Parents Specialization And Overuse Injuries In Gymnastics

[JBS]

I’m not sure if most people know… but USA Gymnastics has some great webinars that are available to the general public. The above is the recording of a webinar that went over early sports specialization and overuse injuries by Dr Emily Sweeney.

WEBINAR RECORDING​

PDF DOCUMENT​

Dr. Sweeney also provided a great PDF document to accompany the slide show which you can see below…

Link Removed

DISCUSSION​

I’d love to start a discussion on this and see what everyone’s thought are. This is a huge topic in gymnastics and I know there are coaches / programs out there that have unique and modern ways to do things and are still able to operate on a high level in the sport.

I’m going to add my thoughts to this later on (and I have a bunch)… however… let’s get some conversation going about this first. Be sure to watch the webinar recording or view the PDF first.

Let us know your ideas… experiences… and opinions on this topic in the discussion thread below.

Here is the link to the blog article...

Link Removed

 

[JBS]

​

Let us know your ideas… experiences… and opinions on early specialization.​

 

[gym_dad32608]

Thanks for sharing this, interesting stuff, and I am sure many have very strong OPINIONS about this topic. A couple of critical points for me on this presentation (reviewed the slide deck not the video, TLDR):

• Starts the presentation by clearly stating the evidence is inconclusive whether early sport specialization (ESS) is good or bad. Stating we don't know and evidence is neither for nor against it.
• But then in recommendations, recommends against ESS? I guess I would like to see more data supporting that position. Of course its reasonable to think if one starts training early and is training with poor techniques the probability of injury or other harm increases, but isnt that true if you just started anyway and training with poor technique?
• The tables in the presentation are not very strong, there are significant issues with qualitative statistics and you only have an N of approx 100 using self-reported data that reduce its credibility.
• Its unfortunate, but most of the studies cited and used as evidence in this presentation are almost 10 years old. Another limitation. It would be great, as the speaker suggests if we could get more longitudinal studies to follow these children.

Despite my critical points, over-training (as opposed to ESS) is definitely an issue. I do wish my current gym would incorporate some of these new training techniques that reduce the numbers that some of the girls do, especially training elite/L10 skills. I think I have heard good things about shiftmovementscience and some of the techniques that they employ. Definitely fall in the camp of training smart versus training more.

Which kinda brings up another question, how do you get your gym to change some of their training approaches when you are a parent? Sure I can share stuff with them, but not sure it will move them to change anything.

 

[JBS]

@gym_dad32608 I really think that this is one of the biggest things that needs to be looked at in gymnastics. The problem is figuring out the way to do it with the bold and underlined part below...

I’d love to start a discussion on this and see what everyone’s thought are. This is a huge topic in gymnastics and I know there are coaches / programs out there that have unique and modern ways to do things and are still able to operate on a high level in the sport.

Most examples are currently not showing the data that I know will eventually be found. For example... from the packet... "Recent study of former NCAA gymnasts: mean age of specialization was 8".

A coach would look at that data and traditionally say... "Ok... so my athletes that specialize early have a better shot at NCAA gymnastics."

I am basically interested in programs operating on a high level (L9/10 at 37.0+) with modern hours (not stating my "modern hours" yet). I am also looking at ways to "incorporate cross-training into gymnastics".

There are so many examples of programs (in gymnastics) that don't really specialize... don't do high hours... and don't really have high level athletes... I'm not really looking at how to get this done... as it's easy.

 

[JBS]

There are so many examples of programs (in gymnastics) that don't really specialize... don't do high hours... and don't really have high level athletes... I'm not really looking at how to get this done... as it's easy.

Please do not think that the overall purpose of the thread is just for my opinions and thoughts either though. Please post away on anything that pertains to this entire subject and video.

 

[cmg]

I thought that because gymnastics created overall conditioning and involved strength, flexibility, and technique in 4 or 6 different events that it was not considered a sport that you needed to worry about specializing too early? Most other sports do not have the variety that gymnastics does. I never really worried about my kid starting at a young age (albeit late for some athletes) although she did do summer track and winter basketball for a while when she was just starting gymnastics, I always thought gymnastics kind of took care of all aspects of human performance.

