnast of their meet fees. Probably $20 for paid food. That actually just illustrates my point.

 

[gymisforeveryone]

The meets our gym hosts, the gymnast entry fee is close to covering the expenses of the meet. We make our profit off of the others things - sponsors, ads, programs, admission fee, concessions, vendors, good luck grams, etc.

This is how we do it. Entry fee for gymnasts is not allowed to cost more than 30 euros per gymnast if you register on time. If you do it late then it's 60 euros.

Some gyms have started to have spectator fees and I don't like that trend. I have seen 20 euros per family or 5 euros per adult. We don't do it.

By the way, how are other kid sports in the USA? Do you usually have spectator fees for let's say soccer or base ball games?

 

[MILgymFAM]

This is how we do it. Entry fee for gymnasts is not allowed to cost more than 30 euros per gymnast if you register on time. If you do it late then it's 60 euros.

Some gyms have started to have spectator fees and I don't like that trend. I have seen 20 euros per family or 5 euros per adult. We don't do it.

By the way, how are other kid sports in the USA? Do you usually have spectator fees for let's say soccer or base ball games?

No. The only other place I’ve ever paid a fee to watch a child’s activity is the arts: a play or a ballet. The costs vary wildly there as well, as I’ve paid between $2 and $30 per ticket.

 

[amiandjim]

We have had to pay fees to get into some of our son’s cross country races.

 

[OzZee]

In my state of Australia, competitions are fairly simple events. Only the ones run by the state gymnastics body are at a fancy venue (a large gym with a spectator area), which already owns all the necessary equipment. The rest are simple affairs in local gyms. Scores are not flashed, and existing PAs (the same ones used for playing floor music during training) are sufficient. I have only ever paid a spectator fee at State level competitions.

There is no swag, competitions medal to third and ribbon to sixth. Gyms take turns to host and competitions do not run for profit. I do not know who pays the judges. I suspect that for sanctioned competitions it is the gym that provides them who pays but someone else might know for sure.

Do meets here provide food for judges? Often judges only do one session then they have to change clothes and become a coach for the next session. I know there is no hospitality for coaches - I have seen them grab a sandwich from their bags between sessions and have, on occasion, given food to a coach that didn't have time to buy herself lunch between sessions when a meet was running late.

In my experience: Judges are generally paid by the hosting gym for invitationals. By gymnsw for their hosted events. (with clubs having to provide a judge or pay a fine)
Judges are often provided snacks - sweets and water - provided by the gym (always in RG). A lot of invitationals will provide food - I've seen a variety from stuff from the (club/parent committee run fund raising) food stall, parents providing food (I remember one where someone brought in slow cookers of soup and stuff), platters of cheese/crackers etc.
Non coaching judges are often on for all sessions so it's a long long day.
Also not really seen coaches fed, though when I ran comps we did offer. (our own coaches were more likely to take up the offer than other clubs, lol)

I will sort of disagree with the non profit thing. Even though we don't do all those extra things the US comps do, invitationals do tend to make a decent profit (from entry fees and food stall - mostly due to parent volunteers baking/cooking/bbqing etc) for gyms (well in Aus gym terms, nothing like what the US people would be talking).

 

[gymnastmom05]

That’s $18 per gymnast of their meet fees. Probably $20 for paid food. That actually just illustrates my point.

Just the judges cost, the facility rental and the equipment rental is over $50 per gymnast. There are other expenses as well. Our state dictates our awards. As much as “keeping up with the jones isn’t fun”, people expect a nice, clean place, enough parking, plenty of bathrooms, food etc. They wouldn’t come back if we didn’t “wow” them, as much as that stinks to say. If ALL meets weren’t like this, the expectation wouldn’t be there but they are and taking the risk of making changes is a gamble with parents money and time (our booster club hosts the meet).

 

[OzZee]

Just the judges cost, the facility rental and the equipment rental is over $50 per gymnast. There are other expenses as well. Our state dictates our awards. As much as “keeping up with the jones isn’t fun”, people expect a nice, clean place, enough parking, plenty of bathrooms, food etc. They wouldn’t come back if we didn’t “wow” them, as much as that stinks to say. If ALL meets weren’t like this, the expectation wouldn’t be there but they are and taking the risk of making changes is a gamble with parents money and time (our booster club hosts the meet).

I think that's the thing, it's expectations.
Here (other than state held meets) they are in gyms. Parking is likely to be problematic, toilets impossible (most gyms have 1-2), food from non-existent to a bbq and cake stall, no goodie bags. The kids go to compete. Depending on the level and the comp there will be ribbons and maybe some medals (1-3 medals 3-6 ribbons, though some comps in WAG are doing more medals or even trophies; some only do ribbons; some only one ribbon for all round; some one medal for all round; some for the low levels do participation ribbons/medals eg there is a score band and you get a gold/silver/bronze medal or ribbon depending on band).
The kids don't seem to care regardless of what they get.

