For Parents DD having BIG issues with L5 & thinking about changing gyms - long post sorry.

[misshoneybee]

First of all thank you so much for having this forum. I need some perspective here and I apologize in advance for the long post.

My daughter (10 y/o) started working out last august 12 hours a week as a L4 gymnast. Her coach moved her to L5 in January 2011 she started competing L5. She has had 3 meets so far and her AA scores about 30.

She has been training in a very old gym since last August. I don't know when the last time the floor was replaced. The foam is replaced every 4-6 months. Since August she has developed tendonitis in both wrists and bad tendonitis in both ankles. She practices 12 hours a week. Like most of your daughters and sons - she is VERY passionate about this sport. She is an introvert but thrives on competition and loves the focus required to compete. She doesn't like to talk to much about gymnastics to anyone quite frankly and it is hard for me to get info out of her. We have a pediatric sports medicine doc and she sees her regularly at a very large research institution her in Chicago. Her doc has always said - let pain be your guide.

The gymnastic program that she is in has one coach for about 15 girls (L4 and L5). There is a dance coach that comes in 1 time a month.

This past weekend she had a big meet and did not do well at all. She has no power and no height on any of her skills. Her vault is so painful to watch, she can barely get over the table.

When she was competing L4 - her routines looked completely different - she was strong had power and had height.

When pressed she told me her legs kill her when she runs and tumbles. I think her pain is causing her lose her height and power. She is also a big gymnast (85% of her height group and 50% of her weight). Her coach says it is because she is growing (she has grown a lot over the last 4 months) and that he had pain for 3 years while doing gymnastics at her age.

I just ordered a pair of cheetah's and will order an ASO lace up ankle brace per her doc. Her coach does not want her to wear the supports while training. Her doc wanted her to wear them while training when she has pain. She also wants her to wear tiger paws while vaulting (for the next month to get her through her next meet). After the season she wants her in PT. She has been xrayed, etc. and nothing is showing up.

I am thinking about switching gym's and going to a private gym that has better equipment/mats/floors/foam pit. I am also hoping that by switching gyms she will have the opportunity to work with more than one coach and get some more dance instruction. I feel like her injuries and pain are partially caused by how old her gym equipment is. Is that possible?

Also her current coach is a wonderful in that he is very nurturing but I don't think he really knows the details of the routines and I think she is

Quitting gymnastics at this point is not an option (as far as she is concerned) and her personal goal is to get to optionals. She is so disappointed right now.

Changing gyms is a big deal for us because it will mean a major commute and is a very big commitment as a result of that commute. When looking at new gyms what are some good questions to ask about their competitive gymnastic programs?

• is there such a thing as a good gymnast to coach ratio?
• should I ask them about their equipment and what they do to prevent injuries?
• can I ask them their position on wearing supports in practice?

Sorry for so much rambling this is a complicated situation. I am just trying to be supportive of her and help her achieve her goal of getting to optionals but at this rate she will not get there (which I would be fine with btw).

Thanks for listening.

L

 

[bogwoppit]

Wow that is a lot.

Firstly if my dd's sports therapist said let pain be your guide, that would be clue number one. If the PT said they wanted your DD to wear certain supports in order to train that would be clue number two. THe coaches are not md's and that do not have the knowledge to tell you what is good for your dd's physical health.

Poor equipment, like springboards and floors can cause problems. SO can poor conditioning programmes and too many repetitions of skills on hard surfaces. Tumble tracks and soft tumbling can really help with overuse injuries. Chronic pain certainly would affect performance, if your wrists and ankles hurt you just will not be 100%.

The group size is large from my parental perspective, but with a great coach and multiple stations it could work very well. As a parent I would prefer to see 10 or less in a group with one coach. The mixed levels is less of an issue to me.

CHanging gyms is always an option, you just have to weight up the additional costs in time, gas, milage on your car, you being away from home and family more etc. IS it worth it.

