WAG 2017 Las Vegas invitational

[wandrewsjr]

Of course for us from other countries, top 3 is all they ever award medals to at meets.

I thought I saw they had mixed age groups in each session?

I would assume two age groups per session? Sessions are broken down to hopes comp, hopes optional, elite comp, elite opt, so there could be 10/11 and 12/13 in the hopes sessions and junior and seniors in the elite sessions. I suppose they could put all of same age group in one session(there were 3 hopes comp sessions so suppose you could have had one 10/11, one 12/13 and one mixed) but better to balance the numbers evenly and have teams get to compete together. Many of the coaches at the competition also had JO level 9's and 10's in the meet that they had to coach.

It really is not about the medals. No one brags about getting third place on beam in their junior elite compulsory session. They brag about getting THE SCORE.

 

[flipnastic]

So, maybe a stupid question...but what is "the score?" And are they qualifying to nationals? Or to be elite gymnasts? Sorry if this was already answered and I missed it!!

 

[amiandjim]

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[amiandjim]

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[Ali'sMom]

So, maybe a stupid question...but what is "the score?" And are they qualifying to nationals? Or to be elite gymnasts? Sorry if this was already answered and I missed it!!

Compulsories need a certain score to "qualify", and then they need a certain score in optionals.
Those girls who do qualify all go to the Hopes Classic ( a meet at the Ranch). From there, the top 18 girls of each age group (10-11 and 12-13) go on to the Hopes Championship that is run in conjunction with the Secret Classic.
As they get older, and move into Jr Elite and Sr Elite it;s a path to the National Team.

 

[bogwoppit]

I would assume two age groups per session? Sessions are broken down to hopes comp, hopes optional, elite comp, elite opt, so there could be 10/11 and 12/13 in the hopes sessions and junior and seniors in the elite sessions. I suppose they could put all of same age group in one session(there were 3 hopes comp sessions so suppose you could have had one 10/11, one 12/13 and one mixed) but better to balance the numbers evenly and have teams get to compete together. Many of the coaches at the competition also had JO level 9's and 10's in the meet that they had to coach.

It really is not about the medals. No one brags about getting third place on beam in their junior elite compulsory session. They brag about getting THE SCORE.

Just so different from the way our elite qualifiers are run, always a learning experience.

By the way I have seen medal brags on IG and FB. Not giving any names, but they are there.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Just so different from the way our elite qualifiers are run, always a learning experience.

By the way I have seen medal brags on IG and FB. Not giving any names, but they are there.

Yes, because we don't have a true full competitive track for the up and coming elite gymnasts, they are often competing JO simultaneously, everything is a little different. Things certainly seem to be changing though. Never seen Hopes numbers like this before so it may be changing.

And I don't doubt you've seen bragging about medals. But that is not the reason the sessions would be planned the way they are. Mostly just a product of gymnasts and families who are new to the "elite" experience and only know of JO, where placing in meets would be the goal. Most know getting the qualifying score to go to classics is a much bigger accomplishment than placing, and the ultimate goal.

 

[bogwoppit]

Yes, because we don't have a true full competitive track for the up and coming elite gymnasts, they are often competing JO simultaneously, everything is a little different. Things certainly seem to be changing though. Never seen Hopes numbers like this before so it may be changing.

Totally agree, clearly the system is going through an evolution. It will be interesting to see what the system becomes. The huge numbers are very interesting.

I recall Liukin said he want many more girls on this path, I guess we are seeing the start of this.

 

[tomtnt]

do you know how the age works? Is it the age at the time of classic or your age at the time of the qualification meet?

also, if you don't get a qualifying scores on the compulsory routine, are you not allowed to show your optional routine for a score?

 

[Seeker]

Age is generally the gymnasts' age on the last day of the calendar year.

 

[GYM0M]

do you know how the age works? Is it the age at the time of classic or your age at the time of the qualification meet?

also, if you don't get a qualifying scores on the compulsory routine, are you not allowed to show your optional routine for a score?

The gymnast's age for this year is the age the gymnast will be on Dec. 31st, 2017.

A gymnast does not have to have a qualifying compulsory score before trying to get a qualifying optional score, or vice versa. Both qualifying scores have to be achieved to advance to the HOPES Classic, though.