 

[FifiMum]

I’m not sure if most people know… but USA Gymnastics has some great webinars that are available to the general public. The above is the recording of a webinar that went over early sports specialization and overuse injuries by Dr Emily Sweeney.

WEBINAR RECORDING​

PDF DOCUMENT​

Dr. Sweeney also provided a great PDF document to accompany the slide show which you can see below…

Link Removed

DISCUSSION​

I’d love to start a discussion on this and see what everyone’s thought are. This is a huge topic in gymnastics and I know there are coaches / programs out there that have unique and modern ways to do things and are still able to operate on a high level in the sport.

I’m going to add my thoughts to this later on (and I have a bunch)… however… let’s get some conversation going about this first. Be sure to watch the webinar recording or view the PDF first.

Let us know your ideas… experiences… and opinions on this topic in the discussion thread below.

Here is the link to the blog article...

Link Removed

Thanks this is interesting. My 7-year-old is doing about 5 hours structured sport a week (3 of those gymnastics) and not counting PE at school, but I hadn't found anything much about age/ hours per week of structured exercise. The 'no more hours a week than age in years' is helpful esp as he grows in such big spurts but also has so much energy to burn. It's also great to see the mental health aspect being considered (which I guess is more about performance and restrictions in social interaction as I'm pretty sure the positive effects of sport are well understood already) and the possible effect on puberty.

 

[JBS]

Sorry... still haven't had time to post my thoughts on this.

Have others taken the time to watch the webcast?

 

[cmg]

In my mind early specialization and over training are two very different issues. I suspect most gyms have a combination of both issues going on at the same time. We have been at a low hour gym and frankly the gym has not produced a lot of high-level gymnasts, but I believe that was due more to inadequate coaching than the number of hours. We don't have a lot of choices in our town, so we never changed gyms. I love the coach we have now, and this is my daughter's last year so that is good. I will also say that I am not sure our gym has had any less injuries than other gyms that train more hours. I did watch the youtube and feel that athletes, especially female got into the "red triangle" area that the speaker talked about. I don't think most coaches have the capacity to deal with these issues. I also looked up shift movement and to me that looks like it has a lot of potential for reducing injuries, but it will take some time to get data from it. If you are injured, you can't train and, in any sport, you need consistent training to succeed. Not rocket science. I feel like most gymnasts have some little injuries all the time and then every once in a while, they get the big one that needs surgery. I hear it all the time watching college meets as the announcers say "She (specific gymnast getting ready for her routine) has come back from two Achilles/knee/elbow surgeries, what determination to stay with the sport." I think everyone on here knows how hard gymnastics is, and the determination to get to a high level. I think most gymnasts have had some type of serious injury at the higher levels. If you can figure out how to prevent the serious injury, now that would be gold.

 

[JPC13]

I thought that because gymnastics created overall conditioning and involved strength, flexibility, and technique in 4 or 6 different events that it was not considered a sport that you needed to worry about specializing too early? Most other sports do not have the variety that gymnastics does. I never really worried about my kid starting at a young age (albeit late for some athletes) although she did do summer track and winter basketball for a while when she was just starting gymnastics, I always thought gymnastics kind of took care of all aspects of human performance.

This is a good point. As far as I understand it, the issues around early specialization are (1) over training specific body parts (e.g., a kid that throws 10,000 pitches a year at 8 is going to ruin his shoulder by 20) and (2) the lack of general coordination that comes from doing multiple things.

Over training in gymnastics is obviously an issue, but IMO bars, floor, and vault might as well be totally different sports. Sure, some of the core body shapes are common, so you might get a repetitive use injury from snapping from "C" to "hollow" a million times a year, but that's a whole body movement rather than a single joint as in pitching. And since gymnasts do so many different kinds of things, I can't imagine that they're not enjoying the benefit of building generalized coordination.