If you are considering a certain gym go watch some training, check how big their class sizes are, check their results online and try to see how many injured gymmies they have. Talk to parents. Feel free to have your dd evaluated, but be prepared for the fact that they may not let her compete as a L5 yet. Every gym has it's own standards. There are many girls on the CB with L7 skills who compete L5 as that is the way their gym operates. There are also girls here who just have L5 skills and wil uptrain all summer in the hope that they are redy for fall and L6.

I get that loving gym is important, but so is quality of life and pain management, As a parent of two girls who have struggled with injuries, both have now left the sport. I commuted four times a week a 80 minute round trip, gym becomes your life. The question is, is it the life you really want. If yes is the answer then go ahead and start the research.

 

[Gymnasticgrandkids]

I'm with bogwoppit (by the way, what's a bogwoppit????)...anyway, I say check out the gym you are thinking of going to. Talk to the parents at that gym, have her take a trial class or two and see if she has the same issues with pain...it may very well be the equipment, or the settings on the equipment, or the teaching methods but you won't know if you don't try another gym. I would keep it "low keyed" so as not to cause an issue at her current gym, in case it doesn't work out or you change your mind. It does sound like she may not be ready for L5 or at the very least she needs to get some strength and conditioning for the added skills she needs for L5...I have not seen many gymnasts at that level needing braces and supports which would lead me to think that the training she is getting is a bit off somehow and that's why I strongly suggest you take her for a trial class at another gym. btw, how does your gym compare with (score wise) with the gym you are thinking of taking her to? This is usually a very good measure of the success of their coaches training.

 

[misshoneybee]

Thank you very much for your thoughtful responses. It is a lot to think about on many different levels (no pun intended here

I wonder if she can go back to L4? or does she have to stay at L5? The gym we are considering has decent scores. However they are building a team right now. The gym was in one suburb for awhile and then they lost their lease and had to move about 15 miles west and when they did that they lost their gymnasts. They have since moved back to their original location and bought a building so that they don't have to worry about losing a lease again.

I know one of my daughter's conditioning exercises is to run the stairs and run around the gym in bare feet on a wood floor and wood/cement stairs- that to me seems like it would cause injuries - but I am not a athletic trainer or anything. Her current floor is about 15-20 years old and she says it isn't bouncy at all. She also said her coach uses a ton of springs in the spring board - not sure what that means exactly or how that may or may not be good.

The trip for me is about 26 miles round trip. I also think that I might be able to put a carpool together which would make it easier.

She has a meet coming up in about 2 weeks (her last one - she won't qualify for state) and I almost feel like making her rest for a week and possibly not allowing her to compete until we get this sorted out.

What happens when a gymnast has injuries? Do you pull them out of practice "indefinitely" or should they go work out with the team and do what they can?

 

[mtbmom]

Can't add anything to Bog's coaching/gym advice. As for her pain:

You mentioned X-rays, etc. Has she had an MRI of any of her joints? Has she been tested for Lyme's or other systemic illnesses? Rheumatologists can look into Lyme's or other medical issues that can cause pain in joints. Has she taken any time off from gymnastics? Often rest is needed to break the cycle of inflammation.

Good luck with everything.

 

[bogwoppit]

Okay running stairs barefoot, or on hard floors, is a total no no. Send her to gym with running shoes and do not let her do the running without them. You are the parents and you pay the gym and PT bills.

Old floor less bounce, lots of springs in the springboard make it harder.

Yes she can return to a L4, ask your USAG state director how it works in your state, injury is a good reason, plus she is hardly killing the competition.

When my girls got injuries we went to a good sports therapist and followed the advice to a t, the PT would email the coach with the plan, the coach would follow it. Limited training hours, more conditioning, stretching and icing until the pain was gone and then a slow return to full training. A week, or two, off maybe exactly what your dd needs to help with her issues.

If she will not qualify at her next meet, then missing it will be no loss. It will give you a chance to weigh up her options and to get started on the PT. My oldest was great with PT, very dedicated, the youngest not so much!

