For Coaches Guczoghe on Rings

[Geoffrey Taucer]

[youtube]3peT9MSiZXU[/youtube]

Anybody have any experience training this skill?

I have one guy who I think could learn it, but I'm debating whether I want to teach it to him; it seems like a Guczoghe should be much easier to learn than a Yamawaki, but it also seems like it would present a MUCH higher risk of shoulder injury.

A bit of background on the kid I'm considering teaching it to; he's 15 years old. He has strong swings, and enough shoulder flexibility to do a hanging inlocate or dislocate (he says he can feel it stretching when he does these, but it doesn't hurt too much).

So I guess I have two questions.

First, if he has enough shoulder flexibility to do hanging inlocates and dislocates with only mild stretching pain, does this also mean he can safely train the Guczoghe, or would the added force still present serious risk of shoulder injury?

Second, am I correct in assuming that the Guczoghe can be relatively easily taught as shoot to support followed by a back toss to swing?

 

[BlairBob]

I know Coach Sommer has stated he does not like the in circling rings skills for the long term effects on the shoulders. That jerk is very destructive at the bottom.

Maybe try to email JD at Stanford or Tom Meadows at Cypress Academy. That's who I would email about the skill.

It is a very cool skill though.

 

[Valentin]

A while back i was talking to this coach (forget his name), but he used to be on Bulgarian National team coaching staff in the 80's when this skill was still performed and i saw him spotting Li-Nings with his gymnasts (who by no means were ready to do the skills on their own), when i asked him why he taught them the Li-Ning (he was teaching it in a from a german hang swing on rings), he said it was a great preparation skill for Li-Nings haha which are a very versatile skill, but it also help prepare the shoulders for the Guczoghe. The way i have seen this skill being taught is the first step is backswing to support immediate backward roll to inverted pike, pump dislocate and repeat. This is a good preparation exercises for shoulders, and also to give the gymnast the orientation of the skill. Than you need to teach the second bit by spotting it on low rings. (let me try to explain haha..) You stand behind the gymnast with bent legs. So that the gymnast is laying on your legs in a tuck while holding the rings. From this position you grab the gymnast legs behind the knee (so that you can pull them into a tighter tuck). From there you lift them upward as the gymnast circle the rings out and opens up like the second bit in the skill, then you can let them go so they feel the fall out of the kickout.
Lots of Cody's on the tramp with the gymnast circling the arms around as if holding the rings to get the orientation and spatial awareness.
From what i have been told this skill should not be taught to anyone under 15. The greatest requirement aside from GOOD! swings (Giant dislocate to HS a must really to show the gymnast has enough amplitude in swing and strength to circle the rings), LOTS and LOTS of shoulder strengthening is needed. Rotator Cuff work is critical. if the skill is taught slowly, progressively, it should not a be a problem to teach. However most coaches can't handle the slow slow slow slow progression haha, and they rush, gymnast rushes, they get owned after that.

The yamawaki is definitely however the swing skill of choice for most 15 yr olds. As its soooo much easier.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

A while back i was talking to this coach (forget his name), but he used to be on Bulgarian National team coaching staff in the 80's when this skill was still performed and i saw him spotting Li-Nings with his gymnasts (who by no means were ready to do the skills on their own), when i asked him why he taught them the Li-Ning (he was teaching it in a from a german hang swing on rings), he said it was a great preparation skill for Li-Nings haha which are a very versatile skill, but it also help prepare the shoulders for the Guczoghe. The way i have seen this skill being taught is the first step is backswing to support immediate backward roll to inverted pike, pump dislocate and repeat. This is a good preparation exercises for shoulders, and also to give the gymnast the orientation of the skill. Than you need to teach the second bit by spotting it on low rings. (let me try to explain haha..) You stand behind the gymnast with bent legs. So that the gymnast is laying on your legs in a tuck while holding the rings. From this position you grab the gymnast legs behind the knee (so that you can pull them into a tighter tuck). From there you lift them upward as the gymnast circle the rings out and opens up like the second bit in the skill, then you can let them go so they feel the fall out of the kickout.
Lots of Cody's on the tramp with the gymnast circling the arms around as if holding the rings to get the orientation and spatial awareness.
From what i have been told this skill should not be taught to anyone under 15. The greatest requirement aside from GOOD! swings (Giant dislocate to HS a must really to show the gymnast has enough amplitude in swing and strength to circle the rings), LOTS and LOTS of shoulder strengthening is needed. Rotator Cuff work is critical. if the skill is taught slowly, progressively, it should not a be a problem to teach. However most coaches can't handle the slow slow slow slow progression haha, and they rush, gymnast rushes, they get owned after that.

The yamawaki is definitely however the swing skill of choice for most 15 yr olds. As its soooo much easier.

Interesting; I was assuming it only required a powerful enough swing for a shoot to support, but it sounds from what you're saying like that's not enough (this kid can't do a full giant yet). I guess I'll hold off on teaching the skill for now.

I'm having trouble picturing that spot.

While we're on the subject, you say a Yamawaki is easier; how would you go about teaching it? I've been trying to figure out how to teach (not to mention how to learn) that skill for ages.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

should not do this skill unless you have straight arm giants both directions. and i mean 'lock' arm and no body shape change throughout.

 

[Valentin]

The benefit to the Yamawaki is that you don't really need giant inlocate to be able to do it. Start teaching it by teaching a straight body honma to support (if gymnast able to do with a very light spot than can move)
Than a whipit to support (not cross), forward roll to swing.
That is basically it. You can do other drills to teach the action but these are the pre-requisite skills, anything you do to teach these will greatly help the Yamawaki.

good call by Dunno about being able to do the giants with straight arms. The Guczoghy is the kind of skill you want to learn slowly, surely, perfectly, and not practice it a lot, just enough to maintain, and work into routines when you have to use it.