As an aside, Jim Harbaugh (UM Football Coach) prioritizes recruiting multi sport athletes due to their supposed increased coordination and the fact that they haven't worn out their bodies yet.

 

[Pokitren]

This is a good point. As far as I understand it, the issues around early specialization are (1) over training specific body parts (e.g., a kid that throws 10,000 pitches a year at 8 is going to ruin his shoulder by 20) and (2) the lack of general coordination that comes from doing multiple things.

Over training in gymnastics is obviously an issue, but IMO bars, floor, and vault might as well be totally different sports. Sure, some of the core body shapes are common, so you might get a repetitive use injury from snapping from "C" to "hollow" a million times a year, but that's a whole body movement rather than a single joint as in pitching. And since gymnasts do so many different kinds of things, I can't imagine that they're not enjoying the benefit of building generalized coordination.

As an aside, Jim Harbaugh (UM Football Coach) prioritizes recruiting multi sport athletes due to their supposed increased coordination and the fact that they haven't worn out their bodies yet.

I can't imagine a kid making 10,000 pitches at 8 years old.
But I would agree that developing the whole body is better than developing just one muscle group. Jim Harbaugh seems to have a great understanding of physiological processes.

 

[JPC13]

I can't imagine a kid making 10,000 pitches at 8 years old.
But I would agree that developing the whole body is better than developing just one muscle group. Jim Harbaugh seems to have a great understanding of physiological processes.

It was an extreme example. Another one would be practicing thousands of free shots in soccer. I’ve heard of many women developing hip issues from asymmetric repetitive use activities like that.

 

[JBS]

Over training in gymnastics is obviously an issue, but IMO bars, floor, and vault might as well be totally different sports. Sure, some of the core body shapes are common, so you might get a repetitive use injury from snapping from "C" to "hollow" a million times a year, but that's a whole body movement rather than a single joint as in pitching. And since gymnasts do so many different kinds of things, I can't imagine that they're not enjoying the benefit of building generalized coordination.

Yes and no... pitching is definitely a whole body movement. While pitchers may develop shoulder issues... elbow issues are definitely very common as well (Tommy John surgery). Whole body movements very often have an injury that shows up in only one place.

The arch to hollow and back again movement is present on all events in gymnastics. While each event in gymnastics is as different as the different subjects in school... each of those subjects in school requires something that is similar... maybe it's a computer... the space bar may get worn out quicker due to the fact that it is getting pressed in every class. Then you have the people that smack the space bar pretty hard with the thumb... their space bars wear out faster.

Bottom line... the low spine is like the space bar... any reduced thoracic mobility or shoulder flex will result in more of an angle in the low back. Improper hip angles / hamstring flex will result in more low back extension as well. Gymnasts that are too flexible can have issues as well. That low back (space bar) just keeps getting hit harder and harder.

For each of the issues above... the snapping motion becomes less of a full body movement. It is very easy to look out into a gymnastics meet and find athletes not doing the movement correctly... 50%+ are doing something wrong in that movement.

Overall... gymnastics has many many issues (mostly at the upper levels / high hours) where the sport actually develops the body very poorly and we have to constantly work things to correct it.

For example... twisting and roundoffs... we only do them one way. One of the most known things in upper level gymnastics is lead foot turn in on a Yurchenko vault. Many gymnasts just keep getting worse and worse with the foot turn in without drills / exercises to correct it. Watch high level kids from the front when they kip cast on bars... many times you will see the body weirdly pull to one side or the other.

Here is another big one... once the low spine starts having issues... then the impact / compression stuff will affect it even more... without even having the snapping motion.

Basically... the benefits of all the generalized body training in gymnastics ends very early on in competitive gymnastics. In other words... general body stuff doesn't need 20 hours per week... gymnasts hit the land of diminishing returns as far as general body coordination goes well before 20 hours per week. We develop exact and specific movements at the upper levels... movements that just as repetitive as a pitcher... we just have more of them.