 

[Gymnasticgrandkids]

I do not know how it is in other states, but I've heard 2 things about Florida...first one was if they competed AA in a level, then they were that level and couldn't go back...but I have also heard that if they do not get a qualifying score then can go back so I guess it would be best to check with your state USAG to see what the rule is. As far as her conditioning, I am not any kind of expert either but running on wood/cement stairs in bare feet does not sound like it would be good for anyone...I still think the trial class sounds like a plan and 26 miles (round trip you say) is not too bad, unless the weather is bad...my daughter runs 38 miles each way every night of the week...the car is taking a beating and so is she, he he Good Luck and keep us posted.

 

[misshoneybee]

I am concerned about the running barefoot and now I am worried about what other things may or may not be happening in the gym as far as conditioning is concerned. I am going to "force" a rest period for her. As I mentioned in my original post the ONLY clue that I had that she was in pain was how bad her routines were at the last meet. I had to PULL the information out of her. I don't get a chance to watch her train - I don't always know what is going on in the gym.

We are going to visit the other gym tonite and watch the girls practice and talk to the head of their program. I happen to know that they would take her on their team (we have been doing privates their occasionally and they have been begging her to come) and perhaps they would take her now and just let her practice with the girls but not compete (their meet season ends in May - ours ends mid-march). I have some concerns now about the current gym's training practices (running wood/cement stairs and floors without shoes). I don't want to have to micro-manage her current gym. Would it be awful if I moved her now, assuming the other gym passes my inspection and they would take her now? Would would you guys do?

L

 

[GymnastJoy]

Sending you support and hugs. It is always tough as a parent to know what the right thing is for your child. I have no real advice since I have never been in your situation or switched gyms. It sounds from your posts that you have pretty much made the decision to switch gyms which very well may be the right one for your daughter. My only suggestion is to make sure that there are girls at your dd's level skill-wise so that she fits right in. As a mom, I would hate to hear that she switched gyms and was still getting frustrated and feeling like she cannot reach her goals. Her passion should take her far and she has enough natural talent to have been moved to L5. Good luck!

 

[cathiann]

You've gotten some great advice so far--glad that you're going tonight to look at the new gym and see what it's like. If your daughter really likes gymnastics and wanted to stick with it, then a change is definitely in order. Good luck!!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Okay running stairs barefoot, or on hard floors, is a total no no. Send her to gym with running shoes and do not let her do the running without them. You are the parents and you pay the gym and PT bills.

Old floor less bounce, lots of springs in the springboard make it harder.

Yes she can return to a L4, ask your USAG state director how it works in your state, injury is a good reason, plus she is hardly killing the competition.

When my girls got injuries we went to a good sports therapist and followed the advice to a t, the PT would email the coach with the plan, the coach would follow it. Limited training hours, more conditioning, stretching and icing until the pain was gone and then a slow return to full training. A week, or two, off maybe exactly what your dd needs to help with her issues.

If she will not qualify at her next meet, then missing it will be no loss. It will give you a chance to weigh up her options and to get started on the PT. My oldest was great with PT, very dedicated, the youngest not so much![/QUOTte

hey bogs...perfect 2 posts. spoken like a true coach. there is nothing to add.

 

[Monkeygirlsmom]

Bog said it perfect!

I know in the summer the girls did conditioning on the track but if no shoes (forgot them) they had to stay in the grass and do it all.