 

[Gymmamabear]

So can any gym put their gymnast in a HOPES meet? I mean is there any pre-qualification for them competing in it? With the numbers getting bigger I wonder if they will make a minimum of something? I know they have to know the compulsory routine and you wouldn't want them to go in and fail on it, but what is to stop say some huge gym from teaching all their girls it and taking them all to HOPES? Just curious and hypothetical - I don't own a gym or anything! ;-)

 

[coachmolly]

So can any gym put their gymnast in a HOPES meet? I mean is there any pre-qualification for them competing in it? With the numbers getting bigger I wonder if they will make a minimum of something? I know they have to know the compulsory routine and you wouldn't want them to go in and fail on it, but what is to stop say some huge gym from teaching all their girls it and taking them all to HOPES? Just curious and hypothetical - I don't own a gym or anything! ;-)

Time and money. The per gymnast time commitment and cost is massive for kids pursuing the elite path. So while I could see a gym taking a small group of kids and teaching them the elite compulsory routines just to test the waters, there would really be no benefit to doing it with all of your kids. For HOPEs, one of the big perks is the invitation to developmental training camps (Developmental Invite Camp, Developmental Camp) where coaches are given tools and suggestions as to how to properly take their athletes to the next level and access to some of the best technical coaches in the country. You aren't going to get that invite if you bring a whole slew of mediocre performing kids to a HOPEs meet "just for fun." And really, the coaches are going to benefit from the camps whether they have 1 kid or 10 kids heading to camps.

 

[Jenny]

Also, they didn't have flight a and b with 2 sets of equipment. One group on each event and one set of equipment. Each rotation had about 7 kids (I assume some scratches). It was traditional format where they warmed up all 4 events and then competed all 4 with just a 30 second touch. My dd says it's basically doing a cold routine, especially on beam and floor. Teams don't get to choose what order kids compete, it's predetermined like regionals or nationals for JO. And like someone else said, scores take longer to come up.

This is how our elite track kids compete from the age of 7-8 . Warm up on all pieces and then a touch warm up. Actually a longer warm up than they get at a lower level of competition where they might get a minute on beam each (timed) and less on bars and vault typically, group warm up on floor. And our kids don't chose the order in any comps, they compete in the order they are listed on the schedule and the first gymnast drops to the end of the group for the next piece. Scores can take a while as we usually have 4 judges on each piece.

 

[LemonLime]

So can any gym put their gymnast in a HOPES meet? I mean is there any pre-qualification for them competing in it? With the numbers getting bigger I wonder if they will make a minimum of something? I know they have to know the compulsory routine and you wouldn't want them to go in and fail on it, but what is to stop say some huge gym from teaching all their girls it and taking them all to HOPES? Just curious and hypothetical - I don't own a gym or anything! ;-)

Hopes qualification meets are awarded by the USAG after a bidding process. Anyone may enter qualification meets. Only gymnasts meeting the minimum score for their age at a qualifier may advance to the next level of Hopes meet.

 

[LemonLime]

"The routines and judging are THAT different?? so a JO National AA might not do well in 12/13 hopes or Jr Elite?"

I know someone else already answered this, but there is zero correlation between a JO AA and a Hopes or Elite athlete (FIG). Execution in FIG is 3/4 of the score. FIG athletes need 8 elements, 3 of which are dance skills. FIG athletes have different required elements or essential connections which JO athletes may never learn (3 C/D dance skills, reverse grips on bars, uphills on bars, flight connections on bars, indirect CD acro on fx).

At the same time, both FIG and JO athletes may not focus on what they need for NCAA. "E" bar releases and dismounts ... CC direct dance on fx ... triple series or E on beam ... multiple Ds on fx ... omitting blind landing skills ... something other than yurchenko fulls ...

 

[Jenny]

Our system all heads its way towards FIG from the start (using modified requirements right from the beginning) so even gymnasts who start outside our elite system can compete FIG as they are all working towards the skills and requirements. There are many FIG competitions which are open entry here . You have to pass compulsory grades to compete in the British Championships proper but all of our other FIG competitions like the English , Challenge cup and invitationals are open entry.

At level 7 your system looks very comparable to our FIG geared system but from level 8 and up it looks very different. So I guess that is where the tracks diverge more.

 

[lhmom]

Thought I would mention that scores for this past weekend's Las Vegas elite qualifier are on the usagym.org website. Link Removed