 

[gymyogimom]

Judges Link Removed - at least 9 judges (2 per event, plus a head judge)
Food - assume 300-500 per meal if catered
Location if it isn't at the gym (and if at a gym, the cost to cancel rec classes for the weekend) - I've seen upwards of $20,000 per weekend, think of the cost to rent a ball room for a wedding, multiply that by at least 4 for set up day through sunday night
Gym equipment - 10k for two gyms, some do 1, some do more.
Sanction - 150?
Insurance for off-site
$1 per gymnast to usag
$1 per gymnast to the state
Not sure if the region also asks for a cut.
Gift $2-20
Medals $1 or more per medal.
Trophies
Proscore or other license
Live scoring costs money
If you do live score, you may need to pay for dedicated wifi use that day...

It adds up. If the meet isn't big, then yes, spectator fees is what makes it worth hosting the meet. This is why some gyms don't host meets. It's a risk to have a meet.

 

[gymdog]

A person who would be in a position to know once told our booster club that meets average $50 per gymnast in profits in our area. There are booster clubs that supposedly fund the entire season’s competition expenses by hosting one or two meets.

Hm I've never heard of that. Although meets can be very profitable. However, some meets in our states donate the profits to charity.

 

[3rd_time_around]

We have had to pay fees to get into some of our son’s cross country races.

Yep! I have to pay to watch my son's band competitions, my daughter's cheer competitions, all the high school football, basketball, track, softball, baseball, cross country, tennis, soccer...... You name it. I had to pay to watch my middle school son play soccer at his and other schools. I had to pay to watch my 2nd grader cheer at peewee football games. The only places I've not paid to watch my kids play sports is the local recreation department.

 

[3rd_time_around]

1

 

[raenndrops]

That’s $18 per gymnast of their meet fees. Probably $20 for paid food. That actually just illustrates my point.

But unless they were using 8 Brevet Judges, it shouldn't have been that much. For 8 Brevet Judges (With the head judge being one of the actual judges), not including the state fee to get them assigned, would be $4552.40 (9.5 judging hours a day) ... and I can't see a small state sending ALL Brevet judges when they can send L10 Rated judges for less. Total max Per Diem is $640 for the 8 judges ... and per diem is actually supposed to be to cover food. I am going with 300 mile round trip for each judge and NO carpooling, even though I know there is something about them supposed to be carpooling if possible, so I got $1296 for mileage.
That all adds up to $5752.40 / 330 gymnasts = $17.44 per gymnast.

 

[gymyogimom]

But unless they were using 8 Brevet Judges, it shouldn't have been that much. For 8 Brevet Judges (With the head judge being one of the actual judges), not including the state fee to get them assigned, would be $4552.40 (9.5 judging hours a day) ... and I can't see a small state sending ALL Brevet judges when they can send L10 Rated judges for less. Total max Per Diem is $640 for the 8 judges ... and per diem is actually supposed to be to cover food. I am going with 300 mile round trip for each judge and NO carpooling, even though I know there is something about them supposed to be carpooling if possible, so I got $1296 for mileage.
That all adds up to $5752.40 / 330 gymnasts = $17.44 per gymnast.

Don't forget judges hotels. Some share, some don't. Some locales require union labor for set up and take down. Not all meets are huge money makers.
So say $100 per gymnast
$2 - state/usag
$17 - judges
$2 - medals (top 50 percent, and the generally order a few extea, butbut be conservative here)
$15 - venue (going super cheap at 330 gymnasts and 5000 venue, which is doubtful)
$3 - coach/judges food (being conservative and saying 1000 for the weekend)
$2 - team trophies (assuming just medals for all around, since trophies for all around get expensive)

Plus insurance, gymnast gift and rental of equipment and all the incidentals. Do they have to rent linens for the tables? Back drops for behind bleachers if that's where vendors set up? What about backdrop for awards? Basically, without 700 athletes, I don't think gyms who host at an external site make money without a charge to view.
That $100 dwindles quickly.

 

[MILgymFAM]

Don't forget judges hotels. Some share, some don't. Some locales require union labor for set up and take down. Not all meets are huge money makers.
So say $100 per gymnast
$2 - state/usag
$17 - judges
$2 - medals (top 50 percent, and the generally order a few extea, butbut be conservative here)
$15 - venue (going super cheap at 330 gymnasts and 5000 venue, which is doubtful)
$3 - coach/judges food (being conservative and saying 1000 for the weekend)
$2 - team trophies (assuming just medals for all around, since trophies for all around get expensive)

Plus insurance, gymnast gift and rental of equipment and all the incidentals. Do they have to rent linens for the tables? Back drops for behind bleachers if that's where vendors set up? What about backdrop for awards? Basically, without 700 athletes, I don't think gyms who host at an external site make money without a charge to view.
That $100 dwindles quickly.