 

[Panda-girl's Mom]

My experience with my daughter last year she had wrist pain but denyed it until it got so bad that it was compressing her nerve. To diagnosis this correctly she needs an mri. If your daughter has the same thing it is from growing my daughter was the same age/level she needs to stop putting pressure on her wrist. My daughters ortho doctor put a cast on it for 5 weeks she went to pt but was able to still go to the gym and condition and do dance throughs on floor and beam. Daughter was very unhappy but chronic stress fx/ gymnast wrist can cause permenant damage to her bone growth reqioring surgery so I would not mess around with wrist pain. Daughter wears wrist quards now and wrist problems cleared up but now she has heel pain but I was told that is totally different the ortho doctor said also caused by growing but she can tumble all she wants no risk of permeantdamage .
She wears a heel cup on the floor. Both of these injuries have had a major impact on her scores, but it is beyond her control. I would not make a big deal about her scores focus on the positives and do what ever you can do to get her through this it is probally really tough on her.
As far as your worries about the gym being safe and causing these injuries I agree that running barefoot on a hard floor is just stupid. Have you adressessed your concerns with the gym. I agree switching gyms for safety reasons is a legitimate reason along with better coach gymnast ratios and equipment but switching in hopes to get better scores may not work out. How are her teammates scores if they are doing well her lower score maybe just a result of her injuries. Unfortunately these injuries just happen to some kids in this sport despite of good conditioning programs and safe gyms.

 

[misshoneybee]

You guys are the best - thank you so much for the support. We had a great visit at a new gym last night and watched the girls team work out. Based on what I saw I think my daughter would fit in nicely. I basically am looking for a happy, healthy and safe program. My daughter is a good gymnast. Is she great - sometimes. I have been so upset about this whole thing because I can't believe it took me so long to figure out what was going on in the gym (or not going on). I have to move her - it would be terrible of me to keep her there based on some additional information that she has shared with me. I put the screws to her last night and she gave me some additional information that makes the decision for me to move gyms very easy. Nothing illegal is going on in the gym at all. As I mentioned her coach is a very decent guy - I just don't agree with his methods.

L

 

[AlexsGymmyMom]

So glad that you found a program that fits for your DD and can ease your mind!! This is alot easier than permanent injuries to your DD!! Good luck at the new gym!!!

 

[Midget's Dad]

Good luck at the new gym! I think you are making the right decision, and having done the move thing I know how hard it is.

I agree with everyone above by the way. Especially the no running, or doing stairs, on concrete with barefeet. That is just asking for issues. Our bodies are made to run barefoot, but not on hard surfaces like that. And if her ankles already hurt the pounding of doing stairs is going to quickly make things worse. Stairs are a great workout for people needing to develop their ankles and calves for jumping, but done wrong they are a recipe for disaster.

 

[ZZMom]

It sounds like you have already decided to change gyms and you received a lot of good advice. I might also add a couple of things related to your daughter growing a lot and wrist and ankle pain. My older DD had both during the years she was growing the most. The wrist pain issue was resolved by her using tiger paws. I know there have been discussions about these. Some like them and some don't. Older DD would have had to quit gymnastics without them. She used them on every event except bars from the age of 10 on and had no further problems with her wrists. She also had achilles tendanitis (I don't know if this is what your daughter has in her ankles but ...) at around your daughter's age. We tried taping and heel pads, resting, icing, etc. What finally helped was stretching. The stretch that helped was her involved standing on the stairs with just her toes on the stair so that her heels were lower than her toes and really stretching the tendon. She did this a LOT and it really helped. Rest of course and follow her doctor's orders. I just wanted to give a couple of suggestions that helped my DD. Best Wishes, ZZMom

 

[my4buffaloes]

I don't like that the coach doesn't want her to wear the supports during training, that makes no sense to me. Training is hard on the body, having the supports will help her. My daughter wears a cheetah most of the time for practice, but then doesn't wear it at meets anymore. When the heel pain was bad a couple of years ago she did though. I have no idea whether old equipment would cause injuries but it doesn't seem the coach is taking injuries seriously. Good luck!
Jennifer

 

[AGM78910]

Just a quick comment:
Floors can be either spring or foam block. I know gymnasts who train on a foam block floor and they always are having knee and wrist pain because it is a stiffer floor without a lot of give.
Also on the Severs issue, the stretching advice is great. My DD has had several bouts of it and is now fully grown and has no more problems. Her scores have gone up as well.

 

[gymmomof1]

Always best to go with your instincts Hope all goes well in the transition!