 

[Pokitren]

Yes and no... pitching is definitely a whole body movement. While pitchers may develop shoulder issues... elbow issues are definitely very common as well (Tommy John surgery). Whole body movements very often have an injury that shows up in only one place.

The arch to hollow and back again movement is present on all events in gymnastics. While each event in gymnastics is as different as the different subjects in school... each of those subjects in school requires something that is similar... maybe it's a computer... the space bar may get worn out quicker due to the fact that it is getting pressed in every class. Then you have the people that smack the space bar pretty hard with the thumb... their space bars wear out faster.

Bottom line... the low spine is like the space bar... any reduced thoracic mobility or shoulder flex will result in more of an angle in the low back. Improper hip angles / hamstring flex will result in more low back extension as well. Gymnasts that are too flexible can have issues as well. That low back (space bar) just keeps getting hit harder and harder.

For each of the issues above... the snapping motion becomes less of a full body movement. It is very easy to look out into a gymnastics meet and find athletes not doing the movement correctly... 50%+ are doing something wrong in that movement.

Overall... gymnastics has many many issues (mostly at the upper levels / high hours) where the sport actually develops the body very poorly and we have to constantly work things to correct it.

For example... twisting and roundoffs... we only do them one way. One of the most known things in upper level gymnastics is lead foot turn in on a Yurchenko vault. Many gymnasts just keep getting worse and worse with the foot turn in without drills / exercises to correct it. Watch high level kids from the front when they kip cast on bars... many times you will see the body weirdly pull to one side or the other.

Here is another big one... once the low spine starts having issues... then the impact / compression stuff will affect it even more... without even having the snapping motion.

Basically... the benefits of all the generalized body training in gymnastics ends very early on in competitive gymnastics. In other words... general body stuff doesn't need 20 hours per week... gymnasts hit the land of diminishing returns as far as general body coordination goes well before 20 hours per week. We develop exact and specific movements at the upper levels... movements that just as repetitive as a pitcher... we just have more of them.

You really don't have to spend 20 hours a week developing your body. I spend about 3-4 hours a week on all my total exercises. And that's enough for me. It is much better to have the whole body developed evenly than to have one particular muscle group.
Modern sports require great sacrifices from athletes...

 

[gymnastique-centre]

Thanks for sharing this, interesting stuff, and I am sure many have very strong OPINIONS about this topic. A couple of critical points for me on this presentation (reviewed the slide deck not the video, TLDR):

• Starts the presentation by clearly stating the evidence is inconclusive whether early sport specialization (ESS) is good or bad. Stating we don't know and evidence is neither for nor against it.
• But then in recommendations, recommends against ESS? I guess I would like to see more data supporting that position. Of course its reasonable to think if one starts training early and is training with poor techniques the probability of injury or other harm increases, but isnt that true if you just started anyway and training with poor technique?
• The tables in the presentation are not very strong, there are significant issues with qualitative statistics and you only have an N of approx 100 using self-reported data that reduce its credibility.
• Its unfortunate, but most of the studies cited and used as evidence in this presentation are almost 10 years old. Another limitation. It would be great, as the speaker suggests if we could get more longitudinal studies to follow these children.

Despite my critical points, over-training (as opposed to ESS) is definitely an issue. I do wish my current gym would incorporate some of these new training techniques that reduce the numbers that some of the girls do, especially training elite/L10 skills. I think I have heard good things about shiftmovementscience and some of the techniques that they employ. Definitely fall in the camp of training smart versus training more.

Which kinda brings up another question, how do you get your gym to change some of their training approaches when you are a parent? Sure I can share stuff with them, but not sure it will move them to change anything.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

, I always thought gymnastics kind of took care of all aspects of human performance.

Not endurance type activities, specifically thinking running track events

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Regarding protection from injuries. I think Tiger Paws early should be the norm. And possibly ankle support as well.

If I knew then what I know know. My daughter would been in Tiger Paws from at least level 4