That shows a profit of $59 per athlete, unless I miscalculated. So with 300 girls (a small meet, in our experience) they’ve profited $17,000 on one weekend, and it goes up from there with more girls. That’s without door charges, raffles, concessions, kick back from vendors, etc. They’re not exactly losing money here. If they’re not making any money- and I’ve seen the numbers for a booster that made almost no money at all for meets (they were the host, not the gym)- then they are doing something wrong (in their case overpaying to rent the gym as it was held in house- but hey, the gym still made a profit). I guess the debate then becomes how much profit do they need to make it worth it. That’s a moving target, obviously. Anyway, I’m done with the meet fee debate because it’s all opinions and we could go round and round forever.

I initially started this post because I believe that uniforms and their costs have gone off the rails. To turn it into meets cost money and I’m just a mean cheapo who wants gymnastics to be free, well that’s just silly. I don’t have decades of dealing with this sport or anything, but I have had a wildly varied experience across many gyms in three states and two regions. Seeing the differences within one place and from place to place firsthand has been eye opening as to how much more cheaply things can be done (since I’ve experienced them). That’s it. I’ve never wanted owners or coaches to starve or anything, just consider that for frivolous things like leos and shoes and bags, spending so much money just because they want to keep up with trends or because they think bling is a competitive advantage- or just because they thing it’s pretty- that comes out of my budget and effects my family. Keeping it simple and less expensive affects no one negatively. That’s all I got.

 

[2G1B]

I have been part of a bc hosting meets for the past 6 years. We charge admission. We provide food for coaches and judges. We pay for hotels for judges. We do provide a gymnast gift. Our profits are more in the $10-$15 per gymnast range. When we have hosted in house we have still had to rent some equipment as our high bar wasn't right in some way. We also had to account for the gym having to cancel parties and practices. We now host at a venue. That means renting all equipment. And paying for the venue. Gymnast gifts are maybe $5 per gymnast. That isn't a huge part of the expense. Medals are a huge expense. Food for judges and coaches is a huge expense.

And being that most of us are at for profit gyms (excluding those at Ys), I don't understand at all why there should be an expectation that booster clubs or gyms wouldn't make money on hosting meets. The amount of work that goes into hosting them is huge. I'm not going to give up 3 days of a weekend, the entire day, plus all of the prep leading up, just out of the goodness of my heart.

As for the cost to parents to get in... I have paid to get into football games, cheer comps, wrestling matches, basketball games, swim meets, etc. I completely understand paying to get into a gymnastics competition. Though, if a gym is charging more than $10 for entry they do, IMo, need to suck up the cost and take credit cards. I was at one that was $25 per person and they only took cash. That is absurd IMO.

 

[TumbleTimes4]

Getting back to the cost of comp leos, I wonder if we will see a price increase with GK releasing the new crystals that are supposed to sparkle even more. I gotta imagine there’s going to be a nice price tag with those.

I really hope not. Our gym has been fairly reasonable so far. Our bags stay the same and were a one time purchase. The warm ups have also stayed the same so it’s possible to buy used from older team members. Our Leo this year was $200 and we keep them for two years. I can live with $100 a year.

 

[gymnastmom05]

One more cost we are getting stuck with this year- we now have to collect tax off of entry fees and spectator admission. So guess what’s going away- different entry prices for kids/seniors, etc. We just don’t know how to easily track it. Plus we have to pay our tax accountant so he can tell us how to handle this/pay the bill to the state. This does make it so it might just be easier to add to the gymnast entry fee and do away with spectator admission BUT we aren’t ready for that this year. I’m sure people will be shocked if we raise our price $20 or so but sometimes it’s out of our control (thank you state law makers!).

 

[kayjaybe]

One more cost we are getting stuck with this year- we now have to collect tax off of entry fees and spectator admission. So guess what’s going away- different entry prices for kids/seniors, etc. We just don’t know how to easily track it. Plus we have to pay our tax accountant so he can tell us how to handle this/pay the bill to the state. This does make it so it might just be easier to add to the gymnast entry fee and do away with spectator admission BUT we aren’t ready for that this year. I’m sure people will be shocked if we raise our price $20 or so but sometimes it’s out of our control (thank you state law makers!).

Why would reporting tax mean you have to do away with different prices? You could up the price by $1 per entry to cover the tax. So if you used to charge $5 & 10, now charge $6 & 11.

If your admissions sales at the end of the weekend are $2000, you pay your tax (whatever %...in my state it is 6%) on the $2000. It doesn’t matter how much of that came from child or adult admissions.

Or am I missing something?

 

[skschlag]

Why would reporting tax mean you have to do away with different prices? You could up the price by $1 per entry to cover the tax. So if you used to charge $5 & 10, now charge $6 & 11.

If your admissions sales at the end of the weekend are $2000, you pay your tax (whatever %...in my state it is 6%) on the $2000. It doesn’t matter how much of that came from child or adult admissions.

Or am I missing something?

I get what you are saying here but I hate when I get to a meet and it is a strange $ amount..like $6, $8, $12....and then, they NEVER have any $1s left. lol. I end up with change, or have to go find ones to pay.